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Red Wings Cap Tracker: 2009-10 & 2010-11

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:38 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So what if we put Homer and Lilja to LTIR for the whole next season? Let them heal totally and put them to 2 week conditioning stint right before the playoffs to the AHL. And then get them to the playoffs as the black aces WITHOUT ANY CAPHIT?

I'd give Hossa 1 year deal at Homer's salary as an LTIR replacement, and then we would look like this at the regular season:
let me repeat what has been said many times before, including by Hoss himself: he is NOT taking a 1-year deal. and there's no way in hell after passing up about $80mil last summer that he's playing for $2mil this year.

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06-16-2009, 09:48 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
With the Cap the way it is right now, that Filppula deal kinda looks ugly. He may have gotten about a million more than what he should be getting.

I think what can help Filppula is bringing back Hossa and playing them together all year on a line with him and Franzen. I thought Hossa and Mule had good chemistry when they were together in the playoffs. Plus, that line brings speed, skill and grit, it could be a really good line if they get the chance to build chemistry over a season.

I am 80% sure Hossa will be back and Holland can justify offering him a $5.5 million deal. Which for a player of Hossa's calibre, is a really good deal. Heck, I wouldnt be too upset about a $6 million cap hit for Hossa. Maybe it's because I still really like Hossa and always have been a huge fan of him, but I think the Wings are better with him than without, regardless of losing some depth, because they have low cap hit youngsters to fill that void. You can have, probably, a better 3rd line with Helm and Leino on it, than you would with Sammy and Hudler on it for about $2 million cheaper.
we overpaid him to buy up some UFA years. doesn't look like the best deal atm, and may look like a bad deal years from now if things don't get much better. but, if things develop as management was hoping when overpaying for those UFA years, it ends up looking like a good deal.

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06-17-2009, 06:40 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
ericsson seems to have good offensive ability, and seems more offensive-minded than defensive-minded, but i doubt he will play on PP. he probably won't get much TOI.
if he were a right-shooter, though....
our D is not getting younger though. ericsson has an awesome shot. lidstrom, rafalski, kronner might be the top3, but once one of them is injured ericsson will play PP. he really is made for that.

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looking back at their stats, ericcson had 4p in 19 games, actually very close to lilja (13p in 60 games). stuart scored very little (15p in 67 games).
ericsson is 25, but still a NHL rookie. when he joined the league you could see that he was all about defense first which is something babcock wanted from him. but next season, once he feels established, you can expect more offense from him. not like kronwall, but still better than lilja, stuart.

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addition of leino and helm (and possibly abdelkader) should mean better offense on the lower lines, and thus more opportunities for the 3rd D-pair.
i'm not sold yet that ericsson will be on 3rd line. with lidstrom, rafalski, kronwall, stuart and ericsson you have 5 guys you can rely on in every situation IMO. and i think it gives babcock the opportunity to change the lines a lot. and honestly ericsson should play left side to stuart. kronwall-stuart is a disaster. so maybe we see 3 lines who get equal ice-time. lilja, if healthy, played good with rafalski and kronwall IMO. so i'm all for splitting the pairs of this season.

lidstrom - kronwall
ericsson - stuart
lilja - rafalski

assuming that all 6 will be with the team next season.

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06-17-2009, 07:20 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
I can't really think of any other move we can do to keep Hossa, unless as mentioned, we find a way to not have Holmstrom and Lilja's salaries count against our cap, but I don't think we can plan for that to be the case at the beginning of free agency come july 1st.
This is how the way goes.

I think best for next season is to get our roster full of cheap guys signing our own, and then try to bolster the lineup maybe at the trade deadline.

Ilya Kovalchuk anyone?

...for that right handness discussion...

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06-17-2009, 07:39 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
This is how the way goes.

I think best for next season is to get our roster full of cheap guys signing our own, and then try to bolster the lineup maybe at the trade deadline.

Ilya Kovalchuk anyone?

...for that right handness discussion...
and who exactly do we include in a deal for kovalchuk at next years deadline???? Because god knows Dirty Don will be wanting arms and legs. Not gonna happen my friend.

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06-17-2009, 07:56 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by neus View Post
and who exactly do we include in a deal for kovalchuk at next years deadline???? Because god knows Dirty Don will be wanting arms and legs. Not gonna happen my friend.
Roster player, prospect and 2 x 1st.

Everything can happen, hey folks, we have Kenny Holland.

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06-17-2009, 09:36 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
With the Cap the way it is right now, that Filppula deal kinda looks ugly. He may have gotten about a million more than what he should be getting.

I think what can help Filppula is bringing back Hossa and playing them together all year on a line with him and Franzen. I thought Hossa and Mule had good chemistry when they were together in the playoffs. Plus, that line brings speed, skill and grit, it could be a really good line if they get the chance to build chemistry over a season.

I am 80% sure Hossa will be back and Holland can justify offering him a $5.5 million deal. Which for a player of Hossa's calibre, is a really good deal. Heck, I wouldnt be too upset about a $6 million cap hit for Hossa. Maybe it's because I still really like Hossa and always have been a huge fan of him, but I think the Wings are better with him than without, regardless of losing some depth, because they have low cap hit youngsters to fill that void. You can have, probably, a better 3rd line with Helm and Leino on it, than you would with Sammy and Hudler on it for about $2 million cheaper.
The Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall deals all brought this kind of comment too, for the first year or so. There is still plenty of potential for him to turn into much more than a $3 mil player. He'd better get cracking though...

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06-17-2009, 09:39 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
If Hossa is retained at 6, you keep nobody.
If Hossa is retained at 5, you can maybe keep somebody.
If Hossa is retained at 4, you can certainly keep somebody.
If Hossa is not retained, you can keep everybody.
Not sure where your math is coming from.

If we assume Lilja is either gone or on LTIR, Chelios gone, Hudler and Sammy gone, etc, the Wings have $4 mil in cap room for 09-10.

So it starts at:

If Hossa is retained at 4, you keep nobody.
If Hossa is retained at 5 or more, you start trading people or buying people out.

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06-17-2009, 10:52 AM
  #109
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As is stands now, we have 2.29 in cap space. If we LTIR Lilja and trade Homer, that gives us 5.8 million to spend on a minimum of 4 forwards. Leino will get $800,000 with assurances that he will be a Wing all year. So, we have $5 million left for 3-4 forwards spots. Re-sign Sammy for 2 million, re-sign Kopecky for $500,000, sign a Sami Pahlson-type for 1.5 million. Then we could either keep the 1 million we have left over for the trade deadline, or in case Lilja comes off LTIR and we have to pay a portion of his salary, or we could use it on a league minimum/slightly above league minimum forward or D-man.

Top 6 forwards: Z, Pavel, Franzen, Flip, Cleary, Sammy
Bottom 6: Helm, Pahlson, Leino, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby
Maybe an extra forward?

The same top 6 on D as we had this year with Meech the #7 guy unless we elect to trade him to acquire a better #7 guy with his salary and that extra $1 million we have left over.

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06-17-2009, 02:10 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
As is stands now, we have 2.29 in cap space. If we LTIR Lilja and trade Homer, that gives us 5.8 million to spend on a minimum of 4 forwards. Leino will get $800,000 with assurances that he will be a Wing all year. So, we have $5 million left for 3-4 forwards spots. Re-sign Sammy for 2 million, re-sign Kopecky for $500,000, sign a Sami Pahlson-type for 1.5 million. Then we could either keep the 1 million we have left over for the trade deadline, or in case Lilja comes off LTIR and we have to pay a portion of his salary, or we could use it on a league minimum/slightly above league minimum forward or D-man.

Top 6 forwards: Z, Pavel, Franzen, Flip, Cleary, Sammy
Bottom 6: Helm, Pahlson, Leino, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby
Maybe an extra forward?

The same top 6 on D as we had this year with Meech the #7 guy unless we elect to trade him to acquire a better #7 guy with his salary and that extra $1 million we have left over.
But i want Hossa!

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06-17-2009, 02:35 PM
  #111
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Not sure where your math is coming from.

If we assume Lilja is either gone or on LTIR, Chelios gone, Hudler and Sammy gone, etc, the Wings have $4 mil in cap room for 09-10.

So it starts at:

If Hossa is retained at 4, you keep nobody.
If Hossa is retained at 5 or more, you start trading people or buying people out.
If Hossa is retained at 6 million, Hudler, Sammy, and Lilja are all gone. And that may not get the team under the cap. Even though Bettman doesn't want it to happen, I think the cap inches up by a little bit this year due to the NHLPA's escalator. Probably 1-1.5 million.

If Hossa is retained at 5 million, it is not inconcievable that either Hudler or Sammy would sign a one year deal at around what they made this year.

If Hossa is retained at 4 million, the team can absolutely keep one of Hudler or Sammy.

While all of these scenarios have the Wings right around 57-59 million, I'm functioning under the assumption that the Wings are also going to have Lidstrom and Homer on LTIR for parts of the upcoming season.

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06-17-2009, 02:42 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
As is stands now, we have 2.29 in cap space. If we LTIR Lilja and trade Homer, that gives us 5.8 million to spend on a minimum of 4 forwards. Leino will get $800,000 with assurances that he will be a Wing all year. So, we have $5 million left for 3-4 forwards spots. Re-sign Sammy for 2 million, re-sign Kopecky for $500,000, sign a Sami Pahlson-type for 1.5 million. Then we could either keep the 1 million we have left over for the trade deadline, or in case Lilja comes off LTIR and we have to pay a portion of his salary, or we could use it on a league minimum/slightly above league minimum forward or D-man.

Top 6 forwards: Z, Pavel, Franzen, Flip, Cleary, Sammy
Bottom 6: Helm, Pahlson, Leino, Kopecky, Draper, Maltby
Maybe an extra forward?

The same top 6 on D as we had this year with Meech the #7 guy unless we elect to trade him to acquire a better #7 guy with his salary and that extra $1 million we have left over.
Man, I thought I was done with Sammy on the 2nd line.

That's also a very scrawny looking top six.

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06-17-2009, 03:17 PM
  #113
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i think it is unrealistic for hossa to sign for 4M, but even if he does, DRW would still be over the cap.

zetterberg (6.08) - datsyuk (6.7) - franzen (3.954)
cleary (2.8) - filppula (3) - hossa (4)
leino (.9) - helm (.599) - homer (2.25)
maltby (.88) - draper (1.583) - kopecky (.5)

lidstrom (7.45) - rafalski (6)
kronwall (3) - stuart (3.75)
ericsson (.9) - lebda (.65)

osgood (1.416)
howard (.717)

no samuelsson or hudler

57.129 for 20 players




zetterberg (6.08) - datsyuk (6.7) - homer (2.25)
franzen (3.954) - filppula (3) - hossa (6)
leino (.9) - helm (.599) - cleary (2.8)
maltby (.88) - draper (1.583) - kopecky (.5)

lidstrom (7.45) - rafalski (6)
kronwall (3) - stuart (3.75)
ericsson (.9) - lebda (.65)

osgood (1.416)
howard (.717)

59.129 for 20 players


in reality, payrolls would probably be slightly higher, b/c i left off many extra digits on some salaries.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
If Hossa is retained at 6 million, Hudler, Sammy, and Lilja are all gone. And that may not get the team under the cap. Even though Bettman doesn't want it to happen, I think the cap inches up by a little bit this year due to the NHLPA's escalator. Probably 1-1.5 million.

If Hossa is retained at 5 million, it is not inconcievable that either Hudler or Sammy would sign a one year deal at around what they made this year.

If Hossa is retained at 4 million, the team can absolutely keep one of Hudler or Sammy.

While all of these scenarios have the Wings right around 57-59 million, I'm functioning under the assumption that the Wings are also going to have Lidstrom and Homer on LTIR for parts of the upcoming season.
you are assuming that one of the least injured players in history, who has missed something like 20 of 1580 games, will spend time on LTIR?

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06-17-2009, 03:48 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Man, I thought I was done with Sammy on the 2nd line.

That's also a very scrawny looking top six.
Franzen's 6'2 210
Sammy's 6'3 211
Cleary's 6-0, 211
Fil's 5-11, 202.

I mean, that's not the Broad Street Bullies or anything... but 'scrawny'?

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06-17-2009, 03:49 PM
  #115
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you are assuming that one of the least injured players in history, who has missed something like 20 of 1580 games, will spend time on LTIR?
Yes.

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06-17-2009, 03:58 PM
  #116
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hey, anyone got the word on UFA from across the pond who could be had? I know the goalie (Gustaffson?) is a hot commodity, but the Wings haven't been shy about grabbing a player or two from a European league and, next season, we should have a roster spot they'd have a good shot at earning.

Have to wonder if we won't go older with one of our draft picks, either, looking for another Franzen - not someone to develop into a 30 goal scorer but just someone who can possibly come over and contribute immediately.

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06-17-2009, 04:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Franzen's 6'2 210
Sammy's 6'3 211
Cleary's 6-0, 211
Fil's 5-11, 202.

I mean, that's not the Broad Street Bullies or anything... but 'scrawny'?
Yup. Sammy is the biggest forward on the team. Sure can fool me with the way he avoids contact....

Cleary's 6' is probably generous rounding, but he can hold his own, at least. Flip gets knocked on his ass all the time. Z and Dats are luckily such great skaters and are too smart to get hit much.

Consider this lineup playing the Ducks, with that top six. I don't think I'd want to watch (assuming they have their defensemen, etc, but who knows what will happen there.)

Of that group, I can only envision Franzen and Cleary trying to go to the front of the net. I don't think Cleary is really built for it, to be honest.

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06-17-2009, 04:03 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Franzen's 6'2 210
Sammy's 6'3 211
Cleary's 6-0, 211
Fil's 5-11, 202.

The Mule is 6'3, 220 and Sammy never ever is 6'3, maybe 6'1 or 6'2 maximum.

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06-17-2009, 04:07 PM
  #119
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hey, anyone got the word on UFA from across the pond who could be had? I know the goalie (Gustaffson?) is a hot commodity, but the Wings haven't been shy about grabbing a player or two from a European league and, next season, we should have a roster spot they'd have a good shot at earning.

Have to wonder if we won't go older with one of our draft picks, either, looking for another Franzen - not someone to develop into a 30 goal scorer but just someone who can possibly come over and contribute immediately.
i don't see anyone in sweden worth picking up as UFA. at least not with the aim to let him fight for a roster spot.

but, there's one wings prospect who had a succesful season in sweden and might be close to the NHL. and he will be in NA next season. but once i mention his name, all those haters come again and tell me he's got issues.
i can seriously see him fighting for a spot or at least to be the first callup.

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06-17-2009, 04:37 PM
  #120
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Yes.
Very interesting logic HHD. Definitely brings a whole new element to the discussion. Will be interesting to see who needs extended time off.

Lilja likely frees up 1.25M right off the start. We will replace him with meech/lebda saving 600k.

If Holmstrom, Cleary, Rafi (likely), or Lidstrom need time off too we could very well be in business.

OFC we cant exceed the cap on opening day and cant go over it more than 10% before it.

I think Rafi's back issue all but guarantees major time out next season. If we can find a way to start him on the Injured Reserve (ie no Rafi for first 10 games) We could probably sign Hossa to a 6M deal. In this fantasy land we may even hold on to Meech just to float him back F/D just to keep the roster full. In the end should everyone eventually get healthy and we be short on space we would lose Meech (who cares), Lilja (who cares), and possibly have to trade someone. That may be a better option than definitely trading someone.

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06-17-2009, 08:08 PM
  #121
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Yes.
are we talking about Nicks elbow injury?

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06-17-2009, 08:09 PM
  #122
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i don't see anyone in sweden worth picking up as UFA. at least not with the aim to let him fight for a roster spot.

but, there's one wings prospect who had a succesful season in sweden and might be close to the NHL. and he will be in NA next season. but once i mention his name, all those haters come again and tell me he's got issues.
i can seriously see him fighting for a spot or at least to be the first callup.
Who,who,who

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06-17-2009, 09:00 PM
  #123
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Consider this lineup playing the Ducks, with that top six. I don't think I'd want to watch (assuming they have their defensemen, etc, but who knows what will happen there.
Well sure, the Wings aren't going to be as big as the biggest front lines out there... but jeez, didn't we already have these discussions like 3 or 4 years ago? The Wings don't need to have a bunch of big guys in order to play with grit and passion. They were a smaller club last year and won a Cup, and had they been even a little healthy they would have won it again this year.

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06-17-2009, 09:11 PM
  #124
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are we talking about Nicks elbow injury?
Mostly I'm talking about a) he'll be 39-40 years old next year, b) he has played somewhere in the vicinity of 300 regular and post-season NHL games the past three years, and c) he's gotten significantly dinged in each of the past two years.

At some point, the body starts to go. I tend to think next year will be that time for Nick, given the sheer tonnage of hockey he's played for the past three seasons.

I've always maintained that Lidstrom's IT will continue to be reduced at a fairly consistent rate... but I think it may get cut by quite a bit next year. Not so much because his level of play is declining (although it is), but more because it will be more important to have him healthier and better rested going into the playoffs.

If Ericsson can play even close to the level he did in the playoffs, I think Babcock may just run his top 5 guys out there all between 18-21 minutes a night.

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06-17-2009, 09:25 PM
  #125
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Quote:
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Well sure, the Wings aren't going to be as big as the biggest front lines out there... but jeez, didn't we already have these discussions like 3 or 4 years ago? The Wings don't need to have a bunch of big guys in order to play with grit and passion. They were a smaller club last year and won a Cup, and had they been even a little healthy they would have won it again this year.
And every year we bring in some bigger players. Three years ago it was Bertuzzi, last year Stuart, this year Ericsson and Hossa...the Wings don't exactly have the easiest system to just plug a big guy into and send him on to the ice but I think it's clear the Wings value adding some size when they can. And a fair share of it is the expectation that bigger players can possibly take a bit more pounding in the postseason before breaking down.

Just look at the guys who were the most dinged up this year. Datsyuk, Rafalski, Cleary, Z. Smaller guys. Meanwhile, it seems Franzen and Hossa were comparitively healthy. I think we all know that adding a big skilled guy in the offseason isn't going to happen, but I think a lack of size is a genuine concern.

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