HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Detroit Red Wings
Notices

Red Wings Cap Tracker: 2009-10 & 2010-11

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-15-2009, 02:20 PM
  #26
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Hudler and Sammy didn't make a bit of difference in this series, even less than Hossa.

The problem is, cutting those two won't make enough room for Hossa. One of these players will have to go, and Hossa will have to get around a $5 mil cap hit:

Holmstrom
Draper & Maltby
Filppula
Cleary
Stuart
Kronwall

From that list, who is going to go to make room? I don't see any way anyone on that list moves, with the VERY improbable exception of Filppula. But then if they deal him, they're short their entire 2nd line.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 02:23 PM
  #27
Brodie
Moderator
King at the Wall
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Hudler and Sammy didn't make a bit of difference in this series, even less than Hossa.

The problem is, cutting those two won't make enough room for Hossa. One of these players will have to go, and Hossa will have to get around a $5 mil cap hit:

Holmstrom
Draper & Maltby
Filppula
Cleary
Stuart
Kronwall

From that list, who is going to go to make room? I don't see any way anyone on that list moves, with the VERY improbable exception of Filppula. But then if they deal him, they're short their entire 2nd line.
I'd hope not Cleary, Flip or Kronwall

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 02:25 PM
  #28
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I'd hope not Cleary, Flip or Kronwall
I guarantee you that Homer, Draper and Maltby aren't going anywhere.

That leaves Stuart. As bad as he was in game 7, he was their best defenseman in the Anaheim series and would be a devastating loss.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 02:35 PM
  #29
Brodie
Moderator
King at the Wall
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I guarantee you that Homer, Draper and Maltby aren't going anywhere.

That leaves Stuart. As bad as he was in game 7, he was their best defenseman in the Anaheim series and would be a devastating loss.
If we keep Stuart, that leaves Cleary... but that would be another huge mistake.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 02:55 PM
  #30
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
If we keep Stuart, that leaves Cleary... but that would be another huge mistake.
This is the point I'm getting at.

It would be nice to keep Hossa around, but the math does not add up.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 02:59 PM
  #31
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Hudler and Sammy didn't make a bit of difference in this series, even less than Hossa.

The problem is, cutting those two won't make enough room for Hossa. One of these players will have to go, and Hossa will have to get around a $5 mil cap hit:

Holmstrom
Draper & Maltby
Filppula
Cleary
Stuart
Kronwall

From that list, who is going to go to make room? I don't see any way anyone on that list moves, with the VERY improbable exception of Filppula. But then if they deal him, they're short their entire 2nd line.

I think it comes down to a couple of things, what each player brings relative to his price, and what the team needs will be in the next few years. A 40G scorer taking less than $6 million cap hit is almost unheard of-- and may not happen here, but it seems at least they're talking. Then you look at everyone else. You can't really let Clearly go if you're also potentially losing Sammy and Hudler. Or you swap out Flip with Cleary, but Flip has to move up to the top six as a winger, not a center. The way the team is set up right now... you have Dats, Z, Hossa, Homer, Franzen and Cleary as your bonafide top six forwards. Do you lose Flip to keep Homer, for example, because Flip is a better player? Yet-- you are turning him into a winger, not a center.

1. Who are your top 4 wingers if Hossa leaves?
2. Is Filppula as a third line center being paid too much?
3. If Flip is moved to the top six, who is your third line center?

What does it look like the year after next when Homer, Malts, Draper and Lidstrom appear to be done?

I guess what I'm saying is that the middle/depth/experienced by relatively cheap guys could get squeezed out if you opt to keep the best forward out of the group around, while also having to keep clearly past their prime, and almost gone in one more year guys around-- for one more year.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:06 PM
  #32
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think it comes down to a couple of things, what each player brings relative to his price, and what the team needs will be in the next few years. A 40G scorer taking less than $6 million cap hit is almost unheard of-- and may not happen here, but it seems at least they're talking. Then you look at everyone else. You can't really let Clearly go if you're also potentially losing Sammy and Hudler. Or you swap out Flip with Cleary, but Flip has to move up to the top six as a winger, not a center. The way the team is set up right now... you have Dats, Z, Hossa, Homer, Franzen and Cleary as your bonafide top six forwards. Do you lose Flip to keep Homer, for example, because Flip is a better player? Yet-- you are turning him into a winger, not a center.

1. Who are your top 4 wingers if Hossa leaves?
2. Is Filppula as a third line center being paid too much?
3. If Flip is moved to the top six, who is your third line center?

What does it look like the year after next when Homer, Malts, Draper and Lidstrom appear to be done?

I guess what I'm saying is that the middle/depth/experienced by relatively cheap guys could get squeezed out if you opt to keep the best forward out of the group around, while also having to keep clearly past their prime, and almost gone in one more year guys around-- for one more year.
1. Cleary, Franzen, Hudler, and UFA. If they can't make room for Hossa they will keep Hudler and possibly Sammy too.
2. Filppula could move up to the 2nd line center position and they could put Pavel on his wing. Not optimal but might be worth a try. Those two with Cleary or Franzen could be dynamite.
3. Helm. That's an easy one.

If they think Flip is a 3rd line player then I think they will deal him to make room for Hossa.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:11 PM
  #33
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
1. Cleary, Franzen, Hudler, and UFA. If they can't make room for Hossa they will keep Hudler and possibly Sammy too.
2. Filppula could move up to the 2nd line center position and they could put Pavel on his wing. Not optimal but might be worth a try. Those two with Cleary or Franzen could be dynamite.
3. Helm. That's an easy one.

If they think Flip is a 3rd line player then I think they will deal him to make room for Hossa.
Only problem is that Babs doesn't trust Hudler as a top six.

Franzen-Z-Cleary
Homer-Dats-Flip
Hudler-Helm-Sammy/Leino
Maltby-Draper-Kopecky/Abdelkader

Looks a bit anemic, no, especially when you get a few injuries to the usual guys (Z, Homer, Dats...)

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:22 PM
  #34
Roy S
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Hudler and Sammy didn't make a bit of difference in this series, even less than Hossa.

The problem is, cutting those two won't make enough room for Hossa. One of these players will have to go, and Hossa will have to get around a $5 mil cap hit:

Holmstrom
Draper & Maltby
Filppula
Cleary
Stuart
Kronwall

From that list, who is going to go to make room? I don't see any way anyone on that list moves, with the VERY improbable exception of Filppula. But then if they deal him, they're short their entire 2nd line.
Homer, Flip and Kronwall would be the most likely to go b/c they do not have a NTC. But, with Lidstrom retiring here soon and Rafalski getting up there in age, I doubt they would move a top 4 D-man. And, Flip is 26 years old and a top 6 forward for us. He's not going anywhere. Homer would be the most logical b/c he is basically an 8/9 forward for us who is not strong defensively or at even strength. And, his presence in front of the net was reduced more than ever before this postseason and we have Cleary and Franzen to take his spot. Not saying he would be moved, but he is the most likely, imo. Even moving his salary, though, would not be enough to fit Hossa in and fill out the rest of our forward line-up.


Mod: deleted.


Last edited by Fugu: 06-15-2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: can't link to your own blog, become a sponsor, put it in your sig
Roy S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:23 PM
  #35
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Only problem is that Babs doesn't trust Hudler as a top six.

Franzen-Z-Cleary
Homer-Dats-Flip
Hudler-Helm-Sammy/Leino
Maltby-Draper-Kopecky/Abdelkader

Looks a bit anemic, no, especially when you get a few injuries to the usual guys (Z, Homer, Dats...)
It seems anemic until you look at the 2008 Cup forwards:

Franzen-Z-Cleary
Homer-Dats-Flip
Hudler-Helm-Sammy
Maltby-Draper-Abdelkader

Helm, Abdelkader, Flip, and Franzen are all improved, and Cleary will be healthy.

The only problem I see is Homer in the top 6. He will absolutely kill Pav and Flip on that line. I would try out Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader on that wing.

Also that lineup might be a bit stagnant. I don't know who or how, but they need more spunk and speed in there. Maybe someone like Mike Grier or Chad Larose or Travis Moen would be a good fit there.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:38 PM
  #36
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
It seems anemic until you look at the 2008 Cup forwards:

Franzen-Z-Cleary
Homer-Dats-Flip
Hudler-Helm-Sammy
Maltby-Draper-Abdelkader

Helm, Abdelkader, Flip, and Franzen are all improved, and Cleary will be healthy.

The only problem I see is Homer in the top 6. He will absolutely kill Pav and Flip on that line. I would try out Leino, Helm, and Abdelkader on that wing.

Also that lineup might be a bit stagnant. I don't know who or how, but they need more spunk and speed in there. Maybe someone like Mike Grier or Chad Larose or Travis Moen would be a good fit there.
Therein is the rub. Do you sacrifice some real oomph on the top two lines so you can flesh out the next two? Putting relative rookies in the top six isn't the Wings way.

I guess my feeling is that any forward up for renewal that cannot hold down a top six line is expendable. The kids are exempt because that's the way you afford to have top six forwards, so you have to fill out the roster with them. After that, of your bottom six forwards, who are the best guys left? We know the answer but the Wings way of doing things makes it tough for them to clip some of those Wings... ha ha.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:44 PM
  #37
Braby91
Registered User
 
Braby91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 443
vCash: 500
Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Cleary
Franzen - Filppula - Holmstrom/Leino
Holmstrom/Leino - Helm - Hudler
Maltby - Draper - Abdelkader/Kopecky

I really like the looks of those lines. I really think Holmstrom is worthless so I don't know where to put him.

Braby91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 03:49 PM
  #38
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braby View Post
Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Cleary
Franzen - Filppula - Holmstrom/Leino
Holmstrom/Leino - Helm - Hudler
Maltby - Draper - Abdelkader/Kopecky

I really like the looks of those lines. I really think Holmstrom is worthless so I don't know where to put him.
Nope. Babs is NOT going to play Leino in the top six. He said he needed to work on his D.

You're stuck with Homer in the top six, and you either have to play Dats and Z together (Babs doesn't like that either), or you make Flip a winger.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:01 PM
  #39
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Therein is the rub. Do you sacrifice some real oomph on the top two lines so you can flesh out the next two? Putting relative rookies in the top six isn't the Wings way.

I guess my feeling is that any forward up for renewal that cannot hold down a top six line is expendable. The kids are exempt because that's the way you afford to have top six forwards, so you have to fill out the roster with them. After that, of your bottom six forwards, who are the best guys left? We know the answer but the Wings way of doing things makes it tough for them to clip some of those Wings... ha ha.
Helm is a rookie in name only, with 8 playoff series under his belt. Babcock doesn't sound like he is afraid to give him more ice time, and he shouldn't be. Good things happen when the kid is on the ice.

Leino isn't really a rookie either - he can work on his defense and swing between the 2nd and 3rd lines until they determine where he belongs.

And are you really suggesting that the top 6 is better off defensively with Homer instead?

Honestly I would give Helm a shot in the top 6, because you know he's good defensively and his speed and physical play could really open things up for their scorers.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:09 PM
  #40
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Helm is a rookie in name only, with 8 playoff series under his belt. Babcock doesn't sound like he is afraid to give him more ice time, and he shouldn't be. Good things happen when the kid is on the ice.

Leino isn't really a rookie either - he can work on his defense and swing between the 2nd and 3rd lines until they determine where he belongs.

And are you really suggesting that the top 6 is better off defensively with Homer instead?

Honestly I would give Helm a shot in the top 6, because you know he's good defensively and his speed and physical play could really open things up for their scorers.
Nope, definitely not suggesting Homer belongs there. That's part of the problem. While Babs has defensive demands for most players, his love of Homer knows no bounds....

That's the point though. Let's rank the BEST players on the Wings right now, offense and defense, irrespective of contract status. Add Helm, Leino, Ericksson, (not sure about AppleGator).

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:17 PM
  #41
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,355
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
I rank the Wings players:

Forwards:
Zetteberg
Datsyuk
Hossa
Franzen
Cleary
Flip
Helm
Holmstrom (if healthy)
sammy
Hudler
Draper
Maltby
Leino
Gator's still a griffin to me

D:
Lidstrom
Rafalski
Kronwall
Stuart
E
Lilja
Lebda
Meech

Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:20 PM
  #42
Brodie
Moderator
King at the Wall
 
Brodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 11,833
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I rank the Wings players:

Forwards:
Zetteberg
Datsyuk
Hossa
Franzen
Cleary
Flip
Helm
Holmstrom (if healthy)
sammy
Hudler
Draper
Maltby
Leino
Gator's still a griffin to me

D:
Lidstrom
Rafalski
Kronwall
Stuart
E
Lilja
Lebda
Meech
The only difference is that I'd put Leino over Maltby. I see zero value in Malts at this point, at least Leino can score on occasion.

Brodie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:24 PM
  #43
Winger98
Moderator
powers combined
 
Winger98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 13,355
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Winger98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
The only difference is that I'd put Leino over Maltby. I see zero value in Malts at this point, at least Leino can score on occasion.
I just dont' like some of Leino's decision making. He is easily a better offensive player but Maltby is just as easily the safer guy to have on the ice, imo. I favor the conservative side in hockey so I lean towards Maltby. But I do think Leino could climb up this list pretty quickly next year.

Winger98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:41 PM
  #44
Roy S
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Nope. Babs is NOT going to play Leino in the top six. He said he needed to work on his D.

You're stuck with Homer in the top six, and you either have to play Dats and Z together (Babs doesn't like that either), or you make Flip a winger.
You are not stuck with Homer in the top 6. Our 6 best forwards are Z, Pavel, Franzen, Cleary, Flip and Sammy. Those 6 players, for the majority of the season, will make up our top 2 lines. Homer and Leino will be on separate lines b/c we will not have 2 sub-par defensive players on the same line. That is why I don't think Hudler comes back. If he does, he will have to be on a line with one of Homer or Leino, or he could be placed in the top 6 where he is a liability.

I imagine Homer is a 3rd line player next year with Helm and Kopecky. Leino will play with Draper and Maltby, imo.

Roy S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 04:47 PM
  #45
jacK
Registered User
 
jacK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 2,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Hudler and Sammy didn't make a bit of difference in this series, even less than Hossa.

The problem is, cutting those two won't make enough room for Hossa. One of these players will have to go, and Hossa will have to get around a $5 mil cap hit:

Holmstrom
Draper & Maltby
Filppula
Cleary
Stuart
Kronwall

From that list, who is going to go to make room? I don't see any way anyone on that list moves, with the VERY improbable exception of Filppula. But then if they deal him, they're short their entire 2nd line.
Hossa carried his own line at a point-per in Atlanta with Todd White or Eric Perrin at center. granted it's the East, and granted some of those points come w/ Kovalchuk firing rockets from the point on the PP; i'd rather not lose Flip, but it's not the end of second-line scoring if he's not the one dishing to Hoss.

i still think the way we're gonna get away with signing Hoss and keeping Flip (and maybe one of Sammy/Huds) is LTIR stays for a couple/few guys (Lilly, Homer, Drapes?), and they'll miraculously come back right about the time adding their salaries would bring our year-end total to the cap.

jacK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 05:16 PM
  #46
probertrules24
Down with the Bruins
 
probertrules24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacK View Post
i still think the way we're gonna get away with signing Hoss and keeping Flip (and maybe one of Sammy/Huds) is LTIR stays for a couple/few guys (Lilly, Homer, Drapes?), and they'll miraculously come back right about the time adding their salaries would bring our year-end total to the cap.
Question on this: If you have a player on LTIR are they allowed to practice with the team and remain on the LTIR or do they come off and go on IR until there activated.

probertrules24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 05:32 PM
  #47
jacK
Registered User
 
jacK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 2,663
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Question on this: If you have a player on LTIR are they allowed to practice with the team and remain on the LTIR or do they come off and go on IR until there activated.
not positive, but here's my best guess.

once on LTIR (10 game/25 day minimum IIRC), they're there until activated; no shift to regular IR when practice-ready. then as far as practice goes, it looks to me like it's kosher (unless there's special LTIR conditions i'm not finding):
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA (16.11.c)
Players on the Injured Reserve List may attend team meetings, travel with the Club (at the Club's option) and participate in practice sessions with other Players on the Club's Active Roster. Players on Injured Reserve are prohibited from appearing in NHL Games, participating in pre-game warm-ups with their Clubs, or dressing in game uniforms on NHL Game days. Players on Injured Reserve and Injured Non-Roster shall have access to the Club's primary training and medical facilities during regular business hours provided, however, that the Club may restrict such Players' access during periods when Players on the Club's Active Roster are expected to be present at such primary training and medical facilities (e.g. pre-game skates, practices, games, medical and physical treatments for other Players) and within a reasonable period of time before and after such time periods.

jacK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 05:57 PM
  #48
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Question on this: If you have a player on LTIR are they allowed to practice with the team and remain on the LTIR or do they come off and go on IR until there activated.
I do not believe any player on LTIR is allowed to participate in regular practices. They can be sent to the minors for a conditioning stint without being subject to waivers.

  Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 07:08 PM
  #49
sarcastro
Moderator
 
sarcastro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I just dont' like some of Leino's decision making. He is easily a better offensive player but Maltby is just as easily the safer guy to have on the ice, imo. I favor the conservative side in hockey so I lean towards Maltby. But I do think Leino could climb up this list pretty quickly next year.
Leino is also what, 25? And he has not even scratched the surface of his potential. It's unlikely he will be a ppg/gamebreaking player, but I really believe that with 15 minutes of ice time a night, some time in the top 6, some PP time (basically Hudler's ice time from this season), he could at least match Hudler's numbers.

Also, Maltby is not the safe defensive player he used to be - he has been either a -8 or a -9 in each of the 4 post-lockout seasons, whereas the 4 seasons before the lockout he was +15 or better every year.

Some of us are guilty at times of seeing the Maltby or Draper or Homer from 8 or 9 years ago when we think about their play - in reality, these guys have all slipped a LOT, whether it's from age or injuries or both.

sarcastro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 07:09 PM
  #50
Wingnut31
Registered User
 
Wingnut31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Land That Time F
Country: Canada
Posts: 57
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Wingnut31 Send a message via AIM to Wingnut31 Send a message via Yahoo to Wingnut31
How about moving Rafalski and freeing up 6mil.

Wingnut31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.