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Affordable wingers for Pittsburgh

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Old
06-13-2009, 08:21 PM
  #51
pensown
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I think Shero is going to get some pretty good offers for Staal because of his play in games 6 and 7. I can see a Jack Johnson+ for Staal.

I would love to see a Luke Schenn for Staal and a 2nd this would add grit, 3 million in cap, and would fill in for one of our 3 UFA defensemen.

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06-13-2009, 08:28 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
Having said that, if agreements cannot be reached, I could see the Penguins looking at LaRose, Bertuzzi, or maybe Dvorak. Or they might promote Talbot or Kennedy to the top-6. Gonna be another lean year on the wings in Pittsburgh.
Both of those players you won't get for under a mill. Well, there's a chance for Bertuzzi, but the season LaRose just had, he's getting top coin somewhere.

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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
$46.8 million committed to 14 players says that the Penguins can't afford any more $2million+ wingers without clearing cap space. Assuming the same cap as last year, and $1million in cushion, thats $9million to sign 9 players. Generally you don't get full time NHLers for less than 750k so attempting to add players like Guerin or Fedotenko without subtracting really isn't an option.
Lies, Pittsburgh doesn't need to trade anyone to open up cap space. Don't you read what pens fans write in every trade thread dealing with their team ????

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06-13-2009, 09:13 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pensown View Post
I think Shero is going to get some pretty good offers for Staal because of his play in games 6 and 7. I can see a Jack Johnson+ for Staal.

I would love to see a Luke Schenn for Staal and a 2nd this would add grit, 3 million in cap, and would fill in for one of our 3 UFA defensemen.
Johnson for Staal close to straight up would problably be a pretty fair deal if a contract with Johnson is agreed to. The problem is that he'll cost near $4million and therefore does not help Pittsburgh's cap situation in any way shape or form.

A guy like Schenn cannot be had for Staal. He's too valuable to his current team for the Leafs to trade him for a guy is only a hope to become a top line player.

The offers for Staal aren't going to be a superior player coming back -- that kind of deal wouldn't make sense for anyone because the penguins need cheap talent. It'll be an inferior player or two to help give the penguins depth.

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06-13-2009, 09:16 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
I think Shero is going to get some pretty good offers for Staal because of his play in games 6 and 7. I can see a Jack Johnson+ for Staal.

I would love to see a Luke Schenn for Staal and a 2nd this would add grit, 3 million in cap, and would fill in for one of our 3 UFA defensemen.
No way the Leafs give up Schenn he is untouchable.

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06-13-2009, 10:10 PM
  #55
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Someone that wouldn't cost you a lot to obtain and could turn out really well:

Marc-Antoine Pouliot from Edmonton

He and Crosby were linemates in Rimouski and had great chemistry. We picked him 22nd overall and he just has not been doing it for us.

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06-13-2009, 10:51 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DekeShot View Post
Eh, the talent is there but his list of injuries is scary, not to mention he's small-ish and on the last year of his deal. I think Shero's finally realized that his top 6 needs to be composed of guys who can contribute beyond the score sheet, while providing some physicality and size to open things up for Crosby and Malkin. Svatos' injury history:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Marek_Svatos
Unfortunately that's probably the only way to get a guy with Svatos' talent at that kind of salary rate and trade cost. With Malkin or Crosby centering him, it could be pretty awesome. Svatos can flat score.

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06-13-2009, 10:57 PM
  #57
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Lupul would be very effective with Malkin or Crosby drawing all of the attention.

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06-14-2009, 12:02 AM
  #58
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Lupul would be very effective with Malkin or Crosby drawing all of the attention.
I'd rather see Philly suffer with him and that contract for the next several years.

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06-14-2009, 12:05 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
I'm gonna say Max Afinogenov could be a great addition to the Pens. I could see him having great chemistry with either Crosby or Malkin.
I highly doubt this, Afinogenov is a puck hog who also has the hockey sense of a goldfish. When you have Malkin and/or Crosby on the ice you want them to have the puck.

He's still a very good 3rd-4th line energy winger who will create chances and work very hard, he's just a liability with the puck and I think his scoring days are behind him.

I think Kotalik would be a good fit for Pittsburgh, not sure what he would cost though. Can't be that much, he's like a 25g+25a guy at his best.

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06-14-2009, 12:12 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Baylzzz View Post
Trade us for Ponikarosky???
I like the idea of Poni. A week or two ago I suggested trading:

Leafs get: Jordan Staal.

Pens get: Alexei Ponikarovsky, Matt Stajan, 2nd round pick

Gives us more depth, replaces Staal's offensive production, and Poni probably scores 30 on one of the top two lines. A lot of Maple Leafs fans seemed pretty for that.

The only problem woudl be the defense we lose from getting rid of Staal, but a Cooke-Stajan-Kennedy line sounds okay to me. Assuming we can keep Guerin and Fedotenko for approximately the same prices it could look something like this.

Kunitz-Crosby Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Fedotenko
Cooke-Stajan-Kennedy
Adams-Talbot-Dupuis(? Hoping we can dump him off on somebody else)

Not too bad I don't think. Loses a little on defense but pick up a lot on depth being able to move Talbot back to 4th line center instead of 2nd line wing. Could even let Fedotenko walk if we think Talbot is solid enough to play 2nd line becaue him and Malkin have some great chemistry. A trade like that just gives the Pens a lot more options I feel.

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06-14-2009, 12:12 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
I'm gonna say Max Afinogenov could be a great addition to the Pens. I could see him having great chemistry with either Crosby or Malkin.
Max Afinogenov is going back to Russia. No gm in the league is stupid enough to sign him. 1)he doesn't pass 2) he doesn't back check and 3)he is easily the player least likely to block a shot, get a puck out of a corner or deliver a hit in the nhl. Not the penguins model.
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
maybe lemieux can bring back kovalev for cheap...
If he couldn't do it with Jagr it won't happen with Kovalev.
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I think Guerin will take a sizable pay cut to stay in town if he doesn't retire.
Fedotenko should be re-signed, and I'd take a good look at Kotalik or trading for Svatos, as well.

Satan and Sykora will not be back.
Really? I figure Guerin will go out on top. He is 38. Thats what most players want to do. Unless they can get that last big contract.

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06-14-2009, 12:18 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by no dice View Post
Since Pittsburgh will be right up against the cap again it looks like they'll need to be bargain hunting for affordable wingers, probably veterans willing to sign a 1 year deal. This is assuming they don't bring back Sykora or Satan, though Guerin looks like he might return..

Are there any affordable UFA wingers that you can think of that Pittsburgh could bring in to fill the holes in their top 2 lines?
One whole day after winning the Cup, and already talking about next season... love it

I think that Pittsburgh has an advantage over a lot of other teams and that is that they're coming off a Cup, have a young team with (arguably) the two best centers in the game and could probably get a discount here and there. I mean, did anyone else see that Matty Cooke wanted to come to the 'Burgh because he figured they were a "winner"? Now that is *just* Cooke but I think it nicely sums up how some players might feel about coming to Pittsburgh.

They also have begun to make *some* strides to bring in young wingers to come up through the system, they still don't have a ton of depth in that regard, but they do have some. Tangradi, by all intents and purposes, sounds like he might be pretty close to NHL duty...

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06-14-2009, 12:21 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I like the idea of Poni. A week or two ago I suggested trading:

Leafs get: Jordan Staal.

Pens get: Alexei Ponikarovsky, Matt Stajan, 2nd round pick

Gives us more depth, replaces Staal's offensive production, and Poni probably scores 30 on one of the top two lines. A lot of Maple Leafs fans seemed pretty for that.

The only problem woudl be the defense we lose from getting rid of Staal, but a Cooke-Stajan-Kennedy line sounds okay to me. Assuming we can keep Guerin and Fedotenko for approximately the same prices it could look something like this.

Kunitz-Crosby Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Fedotenko
Cooke-Stajan-Kennedy
Adams-Talbot-Dupuis(? Hoping we can dump him off on somebody else)

Not too bad I don't think. Loses a little on defense but pick up a lot on depth being able to move Talbot back to 4th line center instead of 2nd line wing. Could even let Fedotenko walk if we think Talbot is solid enough to play 2nd line becaue him and Malkin have some great chemistry. A trade like that just gives the Pens a lot more options I feel.
Ponikarovsky is also a pretty solid defensive winger allowing a guy like Malkin lots of space to work...

Personally, I have a tough time believing that this is all it would take to land Staal from Pittsburgh though. Poni could walk as a UFA and Stajan will never be more than a 3rd line centre (then again thats exactly what the penguins need).

To me, this seems like too much of a no-brainer for Toronto. Poni is effectively replaced by Hagman & potentially Stalberg....Stajan replaced by a UFA like Pahlsson.....2nd round pick for a guy who might flourish as the team's first line centre.

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:26 AM
  #64
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Holy **** pens fans underrate Jordan Staal.

Honestly I do not think Stajan and Ponikarovsky are top six forwards. It's like Todd White being a top 15 scorer among centerman of Kyle Calder scoring 20 goals. They played on very bad teams that took a lot of risks offensively. They will not recreate the success they had unless they are put in that situation again.

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06-14-2009, 12:29 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Holy **** pens fans underrate Jordan Staal.

Honestly I do not think Stajan and Ponikarovsky are top six forwards. It's like Todd White being a top 15 scorer among centerman of Kyle Calder scoring 20 goals. They played on very bad teams that took a lot of risks offensively. They will not recreate the success they had unless they are put in that situation again.
I would suggest moreso that they are not top six forwards on a contending team... in a watered down NHL, they are good enough to get the job done on bottom feeders, I don't think there is any arguing that much...

Oh and I agree that Staal seems underrated here... I honestly don't think they win the Cup without him... the guy would be a #1 or #2 center on *any* other team.


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06-14-2009, 12:33 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Max Afinogenov is going back to Russia. No gm in the league is stupid enough to sign him. 1)he doesn't pass 2) he doesn't back check and 3)he is easily the player least likely to block a shot, get a puck out of a corner or deliver a hit in the nhl. Not the penguins model.
While the first point is most definitely true, Afinogenov's rap as a lazy floating player is just not true. He's a demon in the corners and works like mad when the puck is below the goal line.

Like one poster from the Sabres official site forums said, Afinogenov burns more calories in one shift than Vanek does in an entire season.

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06-14-2009, 12:35 AM
  #67
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Staal is not going anywhere unless we get a crap load in return....top prospects, picks, a guy who can play wing (who is cheap for several more years), then we can get Pahlsson for the 3rd line.

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06-14-2009, 12:35 AM
  #68
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Troy Brouwer or Jack Skille would probably be available for picks.

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06-14-2009, 12:35 AM
  #69
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So I'm just brainstorming, not necessarily saying they're realistic:

Jagr - maybe he makes his return from the KHL and takes a paycut to rejoin the Pittsburgh Penguins? Helps Sid and Malkin repeat as champs, retires and has his number retired.

Kovalev - similar scenario to Jagr, making a return to Pittsburgh for cheap.

Alexei Morozov - not realistic at all, and probably prohibitively expensive, but I'd be interested to see how he'd look in the NHL these days.

Mikael Samuelsson - soft finesse winger

Jack Skille - will he ever make Chicago?

Dominic Moore - not a winger, but maybe he could play on a wing somewhere, has a lot of energy and speed.

Maxim Afinogenov - kind of like a Satan/Sykora washed up finesse winger, maybe gets a new lease on life in Pittsburgh

Jonathan Cheechoo - Maybe San Jose is going to tear it up. What is his cap hit?

Ladislav Nagy - will he come back to the NHL? Maybe not.

Alexander Radulov - maybe the Preds would be willing to trade his rights, and maybe he'd be inclined to return to such a powerful club.

Brendan Shanahan - another Bill Guerin type.

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06-14-2009, 12:39 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Holy **** pens fans underrate Jordan Staal.

Honestly I do not think Stajan and Ponikarovsky are top six forwards. It's like Todd White being a top 15 scorer among centerman of Kyle Calder scoring 20 goals. They played on very bad teams that took a lot of risks offensively. They will not recreate the success they had unless they are put in that situation again.
Well for one Stajan isn't a top 6 forward he's a third line center, but one that could do so well on a contending team. He got 50 points this year without much on the wings so i think he would be a good enough replacement for Staal. Good two-way player as well. Stajan for 2 million dollars a year is just as good as having Staal for 4 mill in my mind.

Ponikarovsky hasnt really ever played with a decent centerman. The guy can defintiely finish so I'd be interested to see what he could do with either Crosby or Malkin. I think he ends up wiht a 30-30-60 like season on a wing with Malkin.
Poni>Fedotenko/Sykora/Talbot in my mind, the three guys playing wing with Malkin this playoffs for the most part.

A trade like this would be more for cap concerns than anything. It gives the Pens more depth and if Poni walks as a UFA then the Pens get some cap room to sign another winger. It's not the world's most perfect trade but I think it's one that could alleviate some of the difficulties the Pens are feeling with the cap and depth.

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06-14-2009, 12:39 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Holy **** pens fans underrate Jordan Staal.

Honestly I do not think Stajan and Ponikarovsky are top six forwards. It's like Todd White being a top 15 scorer among centerman of Kyle Calder scoring 20 goals. They played on very bad teams that took a lot of risks offensively. They will not recreate the success they had unless they are put in that situation again.
Don't tell them that stupid! If the Pens want Poni and Stajan for Staal, I'm all for it!

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06-14-2009, 12:42 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
So I'm just brainstorming, not necessarily saying they're realistic:

Jagr - maybe he makes his return from the KHL and takes a paycut to rejoin the Pittsburgh Penguins? Helps Sid and Malkin repeat as champs, retires and has his number retired.

Kovalev - similar scenario to Jagr, making a return to Pittsburgh for cheap.

Alexei Morozov - not realistic at all, and probably prohibitively expensive, but I'd be interested to see how he'd look in the NHL these days.

Mikael Samuelsson - soft finesse winger

Jack Skille - will he ever make Chicago?

Dominic Moore - not a winger, but maybe he could play on a wing somewhere, has a lot of energy and speed.

Maxim Afinogenov - kind of like a Satan/Sykora washed up finesse winger, maybe gets a new lease on life in Pittsburgh

Jonathan Cheechoo - Maybe San Jose is going to tear it up. What is his cap hit?

Ladislav Nagy - will he come back to the NHL? Maybe not.

Alexander Radulov - maybe the Preds would be willing to trade his rights, and maybe he'd be inclined to return to such a powerful club.

Brendan Shanahan - another Bill Guerin type.
Cheechoo's cap hit is 3 mill according to hockeybuzz.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=SJ

He's also locked up until 20012 which isn't too bad. I think Afinogenov or Dominic Moore would but better but that's just my opinion.

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06-14-2009, 12:43 AM
  #73
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Old
06-14-2009, 12:44 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Well for one Stajan isn't a top 6 forward he's a third line center, but one that could do so well on a contending team. He got 50 points this year without much on the wings so i think he would be a good enough replacement for Staal. Good two-way player as well. Stajan for 2 million dollars a year is just as good as having Staal for 4 mill in my mind.

Ponikarovsky hasnt really ever played with a decent centerman. The guy can defintiely finish so I'd be interested to see what he could do with either Crosby or Malkin. I think he ends up wiht a 30-30-60 like season on a wing with Malkin.
Poni>Fedotenko/Sykora/Talbot in my mind, the three guys playing wing with Malkin this playoffs for the most part.

A trade like this would be more for cap concerns than anything. It gives the Pens more depth and if Poni walks as a UFA then the Pens get some cap room to sign another winger. It's not the world's most perfect trade but I think it's one that could alleviate some of the difficulties the Pens are feeling with the cap and depth.
Mats Sundin is not a decent center?

And like I said. It's not a positive that these guys scored lots of points on a bad team. It's a negative. They are played more than they deserve. They are part of a losing equation.

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06-14-2009, 12:45 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bullet Tooth Tony View Post
I would suggest moreso that they are not top six forwards on a contending team... in a watered down NHL, they are good enough to get the job done on bottom feeders, I don't think there is any arguing that much...

Oh and I agree that Staal seems underrated here... I honestly don't think they win the Cup without him... the guy would be a #1 or #2 center on *any* other team.
Love Jordan Staal and don't want to see the Pens get rid of him by any means, but if they do they're goign to do it for cap relief and depth, not for top prospects or high draft picks or anything. That would be the only reaosn to get rid of him. And I agree with both other points, the Pens don't win the Cup without him and he is a 1 or 2 center on any other team.

But read my above post for what I think about Stajan and Ponikarovsky.

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