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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
06-14-2009, 01:28 AM
  #26
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
That thread gave me all the more reason to believe that Flapjack knows nothing about hockey. As if I needed it....

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:13 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
That thread gave me all the more reason to believe that Flapjack knows nothing about hockey. As if I needed it....
He's just a troll, and a fairly uninteresting one at that since he lacks the insight to really be able to work an angle properly. He has moderators on his bum now, though, so he'll go through periods of hiding.

As for the original proposal, its not as bad as some of the people here have made it sound. Whether it is fair or not depends a great deal on some things we don't really know - is Byfuglien going to continue the development he showed in the playoffs, did Versteeg play over his head first half of the season, and can Barker learn how to play defense?

Because of how many questions there are, I doubt the trade could be considered. The Hawks will insist on their version, the Bruins would insist on the played down version, and the talks go nowhere.

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06-14-2009, 11:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
He's just a troll, and a fairly uninteresting one at that since he lacks the insight to really be able to work an angle properly. He has moderators on his bum now, though, so he'll go through periods of hiding.

As for the original proposal, its not as bad as some of the people here have made it sound. Whether it is fair or not depends a great deal on some things we don't really know - is Byfuglien going to continue the development he showed in the playoffs, did Versteeg play over his head first half of the season, and can Barker learn how to play defense?

Because of how many questions there are, I doubt the trade could be considered. The Hawks will insist on their version, the Bruins would insist on the played down version, and the talks go nowhere.
Pretty much right on. This deal would be a huge gamble for both teams. If Buff, Barker and Versteeg are who they looked like (to paraphrase Denny Green) then that's a lot to give up. If they aren't, then Boston just dealt the best young scorer they've had in a generation.

Basically this deal would probably get 1 of the 2 GMs fired w/in 2 years.

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:23 AM
  #29
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This is an interesting proposal, and it seems pretty fair value-wise. Ference is rock-solid when healthy, and the Hawks might see Barker as a luxury since they can't move Campbell. Sobotka is a good player, and I think he could make a great third line centre.

Its a bit murkier for the Bruins, but the attraction is obviously in getting a puck mover in Barker, along with a cheaper replacement for Kessel in Versteeg. Byfuglien has a pricy contract, but he'd fit right in with Boston, and the salaries have to equal out for both teams.

Personally, if I was Boston I'd focus on resigning Kessel. This is a deal I'd make from the Hawks perspective.

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Old
06-14-2009, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Kessel's awesome, but we've been fleeced before by the Bruins (I'm talking about Phil Esposito) so Versteeg is a small bit of payback and that's a no to this trade as well. Unless you take Campbell over Barker, then yeah fo sho.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bring Back GLR View Post
Kessel's awesome, but we've been fleeced before by the Bruins (I'm talking about Phil Esposito) so Versteeg is a small bit of payback and that's a no to this trade as well. Unless you take Campbell over Barker, then yeah fo sho.
Barker is the center piece of the deal, not Versteeg.

Boston is in their own cap trouble they wouldn't touch Campbell and the worst contract in the league with a 6 mile pole.

I think the biggest reason Chicago might do this is they get the Byfuglien contract off their hands for a couple expirings who wouldn't cost much to resign (Sobotka and Ference) if they wanted and allows them to clear room to resign Kane and Toews next offseason.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bring Back GLR View Post
Kessel's awesome, but we've been fleeced before by the Bruins (I'm talking about Phil Esposito) so Versteeg is a small bit of payback and that's a no to this trade as well. Unless you take Campbell over Barker, then yeah fo sho.
Well, first... Campbell is a non starter for any trade to Boston.

Second, personally, I just want Barker in a deal... Versteeg is good, but not someone the Bruins likely ask for in a trade.

Kessel for Barker, 1st rounder?

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
Barker is the center piece of the deal, not Versteeg.

Boston is in their own cap trouble they wouldn't touch Campbell and the worst contract in the league with a 6 mile pole.

I think the biggest reason Chicago might do this is they get the Byfuglien contract off their hands for a couple expirings who wouldn't cost much to resign (Sobotka and Ference) if they wanted and allows them to clear room to resign Kane and Toews next offseason.
Campbell is not nearly the worst contract in the league. The Rangers alone have 3 worse contracts. Yes Campbell is overpaid by 1-2 million, but he is a game-changing player. I know it is cool to pick on him, but it is way overdone.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Piffle View Post
Campbell is not nearly the worst contract in the league. The Rangers alone have 3 worse contracts. Yes Campbell is overpaid by 1-2 million, but he is a game-changing player. I know it is cool to pick on him, but it is way overdone.
No.

Gomez at 5 years, 7.357 cap hit. Wrong. Gomez is a highly skilled player with great leadership ability. Probably one of the top 3 captains in the league making him worth it. Also shorter than Campbell's.
Drury at 3 years, 7.050 cap hit. Once again wrong. The length here makes is key. Much more tradable contract than Campbell's even though I wouldn't want either.
Redden at 5 years, 6.500 cap hit. Alright, this is equally as bad as Campbell's.

Redden's contract may equal Campbell's but Drury's and Gomez's aren't even CLOSE to being as bad as Campbell's contract.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Pretty much right on. This deal would be a huge gamble for both teams. If Buff, Barker and Versteeg are who they looked like (to paraphrase Denny Green) then that's a lot to give up. If they aren't, then Boston just dealt the best young scorer they've had in a generation.

Basically this deal would probably get 1 of the 2 GMs fired w/in 2 years.
A guy who scored 19 and 36 goals is the best young scorer you've had in a generation?

Jason Allison was alot more impressive in his young days with Bruins. That Joe Thorton guy was also better! Sergei Samsonov was also very impressive with B's!

Kessel is getting a bit overated around here!

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:58 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
No.

Gomez at 5 years, 7.357 cap hit. Wrong. Gomez is a highly skilled player with great leadership ability. Probably one of the top 3 captains in the league making him worth it. Also shorter than Campbell's.
Drury at 3 years, 7.050 cap hit. Once again wrong. The length here makes is key. Much more tradable contract than Campbell's even though I wouldn't want either.
Redden at 5 years, 6.500 cap hit. Alright, this is equally as bad as Campbell's.

Redden's contract may equal Campbell's but Drury's and Gomez's aren't even CLOSE to being as bad as Campbell's contract.
Gomez top 3 Captain??????????????????

Brian Campbell a defenseman had almost as many points as each of those centers. You dont see anything wrong with that? And last I looked Rangers fans want both of them gone! It seemed after every game this year Rangers fans went on and on in there threads about Gomez and Drury being worthless.

Redden's contract is just horrid. Doesn't compare to anyone else in league

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Old
06-14-2009, 04:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
A guy who scored 19 and 36 goals is the best young scorer you've had in a generation?

Jason Allison was alot more impressive in his young days with Bruins. That Joe Thorton guy was also better! Sergei Samsonov was also very impressive with B's!

Kessel is getting a bit overated around here!
No Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker are.

Kessel scored 36 in 70 games while having to battle through mono and he scored 42 in 82 when you include the playoffs. He is the best scorer we have had since Rick Middleton in the 80s.

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Old
06-14-2009, 04:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
A guy who scored 19 and 36 goals is the best young scorer you've had in a generation?

Jason Allison was alot more impressive in his young days with Bruins. That Joe Thorton guy was also better! Sergei Samsonov was also very impressive with B's!

Kessel is getting a bit overated around here!
Joe Thornton's 1st 3 years in the league: 42 goals while getting more pp time

Kessel's 1st 3 years in the league: 66 goals

Don't get me wrong, Joe looked to be a much better all around player than Kessel has, but on pure goal scoring, Kessel gets the nod.

Also, Allison was older when he got to the Bruins than Kessel is now. When Allison was Phil's age he had a whopping 2 goals in the NHL for his career.

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Old
06-14-2009, 05:32 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Joe Thornton's 1st 3 years in the league: 42 goals while getting more pp time

Kessel's 1st 3 years in the league: 66 goals

Don't get me wrong, Joe looked to be a much better all around player than Kessel has, but on pure goal scoring, Kessel gets the nod.

Also, Allison was older when he got to the Bruins than Kessel is now. When Allison was Phil's age he had a whopping 2 goals in the NHL for his career.
Joe Thornton started NHL as a young 18 yr old! So you cant really compare his 1st season with Kessel's. Going by age Jumbo Joe looked better

Thornton at 19 16 G , 25 A 41pts
Thornton at 20 23 G , 37 A 60pts
Thornton at 21 37 G , 34 A 71pts

Kessel at 19 11 G , 18 A 29 pts
Kessel at 20 19 G , 18 A 37 pts
Kessel at 21 36 G , 24 A 60 pts

Allison at 22 had an amazing yr for Bruins. We shall see if Kessel can duplicate that next yr.

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Old
06-14-2009, 05:35 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Joe Thornton started NHL as a young 18 yr old! So you cant really compare his 1st season with Kessel's. Going by age Jumbo Joe looked better
Going by what you see, Joe was never the goal scorer Kessel was.

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06-14-2009, 05:58 PM
  #41
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Through the age of 21 goals per game (reg. & playoff)

Phil: .316
Joe: .268

Ok that might not be fair to Joe since he had 55 games as an 18 year old, while Phil was in college as an 18 year old, but if you discount that year, than in Joe's 19 year old year he'd already had a taste of the NHL and gotten a chance to get acclimated. That certainly has to be accounted for as well.

In Joe's next 3 years after that 37 goal season he averaged 27 goals. I would think Phil will be likely to surpass that average. Thus I'll stand by my statement.

In re Samsonov and Allison: Sergei has never scored 30 goals, never mind 36, and Allison was 25 before he matched Phil's goals at 21.

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06-14-2009, 06:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Say Versteeg gets $10m and Kessel $675k, how about then?You're still looking to take three important pieces of our team and give back one of yours. If you like those three guys so much, why don't you just buy a Hawks jersey and cheer for them there?
..cuzz thats gonna happen

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:42 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
No Kris Versteeg and Cam Barker are.

Kessel scored 36 in 70 games while having to battle through mono and he scored 42 in 82 when you include the playoffs. He is the best scorer we have had since Rick Middleton in the 80s.
Hmmmm.......What about Cam Neely?

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06-15-2009, 08:45 AM
  #44
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how bout bochenski for versteeg






Ouch lol

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Old
06-15-2009, 09:29 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
A guy who scored 19 and 36 goals is the best young scorer you've had in a generation?

Jason Allison was alot more impressive in his young days with Bruins. That Joe Thorton guy was also better! Sergei Samsonov was also very impressive with B's!

Kessel is getting a bit overated around here!
Do you even know what you're talking about?

Kessel and Thornton's development curve have been pretty much identical. Both joined the league directly after their draft year, so your argument that Thornton started a year earlier isn't valid. Both started when they could, and both players experience was similar (depending on how you think University hockey compares to the OHL you may even think Thornton had a slight advantage).

Now aside from that, Hawks fans are right to be excited about Versteeg. I don't think this deal really works from either teams perspective. Boston gives up the best player in the deal and doesn't manage to dump cap... Chicago gives up a lot of potential that fit well with their team as a supporting cast (can they afford another big contract with Kane and Toews needing to renew soon)?


Last edited by Kaoz: 06-15-2009 at 09:35 AM.
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Old
06-15-2009, 02:49 PM
  #46
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Hmmmm.......What about Cam Neely?
I think Kessel is more of a natural goal-scorer than Neely.

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06-15-2009, 03:51 PM
  #47
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I think Kessel is more of a natural goal-scorer than Neely.
Give me your Bruins fan membership card.

*snip*

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:01 PM
  #48
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I think Kessel is more of a natural goal-scorer than Neely.
Now that is just dumb.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:03 PM
  #49
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Hmmmm.......What about Cam Neely?
While I said scorer, I meant pure goal scorer. Cam Neely was a pure goal scorer and a monster on the ice while his physical and defensive game.

Kessel compares much better to Nifty than Neely. That's what I meant by the comparison.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:04 PM
  #50
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Give me your Bruins fan membership card.

*snip*
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Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
Now that is just dumb.


Better?

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