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Old
06-14-2009, 11:11 AM
  #26
AKAY47
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To LA:
Scott Gomez
Nikolai Zherdev
NYR 1st

To NYR:
Jack Johnson
Jarrett Stoll
LA 2nd (35th overall)

Frolov - Kopitar - Zherdev
Brown - Gomez - Williams
Lewis - Handzus - Simmonds
Clune - Boyle - Neil (once we sign him)

Doughty - Komisarek (once we sign him)
Quincey - Greene
O'Donnell - Drewiske/Hickey

Quick
Ersberg

Frolov - Kopitar - Zherdev is a scary line..

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
I think people need to ask themselves where Darius Kasparaitis was for the last few years. It's absolutely laughable to think that these people can't see Sather sending Redden down to Hartford.
The difference is that Kaspar could no longer compete at the NHL level. He was coming off 2 offseason surgeries. He was 2 years older than Redden is now and he was in the 4th year of a 6 year/$25.5 million contract. At most he was owed another 12.75 million, less if the deal was front loaded.

Redden is in the 2nd year of a 6 year/$39 million deal. He is still owed 31 million. And he is still a capable NHL defenseman. 2 years from now, if Redden's game keeps slipping, then maybe they will send him to Hartford. He will only be owed 16.5 million then. But it isn't happening this year.

Quote:
A grievance? Yeah, and then he'll be bought out if he does. Redden sucks. He's best off retiring.
No, he won't be bought out. The Rangers aren't going to take a dead cap hit for the next 10 years.

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:52 AM
  #28
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
To LA:
Scott Gomez
Nikolai Zherdev
NYR 1st

To NYR:
Jack Johnson
Jarrett Stoll
LA 2nd (35th overall)

Frolov - Kopitar - Zherdev
Brown - Gomez - Williams
Lewis - Handzus - Simmonds
Clune - Boyle - Neil (once we sign him)

Doughty - Komisarek (once we sign him)
Quincey - Greene
O'Donnell - Drewiske/Hickey

Quick
Ersberg

Frolov - Kopitar - Zherdev is a scary line..
and where is Moller????

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:14 PM
  #29
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I think Gomez to LA is not crazy.

Thing is if the Rangers move Gomez and don't bring a C back they will have to go with Drury, Dubinsky as their top 2 and pray Anisimov is ready to contribute some pts

I know its wishfull thinking but I would be happier with them just moving Rozsival cause I don't care what anyone says he is moveable and then moving Zherdev's money and signing Gaborik and Antropov

Atleast Gomez will then have to Wingers to play with

Dubinsky, Drury, Callahan is not a horrible 2nd line...........Avery, Anisimov, Korpikoski for the 3rd
...and the Kings want a 2nd line center with a cap hit of $7M that has cracked 20 goals once in his entire career, because?

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:28 PM
  #30
Vitto79
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
...and the Kings want a 2nd line center with a cap hit of $7M that has cracked 20 goals once in his entire career, because?
Because he's still young , a cup champ and just needs a change of scenery with new wingers

the proposal above is really not that bad

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:38 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Because he's still young , a cup champ and just needs a change of scenery with new wingers

the proposal above is really not that bad
Also Gomez is a lot better player than Jack Johnson.

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by ebn View Post
Also Gomez is a lot better player than Jack Johnson.

Lets not go there.

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:45 PM
  #33
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Because he's still young , a cup champ and just needs a change of scenery with new wingers

the proposal above is really not that bad
I guess being almost 30 is young by NYR standards, but for the Kings it would suggest that he isn't going to get any better and his production doesn't warrant the $7M cap hit.

If he needs a change of scenery, I suggest you get a new paint job for MSG and spruce up the lockerroom a little. Sorry, can't help with the new wingers problem.

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Old
06-14-2009, 12:45 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
and where is Moller????
Going to NY to even out the deal.

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Old
06-14-2009, 01:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The difference is that Kaspar could no longer compete at the NHL level. He was coming off 2 offseason surgeries. He was 2 years older than Redden is now and he was in the 4th year of a 6 year/$25.5 million contract. At most he was owed another 12.75 million, less if the deal was front loaded.

Redden is in the 2nd year of a 6 year/$39 million deal. He is still owed 31 million. And he is still a capable NHL defenseman. 2 years from now, if Redden's game keeps slipping, then maybe they will send him to Hartford. He will only be owed 16.5 million then. But it isn't happening this year.

No, he won't be bought out. The Rangers aren't going to take a dead cap hit for the next 10 years.
right on one wrong on the other. it depends on the circumstance. if Kovy was a free agent and Dolan wanted him then Redden would be in Hartford. its as simple as that. its the corporate culture thats existed since Engulf and Devour (Gulf and Western) being a Ranger fan until the Isles came into existance I remember it well. it made me become an Islander fan.

They fully understand the simple concept that if you throw the most money at a player 95% will sign on the dotted line. it really doesnt matter to the corporate guys if other players see Redden or Gomez in Hartford because players never think it could happen to them they really dont. Do you think Avery for one second when he signed in Dallas thought he would be wasting in the minors 3 months later ? The Suits know that to most players they cant see beyond the green until its too late

you have to step back and realize that the problem with the Rangers is the very attitude which we're talking about here because the corporate culture leads to a flavor of the month syndrome and that doesnt aid in long term thinking or planning. So if Kovy or someone of that ilk becomes available you can bet your house your children and your right and left nut for that matter that the Rangers will do what they have to if they decide that is the current whim.

Engulf and Devour wasnt just a nickname it was a philosophy. Heck it was probably a theology to the powers that be. its why the Knicks and Rangers are in the condition they're in. I dont say this out of malice not at all. Its just what is and fans in other cities just dont understand. They are like a hungry Lion on the Veldt just waiting to devour its prey. They would send Redden to Hartford without a second thought if circumstances warranted it. They were willing to give Sundin 10M last year. just picture that hungry lion and you'll get the idea


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Old
06-14-2009, 01:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Shelle121 View Post
Lets not go there.
I don't know what you mean by that. Gomez is simply the better player. The only reason I suggested it is to get rid of a salary. You get the better player by far but you get the salary. LA Kings are also not in salary cap hell so they take on some salary. It would stop them from being below the ceilng.

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Old
06-14-2009, 01:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by backofthenet View Post
I wouldn't say that the Rangers have CAP problems, but I would say they have contract problem.

The fact that they have over 40 mil dedicated to just nine players over the next two seasons, and three of those played last season below their expectations, then that is a concern. Any reasonable person would think that.

The fact that they have six RFA's that they will need to sign and the low estimate to get all those guys in will be at about 7.5 mil total is another concern.

When all is said and done, it is likely that there will be 15 players under contract with 6 left to sign and only 9mil left...conservatively

If you are a Rangers fan and you look at the holes that need to be filled (a couple of top 6 wingers, at least one, if not two top four dmen and then look at the farm and ask who is really ready, it would be a concern to any normal thinking fan.

Can they send players down? Sure. And if they decide to spend over 30 million on Redden to pay in the minors, great. But I would not say that is rational nor a good business move. Regardless of what you think, just because the Rangers spent 70mil before does not meant they will spend that type of money in the farm. They are still business people.

So, cap problems...no. They can do it. They will ice a team for sure. Contract problems...yes. Stupid UFA signings, I think so. Again, I think most people would agree that their gambles have not paid off yet.

But at least you have Avery, right?
remember im not a Ranger fan and they are definitely not sound business practices and im a 20 year veteran of the Federal Treasury department so you dont have to tell me it makes little financial sense to most of us but let me let you in on a little Secret... They don't care

Shocking isnt it. Ive seen their corporate returns. 7M is a pittance. it means less to them than the change in your pocket does to you. cablevisions acknowledged revenues last year were 1.9 Billion. With more than 6 times that when you consider all their various subsidiaries and corporate partners


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Old
06-14-2009, 01:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ebn View Post
I don't know what you mean by that. Gomez is simply the better player. The only reason I suggested it is to get rid of a salary. You get the better player by far but you get the salary. LA Kings are also not in salary cap hell so they take on some salary. It would stop them from being below the ceilng.


Why would you compare Jack and Scott? There is nothing to compare.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:25 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
remember im not a Ranger fan and they are definitely not sound business practices and im a 20 year veteran of the Federal Treasury department so you dont have to tell me it makes little financial sense to most of us but let me let you in on a little Secret... They don't care

Shocking isnt it. Ive seen their corporate returns. 7M is a pittance. it means less to them than the change in your pocket does to you. cablevisions acknowledged revenues last year were 1.9 Billion. With more than 6 times that when you consider all their various subsidiaries and corporate partners

If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then this is a great example of why the country is in the shape it's in.

Thanks for the heads up and you are right...it is shocking, and a bit disgusting.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:32 PM
  #40
KINGS17
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
remember im not a Ranger fan and they are definitely not sound business practices and im a 20 year veteran of the Federal Treasury department so you dont have to tell me it makes little financial sense to most of us but let me let you in on a little Secret... They don't care

Shocking isnt it. Ive seen their corporate returns. 7M is a pittance. it means less to them than the change in your pocket does to you. cablevisions acknowledged revenues last year were 1.9 Billion. With more than 6 times that when you consider all their various subsidiaries and corporate partners
One more thing to consider. Each team is only allowed so many SPCs. If you have two or three guys that should be in the NHL languishing in Hartford, that's two or three contracts you have to develop your minor league players.

It's not a viable plan for the long term. Maybe you can hide Redden down there for a season, but I think it's a stretch for any more than that. It hinders the development of your prospects.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:36 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
One more thing to consider. Each team is only allowed so many SPCs. If you have two or three guys that should be in the NHL languishing in Hartford, that's two or three contracts you have to develop your minor league players.

It's not a viable plan for the long term. Maybe you can hide Redden down there for a season, but I think it's a stretch for any more than that. It hinders the development of your prospects.
Doesn't hinder the development at all because the Rangers use 85% of their AHL team roster for kids as a feeder system while a ton of other NHL clubs just let old farts play on their AHL teams to draw crowds.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by backofthenet View Post
If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then this is a great example of why the country is in the shape it's in.

Thanks for the heads up and you are right...it is shocking, and a bit disgusting.
absolutely and you draw the same conclusion I have. it is sad. sad indeed

and if you are interested they are a publicly traded company so the info is out there a simple search on google will tell you all you need to know.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:47 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
To LA:
Scott Gomez
Nikolai Zherdev
NYR 1st

To NYR:
Jack Johnson
Jarrett Stoll
LA 2nd (35th overall)
I know Gomez supposedly has 'negative value' but the Rangers get boned hard on this deal. I like Johnson, but he's nowhere near as valuable to the Rangers as Zherdev is. Sure, he has a load of potential, but so does Zherdev. That deal is basically Johnson for Zherdev, and Gomez + our 1st for Stoll and a 2nd. Lousy for the Rangers.

Sather may be as smart as a diabetic 4 year old in a candy store on July 1st, but he's not known for getting dragged over the coals in trades. If the trade isn't at least a lateral move, I seriously doubt he makes it.

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:58 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
One more thing to consider. Each team is only allowed so many SPCs. If you have two or three guys that should be in the NHL languishing in Hartford, that's two or three contracts you have to develop your minor league players.

It's not a viable plan for the long term. Maybe you can hide Redden down there for a season, but I think it's a stretch for any more than that. It hinders the development of your prospects.
youre assuming that they have a long term plan. to my view and its the reason I left to become an Islander fan at 13... They havent had a real plan since Emile Francis left. at least not one that lasted more than a year or 2. I thought they did after the lockout and was glad for my friends who are still "Blue Seaters" but alas we were all disappointed

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:18 PM
  #45
CM Lundqvist
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Last time I checked Redden did not force the Rangers to sign him....you should be more upset with Sather than Redden.
The last time I checked, I never said that.

However, I did say that in waiving Redden, it would deter past-prime, overrated players (especially one that's a bi-product of playing with Zdeno Chara) from signing with the Rangers due to fear of rotting in the minors if they fail to play well, and that's how it should be in every sport.

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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The difference is that Kaspar could no longer compete at the NHL level. He was coming off 2 offseason surgeries. He was 2 years older than Redden is now and he was in the 4th year of a 6 year/$25.5 million contract. At most he was owed another 12.75 million, less if the deal was front loaded.
Redden can still compete at the NHL level? Did you see the way he was getting beaten this year? Absolutely not. He's lucky if he's a #5 at this level.

Quote:
Redden is in the 2nd year of a 6 year/$39 million deal. He is still owed 31 million. And he is still a capable NHL defenseman. 2 years from now, if Redden's game keeps slipping, then maybe they will send him to Hartford. He will only be owed 16.5 million then. But it isn't happening this year.
Capable? Capable of getting his ass handed to him on a nightly basis, yeah...

Quote:
No, he won't be bought out. The Rangers aren't going to take a dead cap hit for the next 10 years.
I don't think he will either, he'll just get suspended without pay for refusing to report to Hartford.

The athletes have way too much power in sports these days. If you don't live up to your contract, and your gm sends you down, you shouldn't be able to block it or fight it. It's ******** that players like this that think they deserve that much money would have the nerve to attempt to justify blocking a such a move when their play has clearly declined.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Then that's what they should do. The way they make mistakes in overpayment for UFAs though I would expect Hartford's roster to be full of those mistakes in about 3 seasons.
Much in the same way the Kings cap is littered with dead money in Cloutier, McCauley and soon to be Preissing.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:28 PM
  #47
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Wow, someone is bent out of shape. Perhaps because what people are saying is true?

When you have when you have 26 million committed to 4 overpaid players (Gomez, Drury, Redden, Rozsival), you're in cap hell. What happens if the cap goes down? Sure, you can send Redden to the minors, but good luck replacing him after everyone has seen how your organization treated him.
Treated him?

Redden won't be the first player assigned to the AHL for salary cap purposes and he won't be the last player.

As long as Redden gets his money(and he will),he has nothing to complain about. Take it up with the NHLPA which agreed to a cap system.

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06-14-2009, 03:41 PM
  #48
KINGS17
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Much in the same way the Kings cap is littered with dead money in Cloutier, McCauley and soon to be Preissing.
Yeah, we're really hurting for cap space. LOL!!!

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Old
06-14-2009, 04:01 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Wow, someone is bent out of shape. Perhaps because what people are saying is true?

When you have when you have 26 million committed to 4 overpaid players (Gomez, Drury, Redden, Rozsival), you're in cap hell. What happens if the cap goes down? Sure, you can send Redden to the minors, but good luck replacing him after everyone has seen how your organization treated him.
im not bent out of shape heck im an Isles fan what gets me is how so many fans willingly choose to remain ignorant. Redden could void his contract if he is offended but the fact is he isnt in the least

your entire post is based in ignorance and the fact that you are supposed to be intelligent and capable of reason and refuse to use it thats what gets me.

read backofthenets post again. he's evaluating and reasoning and then he draws valid conclusions. Thats the sign of one who doesnt choose to remain ignorant

Thats why I wrote as i did...... it was my way of screaming Wake up

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06-14-2009, 04:10 PM
  #50
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im not bent out of shape heck im an Isles fan what gets me is how so many fans willingly choose to remain ignorant. Redden could void his contract if he is offended but the fact is he isnt in the least

your entire post is based in ignorance and the fact that you are supposed to be intelligent and capable of reason and refuse to use it thats what gets me.

read backofthenets post again. he's evaluating and reasoning and then he draws valid conclusions. Thats the sign of one who doesnt choose to remain ignorant

Thats why I wrote as i did...... it was my way of screaming Wake up
My post is based on ignorance? No, it's based on fact.

The Rangers barely made the playoffs this year, and have the same overpaid players signed for next year, in addition to having some key RFA's to sign (including Callahan, Dubinsky, and Zherdev).

Considering how they scored only 200 goals this year and don't have the money to sign a top flight UFA forward, I'd say they're in a bit of a snag, wouldn't you?

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