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Detroit to offer Hossa long term deal (4 million dollar cap hit)

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Old
06-15-2009, 12:45 PM
  #51
kdb209
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Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Except they'll retire (likely before 40) and since they signed their deals before 35 there won't be any cap hit, so... they won't be.
Except that this rumorued 10 year deal will run through the end of the current CBA, through the duration of the next CBA, and into the CBA following that one. There is no guarantee that the cap hits on all these long term, front loaded contracts will continue to be treated the same.

I think it quite possible that under the new CBA that retirements will be treated like buyouts currently are - with all of the cap savings accrued paid back over the life of the original SPC term - and there is no guarantee that there would be any grandfathering of existing contracts.
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Originally Posted by Redwingsfan View Post
Only entry level contracts can have bonuses, IIRC..
Older (35+ yo) players and injured vets (400+ games, 100+ days on IR the previous season) can also get Performance Bonuses if they sign a 1 yr deal.

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06-15-2009, 12:49 PM
  #52
Vitto79
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They should let him go and Samuellson and resign Hudler

oh not they only have Zetterberg, Daysuyk, Franzen, Fillpula, Hudler, Holmstrom on their top 6. with Cleary, Helm, Leino, Draper ,Maltby , Abdelkader under contract.....PLEASE spread the wealth

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06-15-2009, 12:52 PM
  #53
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I hope he can wheel and deal and figure some things out.

Id much rather throw some young players into the mold and keep hossa then to resign hudler, samuelsson and keep draper and maltby around. Ah, probably only in a dream world would we see Detroit finally end the horror and buyout malts and draps.

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06-15-2009, 01:00 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Except that this rumorued 10 year deal will run through the end of the current CBA, through the duration of the next CBA, and into the CBA following that one. There is no guarantee that the cap hits on all these long term, front loaded contracts will continue to be treated the same.

I think it quite possible that under the new CBA that retirements will be treated like buyouts currently are - with all of the cap savings accrued paid back over the life of the original SPC term - and there is no guarantee that there would be any grandfathering of existing contracts.
That may be, but I have to imagine they will need to provide some relief for teams who have made signings under the old CBA. Possibly not... you could be correct, but it seems like the GMs would have some right to say "how do you expect us to negotiate any contract longer than 3 years when there's the chance you'll just change the rules on us again with each new CBA?" I can see it being a sensitive subject.

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06-15-2009, 01:29 PM
  #55
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To sign Hossa say the same deal as Franzen...3.954.....now they put Howard/Conklin as backup..716 or .75......Lija concussion doesnt play...dont sign Samuelsson,trade Hurdler away for a pick.trade away Holmstrom-----,Abdel and Leno raise 10%,Helm all play next season...and add 3 .500 players at forward to get to 14 forwards.......you are about 1.1 over.......trade draper for a .500 man and you have about .437 cap left and a 23 man roster
Hossa,Dats,Cleary
Franzen,Zett,Helm
Abdel,Flippula,Leino
Maltby,.500,.500---might want to keep Draper and trade Malbty but numbers dont add up
spare ?.500,.500

Lidstrom,Rafalski,Kronwell,Meech,Stuart,Ericsson,L ebda
Osgood,Howard or Conklin

if I screwed up the forward lines dont worry about postions but thats the lineup you have ...still very good

keep Hossa lose Hurdler,Samuelsson,Draper,Holmstrom or lose Hossa keep Draper,Holmstrom and just over 1 mil

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06-15-2009, 01:46 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Except they'll retire (likely before 40) and since they signed their deals before 35 there won't be any cap hit, so... they won't be.
And if they all retire early are the Wings open for charges of circumvention...

No one has any idea of how this would play out. But technically, even though the contracts were accepted by the league they could still be investigated anytime for cap circumvention. There is also the possibility that changes in the next cap could see some penalty attached to early retirement with such contracts. This may not be likely but the contracts do still carry risk.

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06-15-2009, 02:35 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
That may be, but I have to imagine they will need to provide some relief for teams who have made signings under the old CBA. Possibly not... you could be correct, but it seems like the GMs would have some right to say "how do you expect us to negotiate any contract longer than 3 years when there's the chance you'll just change the rules on us again with each new CBA?" I can see it being a sensitive subject.
But for any owner to argue for relief, they would effectively be admitting to cap circumvention - that they did not expect, and in fact planned for, that the player would not play out the duration of the contract.

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06-15-2009, 02:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by albo23 View Post
Kick Holland out, I have the greatest idea in the world:

Hossa leaves, we sign Bouwmeester for a long term contract with low hit.
When Lidstrom retires, we sign Rick Nash or Ilya Kovalchuk.

FRICKIN GENIUS I AM - TROPHY NOW.

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06-15-2009, 02:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
But for any owner to argue for relief, they would effectively be admitting to cap circumvention - that they did not expect, and in fact planned for, that the player would not play out the duration of the contract.
Not sure how they would be admitting to circumventing the cap. Wouldn't they of been just following the rules that were in place. They can't predict when a player decides to retire and if that's early they are still within the rules of that cba when the contract was signed.

I can't see how a contract that was signed within the guidelines of the cba and then deemed wrong and a team punished because the league changes there mind and never thought of this in the first place. Just my opinion but I think if this rule will be changed these contracts will have to be grandfathered in. If not I agree with the poster above what team would sign anybody longer then the length of the current cba.

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06-15-2009, 03:02 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Not sure how they would be admitting to circumventing the cap. Wouldn't they of been just following the rules that were in place. They can't predict when a player decides to retire and if that's early they are still within the rules of that cba when the contract was signed.

I can't see how a contract that was signed within the guidelines of the cba and then deemed wrong and a team punished because the league changes there mind and never thought of this in the first place. Just my opinion but I think if this rule will be changed these contracts will have to be grandfathered in. If not I agree with the poster above what team would sign anybody longer then the length of the current cba.
This is a huge incentive to sign players semi longterm before they turn 35. Im not sure if thats a loophole more than an incentive.


Last edited by solo16: 06-15-2009 at 04:25 PM.
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Old
06-15-2009, 03:02 PM
  #61
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If Holland pulls this off, he's a God.

I hope that the Pens get Hossa back, but they'll have to trade Staal to make room.

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Old
06-15-2009, 03:57 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
Right.... just like Detroit was going to suck when they lost Yzerman.... Detroit will figure out a way to win without Lidstrom. They have been drafting a surplus of Goaltenders and Defensemen as of late so by the time he retires we hope we don't miss him too much. But besides Lidstrom most of the Vets on Detroit are liabilities not assets. If you have watched Draper or Maltby or Chelios this season you would be wondering why they are still in the NHL. Once Draper is replaced with Helm and Malbty with Abdelkader Detroit will be even better offensively.

Detroit will always be atop the standings as long as Holland and Co. are still their.

Well in 7ish years the cap is hopefully going to rise quite a bit that the hit won't be very much. Besides having players like Datsyuk Zetterberg Franzen and Hossa on your 3rd and 4th line is great because they will be killing penalties and can still score. Besides their veteran presence and experience is invaluable to younger in the organization.
This has homerism written all over it. Detroit has about 3 years of still being one of the top teams and then they will be a average team after.Holland and co. apparently can make no mistakes lol. Every team has to rebuild/retool, for u it will happen in a few years.

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06-15-2009, 04:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SenatorArmy View Post
I think Hossa wants to go to a future contender. I don't think he considers Detroit that team. They may have a crack at it next year, but once LIdstrom retires & some of Detroits other vets, there's a big question mark about their ability to compete at that same level. I'm not sure what team he thinks will be that contender, but Pittsburgh springs to mind Maybe he signs with a team like Chicago, Or San Jose or Boston or who knows
How on earth is Detroit not a future contender? Like Holland said, Lidstrom still has another good 3-4 years left in him. But beyond him, they have guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Stuart in their prime... with up and coming young players like Helm, Ericsson, Leino, Abdelkader, Kindl, etc. Even Rafalski has some good years left in him (as does Osgood). Add Hossa to this group long-term, and you're telling me that's not a future contender? Okay...

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06-15-2009, 04:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
This has homerism written all over it. Detroit has about 3 years of still being one of the top teams and then they will be a average team after.Holland and co. apparently can make no mistakes lol. Every team has to rebuild/retool, for u it will happen in a few years.
Do you know how many times we've heard that as Wings fans? I'll believe it when I see it.

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06-15-2009, 04:21 PM
  #65
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BTW, no way Holland signs Hossa to a $4 million cap hit... $5 million sounds much more reasonable, and is still doable as well.

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06-15-2009, 04:45 PM
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That $4 million figure seemed more like the article's author's wishful thinking than based on anything in reality. There is zero indication that that offer had been made or would be made.

If anything it sounded like Holland was going to lowball Hossa and if he took it fine, but fully expects him to walk. Hossa's comments were not all that positive either.

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06-15-2009, 05:18 PM
  #67
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I doubt Hossa is a Wing next year. It just won't work. He'll want too much money. Obviously it'd be nice to have the Hoss instead of Hudler/Samuelson but I think Marian has realized that this is probably his last oppurtunity for a big payday. He'll go to a team that promises to build a contender around him. Edmonton or maybe LA come to mind.

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06-15-2009, 05:28 PM
  #68
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He should go to Pit and try and win a cup

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06-15-2009, 05:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Phuthbert86 View Post
I doubt Hossa is a Wing next year. It just won't work. He'll want too much money. Obviously it'd be nice to have the Hoss instead of Hudler/Samuelson but I think Marian has realized that this is probably his last oppurtunity for a big payday. He'll go to a team that promises to build a contender around him. Edmonton or maybe LA come to mind.
Hes made just under 35M so far in his career. That includes almost 15M in the last two years. Im not so sure $$ is his top motivation. A 10x4M deal would still put another 40M in his pocket. 75M for a career is not so shabby. That being said 85M is probably a more realistic number with a 5M cap hit. For reference Chelios made just under 50M in his entire career.

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06-15-2009, 05:46 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HenrikZ40 View Post
How on earth is Detroit not a future contender? Like Holland said, Lidstrom still has another good 3-4 years left in him. But beyond him, they have guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Stuart in their prime... with up and coming young players like Helm, Ericsson, Leino, Abdelkader, Kindl, etc. Even Rafalski has some good years left in him (as does Osgood). Add Hossa to this group long-term, and you're telling me that's not a future contender? Okay...
The problem is: How many years will these guys be content to play for peanuts?

By 2011-2012 all of these guys will be making much more than they do right now if they pan out. With Lidstrom and Hossa added into the mix you would be looking at between $45-48M on ten contracts (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Kronwall, Stuart , Cleary and Rafalski) with no goalie. If the cap falls in 2010-2011, it is reasonable to expect the 2011-2012 number may be not much more than the $56.7M cap from this year. That leaves you about $12M max for 12 roster spots including Helm, Ericsson, Leino, Abdelkader, Kindl, etc and a starting goalie.

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06-15-2009, 05:51 PM
  #71
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Any GM who signs any player to more than a 8 year contract as is a complete moron.

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06-15-2009, 05:52 PM
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Does anyone think the league will step in and get rid of the cap hit and make how much the players are making that season. It's jut something I could see being brought up.

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06-15-2009, 06:12 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
This has homerism written all over it. Detroit has about 3 years of still being one of the top teams and then they will be a average team after.Holland and co. apparently can make no mistakes lol. Every team has to rebuild/retool, for u it will happen in a few years.
Like we rebuilt when Stevie left?

How's logic working for ya?

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06-15-2009, 06:25 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
6x6MM than 1MM for the final 4? is that even doable?

There could also be a scenario where he plays out the first few years and when the cap starts getting higher again they buy him out and re-sign him to a new deal, giving him more money while keeping the cap hit relatively low.
You can't buy out and then resign a player.

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06-15-2009, 06:43 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
This has homerism written all over it. Detroit has about 3 years of still being one of the top teams and then they will be a average team after.Holland and co. apparently can make no mistakes lol. Every team has to rebuild/retool, for u it will happen in a few years.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=591240

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