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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
06-15-2009, 03:47 PM
  #51
jmwc95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
St. Louis doesn't have Berglund locked up for the next 6 years. We have him signed for another 2 years. Its ignorant to think that something may not happen within that time frame just because he isn't UFA for 6 more years.

RFA offer sheets happen. Injuries happen. Players getting better offers in Europe or Russia to play happen.

Berglund has more chance to be a Michal Handzus than a Mats Sundin.

Suffice to say both groups of fans like their homegrowns than the other teams.

I concur that this is going nowhere and should be closed.
We hold his exclusive rights for 6 more years. Nashville only holds Rinne's exclusive rights for 1 more year. If we lost Berglund to RFA, at least we would get compensation for him. The number of years until UFA is extremely important in today's salary cap era.

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06-15-2009, 04:56 PM
  #52
WalterSobchak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmwc95 View Post
We hold his exclusive rights for 6 more years. Nashville only holds Rinne's exclusive rights for 1 more year. If we lost Berglund to RFA, at least we would get compensation for him. The number of years until UFA is extremely important in today's salary cap era.
Agreed

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06-15-2009, 05:25 PM
  #53
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Some people really need to learn the difference between "trade value" and "value to the team"...

Yes, a player who is six years away from being UFA and has the potential to be a first line center does have more trade value than a goalie who is one year removed from being an UFA.

No, that has absolutely no bearing on the value a player has for his team. A team doesn't act like someone who is one year away from possibly being an UFA is gone for sure. A team isn't going to trade its friggin starter just because someone else is further away from being UFA. That's the same thinking that lets people believe picks and prospects are more important than established players and winning now, it's just stupid.

Nashville doesn't do it because they need Rinne as their starter, St.Louis doesn't do it because they have no need for Rinne as their starter, especially at the cost of a top-prospect who has shown his NHL-talent already.

Don't know why some people can't grasp that different teams have different needs, and feel the need to attack others just because they have a different opinion.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:35 PM
  #54
PocketNines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
Agreed
If you agree, then why did you suggest, by using the word "ignorant," that 6 years of RFA rights aren't vastly more valuable than 1 year and then UFA?

Berglund and Rinne are both considered by their teams lynchpins for the future. One is UFA in 1 year and the other is RFA for 6 years (if he is offersheeted big enough where the Blues wouldn't match, that is a huge return in draft picks that would be factored into the value set against the 1 Rinne year).

The people blowing this off like, oh, neither team would do the deal, it's all about value to the team, etc., are blowing past the word "vastly." I am not. I'm stopping at the word "vastly" and parking there and having a pic-a-nic.

I would also add that this principle applies across trades that have nothing to do with my team, and that it keeps coming up, and way too many posters here don't understand it the way GMs do.

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Old
06-15-2009, 08:27 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
If you agree, then why did you suggest, by using the word "ignorant," that 6 years of RFA rights aren't vastly more valuable than 1 year and then UFA?

Berglund and Rinne are both considered by their teams lynchpins for the future. One is UFA in 1 year and the other is RFA for 6 years (if he is offersheeted big enough where the Blues wouldn't match, that is a huge return in draft picks that would be factored into the value set against the 1 Rinne year).

The people blowing this off like, oh, neither team would do the deal, it's all about value to the team, etc., are blowing past the word "vastly." I am not. I'm stopping at the word "vastly" and parking there and having a pic-a-nic.

I would also add that this principle applies across trades that have nothing to do with my team, and that it keeps coming up, and way too many posters here don't understand it the way GMs do.
See the above post. Hopefully that will help break your fantasy-world mindset.

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Old
06-16-2009, 01:56 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredaDORES View Post
See the above post. Hopefully that will help break your fantasy-world mindset.
So dumb. I literally cannot believe that we are even having this whole overall dispute, it's so one sided, but whatever.

Let's stipulate Berglund and Rinne are equally of value to their own teams. You guys are all about "value to their teams," fine. They're of equal value to their teams. You're high if you think Rinne is more valuable to Nashville than Berglund is to the Blues (only EJ is more untouchable), so let's stipulate equality so that everybody stays happy.

Now, unrebutted, the goalie market is right now far more of a buyer's market than the young #1 potential franchise center market. 46 goalies played 27+ games last year and 19 of them had a .915 or better. Seventeen teams, more than half the league, has at least one of these and a couple had two.

And, unrebutted, it isn't debatable that 6 years of RFA is vastly more valuable than 1 year until UFA.

That's real world value, that real world GMs traffic in every day. We're here talking about a specific trade proposal, so specific markets and the RFA/UFA implications are always important in the real world.

Instead, you and others, without any substantive argument, want to chalk it up to a "fantasy mindset." Pffft. This is a joke. Seriously, enjoy Rinne. I am sure you'll re-sign him for cheap RFA-like prices and he'll lead you to a Cup.

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Old
06-16-2009, 02:36 AM
  #57
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rinne is so underrated in my oponion hes better than mason

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Old
06-16-2009, 02:37 AM
  #58
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Too much anger in this thread..

This trade would not happen either way because both these guys are seen as a big part of the future on each of their teams. They're both coming off very good rookie seasons, which means they're both very promising prospects, but neither of them has really proven anything yet.

I would be surprised if Rinne isn't resigned ASAP. He's the goalie of the present and at least the forseeable future for the Preds, and Rinne almost got them into the playoffs this year. He was my #4 Calder candidate, as a matter of fact. I think he might have edged Versteeg on the official ballot for #3 too if the Preds had made the playoffs.

Berglund has lots of talent, a very high ceiling and all the tools to become a great player in the future, and I see him being a big part of the Blues for many years to come.

Honestly I'm sure most teams would be very pleased to have either of these players on their team because they both look very promising right now. Of course nobody knows the future. Some players have good rookie seasons and never live up to it. I'd have to say Rinne has a higher chance of being that player, but Preds fans have to understand that's not a slight against him at all. Goalies are very iffy creatures and it's hard to think Berglund won't have at least some success with his size and talent.

For the record, I would love to have Rinne on the Blues. Just not at the price of Berglund. I'm also sure Berglund would be a great pickup for the Preds, but they don't want him at the price of Rinne. The guy who made this proposal looked at these two teams from a distance, came up with a trade that he thought made sense. And from a purely technical standpoint, it does in a lot of ways. The Blues have question marks in terms of the goaltender prospects, whereas Pickard looks fairly promising for the Preds. The Preds are lacking that true #1 center, Arnott isn't getting any younger and Berglund would probably do wonders for them. Of course as everyone has pointed out multiple times, Rinne is a UFA soon and #1 young centers are hard to come by. So you swap the first rounders and Nashville throws in a second. Rinne will probably resign, but just in case. This way the Blues get an excellent prospect who falls out of the top 10 instead of a very good prospect who falls out of the top 15, and pick up an extra 2nd in a deep draft. The Preds still get that very good prospect at #17. The reasoning behind this wasn't really bad.

However, since the OP isn't a fan of either team, he didn't realize that both of them are held very close to their team's heart unless that amazing offer comes along, and this isn't it.

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Old
06-16-2009, 04:39 AM
  #59
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Blues on the losing end of this offer.

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Old
06-16-2009, 06:43 AM
  #60
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You guys do realize that a UFA might want to test the market, don't you? That this is part of the definition of "unrestricted?" This sort of thing has actually happened before, and what ends up happening is, the team for whom he played his walk year ends up getting nothing. And those sort of players are... wait for it... significantly less valuable than players who have six more years until UFA. Am I really explaining this?

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:37 AM
  #61
jmwc95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
You guys do realize that a UFA might want to test the market, don't you? That this is part of the definition of "unrestricted?" This sort of thing has actually happened before, and what ends up happening is, the team for whom he played his walk year ends up getting nothing. And those sort of players are... wait for it... significantly less valuable than players who have six more years until UFA. Am I really explaining this?
Quit trying to explain it to them. These are the same type of people that think you would be crazy not to trade Perron and/or Pietrangelo for Pronger because Pronger is a better player than Perron right now and Pietrangelo has proven nothing at the NHL level yet. They aren't a GM and don't have to deal with the issues of team budgets, salary caps, and building a team for now AND 5 years down the road. They just think, "hey, we need a defenseman, let's go get good one," without regarding, age, salary, contract status, and the players they would give up. It's also the same people that think the Cards should be getting a 3rd basemen NOW. Last time I checked, there were really only a couple teams out of playoff contention, and I'm sure they probably don't want to give up their hopes of making the playoffs just because we want their 3rd baseman. If only other teams could be so accomodating to us.

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