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list of possible Heatley destinations

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Old
06-15-2009, 04:36 PM
  #51
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Heck, even the Islanders won 4 cups already. There are other factors. San Jose is a piece or two from being top-notch contenders. In fact they are already, if they stay healthy and don't play Anaheim in round 1. One would think that Heatley instead of Marleau and/or Cheechoo as a finisher for Jumbo Joe would be a good start. San Jose is also not on the top of the list of undesirable trading destinations.
Because 30 years ago = 4 years ago amirite????

San Jose has been considered top notch contenders for years now and have fallen short every single post season. They were 1 peice away until they got Boyle, Blake, a new Coach and the emergence of Setoguchi.

Now they have no excuses for the 1st round exit.

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06-15-2009, 04:44 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Ok, now you're just trolling.

No team in the league would even consider giving up 2 players on the level of hemsky and gagner for heatley. Edmonton gets instantly worse in the short and long term.
Ah, so how badly does Tamby want Heatley? To win the sweepstakes, there would have to be some sort of overpayment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Because 30 years ago = 4 years ago amirite????

San Jose has been considered top notch contenders for years now and have fallen short every single post season. They were 1 peice away until they got Boyle, Blake, a new Coach and the emergence of Setoguchi.

Now they have no excuses for the 1st round exit.
My point exactly. Past playoff success is meaningless. San Jose is a lot closer to being cup favorites than Edmonton right now. Perhaps Heatley is the guy would put them over the top. We'll see. San Jose's coach has more cup rings than Pat Quinn, btw.

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06-15-2009, 04:50 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Ah, so how badly does Tamby want Heatley? To win the sweepstakes, there would have to be some sort of overpayment.
Ok, now this is where we disagree. Heatley will not be overpaid for in any way. Look at what Pronger got as return. And he was a better player with no NTC with a better contract.

There's all of 4 teams that have the assets to move for Heatley and have the cap space to pick him up. People are going to be very underwhelmed at what Heatley returns.

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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
My point exactly. Past playoff success is meaningless. San Jose is a lot closer to being cup favorites than Edmonton right now. Perhaps Heatley is the guy would put them over the top. We'll see. San Jose's coach has more cup rings than Pat Quinn, btw.
If you can't see how the recent past, with much of the team left intact or better now (With the obvious exception of Pronger) is more relevant than a 100% new roster with nothing kept the same, I can't really help you.

As for the bolded part... how is that relevant in any way? He got a ring as an assistant coach and then got knocked out in his first round as head coach with the best team in the league.

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06-15-2009, 04:54 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Ah, so how badly does Tamby want Heatley? To win the sweepstakes, there would have to be some sort of overpayment.
There is no overpaying when a player requests a trade, it just won't happen. And why would we need to overpay? How many teams are in on this... 4? Edmonton has the assets to get it done.

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06-15-2009, 04:55 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
1) there have been numerous threads and proposals, but it seems unlikely that many teams can take on Heatley's contract without sending a lot of money back.

Financially, which teams have the ability to add a 7.5 mill long term contract?

2) Heatley is owed 4 mill on July 1 and the Sens are pushing to trade him prior to that date.

Financially, which teams will take on that 4 mill hit without causing the owners to wince?
1) Ottawa was perfectly willing to pay out $7.5M this season in cap space... and I'm sure would be perfectly willing to pay $7.5M to the guys the other team gives up. So any team who wants Heatley can make an offer.

2) He gets a total of $8M this season, $4M this July 1st. It's not some extra expense... it's merely salary paid early.
Not to mention that by paying Heatley $10M last year, the Sens are already $2.5M in the hole on his contract. So even if the new team pays the bonus, they will only be paying Heatley an average of $7M a year in salary.

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Old
06-15-2009, 04:57 PM
  #56
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Gagner
1st
Gilbert

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:04 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
Gagner
1st
Gilbert
no, that is horrible overpayment from EDM.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:05 PM
  #58
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Gagner
1st
Gilbert
That's a pretty good deal for Ottawa

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06-15-2009, 05:05 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Ok, now this is where we disagree. Heatley will not be overpaid for in any way. Look at what Pronger got as return. And he was a better player with no NTC with a better contract.

There's all of 4 teams that have the assets to move for Heatley and have the cap space to pick him up. People are going to be very underwhelmed at what Heatley returns.



If you can't see how the recent past, with much of the team left intact or better now (With the obvious exception of Pronger) is more relevant than a 100% new roster with nothing kept the same, I can't really help you.

As for the bolded part... how is that relevant in any way? He got a ring as an assistant coach and then got knocked out in his first round as head coach with the best team in the league.
I've been saying that Heatley isn't even considering Edmonton, but if he is it's because Murray is begging him to waive his NTC so he can take Edmonton's overpayment. Ottawa shouldn't get too much, though. We'll see.

Um, Edmonton without Pronger hasn't accomplished all that much. Perhaps they should work a trade to get him back rather than focusing on Heatley.

Quinn's 'winning credentials' are limited to stacked Team Canadas, while San Jose is a President's Trophy team that probably wouldn't have been at the top without their new coach. Point being, it's the team that makes the coach. And San Jose's is better right now. Thus, Heatley is probably heavily considering San Jose, but not Edmonton.

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06-15-2009, 05:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
I've been saying that Heatley isn't even considering Edmonton, but if he is it's because Murray is begging him to waive his NTC so he can take Edmonton's overpayment. Ottawa shouldn't get too much, though. We'll see.
Based on nothing. Edmonton is not going to overpay to get Heatley to waive his NTC. Either he does or he doesn't. If he decides to and Edmonton has the best offer on the table, that's where he's going. End of story.

If anything, Heatley would be less likely to waive his NTC if Edmonton overpays because that means they would be a weaker team when he gets there and go against his desire to go to a better team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Um, Edmonton without Pronger hasn't accomplished all that much. Perhaps they should work a trade to get him back rather than focusing on Heatley.
Exactly. Pronger is THAT big a difference on a team. And look what he returned.

What is heatley? He's an elite one dimensional winger playing with a superstar centre and right winger. He will automatically upgrade a team... but not to the degree Pronger does.

And Pronger returned a promising forward, defenseman, 1st and conditional 1st. So expect less than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Quinn's 'winning credentials' are limited to stacked Team Canadas, while San Jose is a President's Trophy team that probably wouldn't have been at the top without their new coach. Point being, it's the team that makes the coach. And San Jose's is better right now. Thus, Heatley is probably heavily considering San Jose, but not Edmonton.
Completely subjective. San Jose has been near the top of the league for the last several year and made some amazing additions this year (Boyle, Blake) as well as having one of their prospects blossom excellently (Setoguchi).

It's very likely their old coach could have got them the president's trophy with all the improvements over their last team.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
no, that is horrible overpayment from EDM.
How? I understand Gagner is well liked, but I cannot see the big difference between him and Cogliano, who everyone loves to throw into the deal

Then I guess Cogliano, Gilbert and a 1st is an overpayment as well?

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06-15-2009, 05:40 PM
  #62
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Well look at that, Ryan Rishaug from TSN was just on The Team 1260 and confirmed (once again) that sources close to Heatley that he will lift his NTC to come to the Oilers.

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06-15-2009, 05:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
How? I understand Gagner is well liked, but I cannot see the big difference between him and Cogliano, who everyone loves to throw into the deal

Then I guess Cogliano, Gilbert and a 1st is an overpayment as well?
There is a reason why Cogs was drafted as a late first rounder and Gags was a early first rounder. There is also a reason Gags was in the NHL at 18 and Cogs was in the NHL at 21. They may seem comparable right now but do not be mistaken Gags projects to be the better player. I love Cogs but he is no Gags.

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06-15-2009, 05:52 PM
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Well look at that, Ryan Rishaug from TSN was just on The Team 1260 and confirmed (once again) that sources close to Heatley that he will lift his NTC to come to the Oilers.
Heard it as well he also said the Oilers appear to be very aggressive and are eager to find out what it takes to make the deal go through. Garrioch's article was dismissed as just being another Garrioch article. He is a joke to the real Hockey insiders.

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06-15-2009, 05:52 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Based on nothing. Edmonton is not going to overpay to get Heatley to waive his NTC. Either he does or he doesn't. If he decides to and Edmonton has the best offer on the table, that's where he's going. End of story.

If anything, Heatley would be less likely to waive his NTC if Edmonton overpays because that means they would be a weaker team when he gets there and go against his desire to go to a better team.



Exactly. Pronger is THAT big a difference on a team. And look what he returned.

What is heatley? He's an elite one dimensional winger playing with a superstar centre and right winger. He will automatically upgrade a team... but not to the degree Pronger does.

And Pronger returned a promising forward, defenseman, 1st and conditional 1st. So expect less than that.



Completely subjective. San Jose has been near the top of the league for the last several year and made some amazing additions this year (Boyle, Blake) as well as having one of their prospects blossom excellently (Setoguchi).

It's very likely their old coach could have got them the president's trophy with all the improvements over their last team.
Edmonton's urgency to get Heatley means they'll overpay (ie. 'have the best offer on the table') to get him. It's not like they can just go out and sign somebody equivalent.

Good point about Heatley not wanting to waive his NTC to go to Edmonton because they'll be a weaker team.

Heatley in Ottawa is playing with a superstar center and right wing. In Edmonton he'd be playing with Horcoff (*cough*) and Hemsky. In San Jose he'd be playing with Thornton and Setoguchi. Hmmmm...

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06-15-2009, 05:54 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Edmonton's urgency to get Heatley means they'll overpay (ie. 'have the best offer on the table') to get him. It's not like they can just go out and sign somebody equivalent.

Good point about Heatley not wanting to waive his NTC to go to Edmonton because they'll be a weaker team.

Heatley in Ottawa is playing with a superstar center and right wing. In Edmonton he'd be playing with Horcoff (*cough*) and Hemsky. In San Jose he'd be playing with Thornton and Setoguchi. Hmmmm...
You are proving with every post you know very little.

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Old
06-15-2009, 05:54 PM
  #67
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Count Vancouver out. Thats twice, hes asked to be traded when the team is going through difficult times. It's pretty obvious what type of character he is.
wanting out of atlanta had nothing to do with the team's success level

he had just crashed his car and killed a teammate and friend, if you had done that you'd probably want to put some distance between yourself and the place it happened too if you could.

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06-15-2009, 06:02 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Edmonton's urgency to get Heatley means they'll overpay (ie. 'have the best offer on the table') to get him. It's not like they can just go out and sign somebody equivalent.
Yeah. Because Gaborik and Hossa aren't UFAs this year.

Edmonton's supposed urgency to get him is less than ottawa's urgency to get the so-called "locker room cancer" who doesn't want to play for them out of there.

Ottawa is in the position of weakness, not the oilers. If the oilers fails to acquire Heatley cheap Tambo will just ask Katz for permission to throw money at Gaborik or Hossa or just hold out for Jagr. The very worst out come of not signing someone is another high draft pick next year.

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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Good point about Heatley not wanting to waive his NTC to go to Edmonton because they'll be a weaker team.
Way to completely fail at reading comprehension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Heatley in Ottawa is playing with a superstar center and right wing. In Edmonton he'd be playing with Horcoff (*cough*) and Hemsky. In San Jose he'd be playing with Thornton and Setoguchi. Hmmmm...
And yet he wants out. So I guess looking at line mates isn't really his 1st priority because he has the best two he'll ever get right now in Ottawa.

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06-15-2009, 06:45 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
If the oilers fails to acquire Heatley cheap Tambo will just ask Katz for permission to throw money at Gaborik or Hossa or just hold out for Jagr.
The problem is that there is no guarantee that the star players are interested in going to play in EDM even if you throw boatloads of money at them. See Hossa/Jagr for reference. Perhaps even Nylander...

Many Ottawa fans seem to think we can move Heater for picks/prospects then just sign JayBo, Gaborik, Hossa or Havlat, but this isn't a video game here. It is difficult to attract the stars when you are having some trouble with your team. Easier when you have had alot of recent success (see Detroit). Even easier when you have year round surfing instead of 4+ months of snow. (See the California teams).

I think if you have a star who wants to go play in your city (at least for the CDN teams), you should be very interested, and willing to overpay somewhat, unless you can invoke some form of climate change...

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The very worst out come of not signing someone is another high draft pick next year.
Way to set the expectations really low...

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06-15-2009, 07:00 PM
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The problem is that there is no guarantee that the star players are interested in going to play in EDM even if you throw boatloads of money at them. See Hossa/Jagr for reference. Perhaps even Nylander...

Many Ottawa fans seem to think we can move Heater for picks/prospects then just sign JayBo, Gaborik, Hossa or Havlat, but this isn't a video game here. It is difficult to attract the stars when you are having some trouble with your team. Easier when you have had alot of recent success (see Detroit). Even easier when you have year round surfing instead of 4+ months of snow. (See the California teams).

I think if you have a star who wants to go play in your city (at least for the CDN teams), you should be very interested, and willing to overpay somewhat, unless you can invoke some form of climate change...
The oilers have a very strong youth movement//prospect pool right now. Depleting this prospect pool for a player who is apparently a locker room cancer and terribad defensively doesn't sound like a brilliant idea to me.

Now, make no mistake, I would still love Heater on the Oilers. He could make a huge splash with Hemsky who really needs another compotent player who won't waste his brilliant passes. But at a certain point, it just doesn't make sense. Gagner, Gilbert and our 1st? No. I don't care how good heatley is, at that price he makes the team instantly worse and in the future.

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Way to set the expectations really low...
I don't expect Roloson to have another year like he did last year and unless the Oilers get someone like Harding or a game breaker like Gaborik or Heatley, I don't expect them to do significantly better than they did last year. Maybe just creep into the playoffs, probably not.

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06-15-2009, 07:06 PM
  #71
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Ah, so how badly does Tamby want Heatley? To win the sweepstakes, there would have to be some sort of overpayment.


My point exactly. Past playoff success is meaningless. San Jose is a lot closer to being cup favorites than Edmonton right now. Perhaps Heatley is the guy would put them over the top. We'll see. San Jose's coach has more cup rings than Pat Quinn, btw.
what makes you think there is a sweepstakes for Heatley..many teams with cap space would prefer to add a UFA like Gaborik without giving up assets


there are few teams willing to take on his cap hit and many gm's would think twice about adding a player that has twice asked to be traded....

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06-15-2009, 07:11 PM
  #72
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LA could just sign Gaborik and not give up any assets.

There is no bidding war for Heatley.

Most teams have either salary cap issues or GM's that value character.

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06-15-2009, 07:18 PM
  #73
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LA could just sign Gaborik and not give up any assets.

There is no bidding war for Heatley.

Most teams have either salary cap issues or GM's that value character.
Maybe not a full-fledged bidding war but there is something.

Neither Gaborik nor Hossa have scored 50 goals in their career, let alone in back to back seasons.

Needless to say, you can't discount what Heatley's done stats-wise in the past and that's what will make him more valuable than some UFAs. There are teams that are willing to take on some attitude in exchange for 40-50 goals.

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06-15-2009, 07:22 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by dwight View Post
LA could just sign Gaborik and not give up any assets.

There is no bidding war for Heatley.

Most teams have either salary cap issues or GM's that value character.
Some desperate GM out there will gun for him. You can question his character but you can't discount the fact that he is a heck of a player.

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06-15-2009, 07:24 PM
  #75
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Maybe not a full-fledged bidding war but there is something.

Neither Gaborik nor Hossa have scored 50 goals in their career, let alone in back to back seasons.

Needless to say, you can't discount what Heatley's done stats-wise in the past and that's what will make him more valuable than some UFAs. There are teams that are willing to take on some attitude in exchange for 40-50 goals.
I don't think you're going to convince anyone that a healthy Gaborik is worse than Heatley. Heatley was absolutely blessed to be playing with 2 super star line mates in his back to back 50 goal seasons, give me a single player on the level of Spezza and Aflreddson that Gaborik has played a full season with.

As to the second point, you also can't dismiss the fact he just up and asked to be out of ottawa 1 year into his 6 year deal and he is coming off his worst season since his rookie season.

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