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Line Predictions (2009/10 Season)

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Old
07-08-2009, 08:32 PM
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Nodl/Maroon
Afinogenov-Giroux-Powe/Phantom
Asham-Laperriere-Carcillo/Cote

Could get Maxim for maybe $2.5M, or trade Carle to offer Max $3.0. Would love to see Giroux play with Afinogenov.
If we got Afinogenov at 2.5M that would be amazing.

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07-08-2009, 08:51 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Vaananen and Bergeron at 1.5 mil each? Ugh. That's about a million times worse than Jones and Carle. There is a reason why Vaananen got waived at 1 mil and then didn't get much playing time with the Canucks. I can understand giving him another chance at more limited role (as he was playing top pairing), but definitely not at half a mil more than he made last year. And Bergeron is such a liability defensively, he makes Carle and Jones look like Ken Danyeko.
Id expect Bergeron has learned some D under Lemaire, and at least 2 bad d men at 3 million total is better than 2 mediocre D men at 6.25 total.

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07-08-2009, 08:56 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Id expect Bergeron has learned some D under Lemaire, and at least 2 bad d men at 3 million total is better than 2 mediocre D men at 6.25 total.
Not if they become a huge liability and give up scoring chances every time they're on the ice. Besides, there is no reason to give Vaananen anything more than he got last year. In fact, he'd be lucky to get 1 million from any team. Bergeron I can understand getting that kind of dough due to previous contracts, but even if the Flyers were to sign him, I'd want him with a completely defensive dman to cover for him. And one that would be a bit better than Vaananen.

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07-08-2009, 09:07 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Kaberle
Stajan

for

Carle
Hartnell
Maroon

Phili gets to dump lots of salary, easily has the best defence in the league, and gets a 3rd line centre.

They lose Hartnell a second liner that can be replaced by VanReimsdyk, and Carle who they aren't fond of anyways.

Gagne - Richards - Briere
JVR - Carter - Giroux
Carcillo - Stajan - Asham
Powe - Lapierriere - Cote

Pronger - Kaberle
Timonen - Coburn
Parent - Jones
You're aware we're trying to win the cup this year and not focusing on 2012, correct? That's a ballin' defense, but Carter can't man the second line by himself.

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07-08-2009, 09:11 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Not if they become a huge liability and give up scoring chances every time they're on the ice. Besides, there is no reason to give Vaananen anything more than he got last year. In fact, he'd be lucky to get 1 million from any team. Bergeron I can understand getting that kind of dough due to previous contracts, but even if the Flyers were to sign him, I'd want him with a completely defensive dman to cover for him. And one that would be a bit better than Vaananen.
How is that any different from Jones?

I didnt suggest Vaananen, but Id much rather replace our 2 guys with cheaper 3rd pairing guys. They will only get like 12 minutes anyway

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07-08-2009, 10:02 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers View Post
If we got Afinogenov at 2.5M that would be amazing.
THey need to stay as far away from Afinogenov as they possible can....NO WAY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
How is that any different from Jones?

I didnt suggest Vaananen, but Id much rather replace our 2 guys with cheaper 3rd pairing guys. They will only get like 12 minutes anyway
I would take Vaananen back in a heartbeat

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07-08-2009, 10:10 PM
  #282
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I'd take Vaananen at 1 over Jones at 2.75 EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE WEEK.

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07-08-2009, 10:15 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
You're aware we're trying to win the cup this year and not focusing on 2012, correct? That's a ballin' defense, but Carter can't man the second line by himself.
If JVR was capable of putting up 40+ points I think I would accept that.

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07-08-2009, 10:29 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
How is that any different from Jones?

I didnt suggest Vaananen, but Id much rather replace our 2 guys with cheaper 3rd pairing guys. They will only get like 12 minutes anyway
IMO, Jones isn't bad if he gets those 12 minutes. He has shown that he is a capable defenseman (who has even been a key factor in games), but Stevens relies on him for more minutes and PK time. I think most people wouldn't hate him as much if he made a million dollars less than he does. But since he does... he gets crapped on.

I agree we need cheaper 3rd pairing guys, but I disagree with the ones suggested (and I realize you did not suggest them). There has to be some reason why the team waived him instead of Alberts. And there has to be a reason why he didn't play much in Vancouver. I don't think the team needs a guy like MAB at all. If only one (people need to face that both won't be moved) of Jones or Carle is moved, that vacancy needs to be filled by defensive minded d-man. If Carle is moved, I would want someone better than Vaananen to be paired with Jones. If we can't move either, we hope Jones progresses more defensively and hope for the best.

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07-09-2009, 06:56 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
IMO, Jones isn't bad if he gets those 12 minutes. He has shown that he is a capable defenseman (who has even been a key factor in games), but Stevens relies on him for more minutes and PK time. I think most people wouldn't hate him as much if he made a million dollars less than he does. But since he does... he gets crapped on.

I agree we need cheaper 3rd pairing guys, but I disagree with the ones suggested (and I realize you did not suggest them). There has to be some reason why the team waived him instead of Alberts. And there has to be a reason why he didn't play much in Vancouver. I don't think the team needs a guy like MAB at all. If only one (people need to face that both won't be moved) of Jones or Carle is moved, that vacancy needs to be filled by defensive minded d-man. If Carle is moved, I would want someone better than Vaananen to be paired with Jones. If we can't move either, we hope Jones progresses more defensively and hope for the best.
The whole point of not having jones and carle on the team was for the massive 6.2 million cap space that they take up. Giving us that 6.2 million cap space gives us the choice of having two defenseman, one of which played top line minutes here last year incase you forgot? and a defenseman was (for such a massive liability) was a +5 last year with 14 goals, and the added ability to bring JVR to the flyers should he prosper in the phantoms this year.

Vannanan at 1.5 million is not a terrible price to pay for a guy that was on the top pairing last year. He is defensively sound and will only be playing 10-12 minutes a night. MAB gives us a guy that put up 14! goals last year and was a +5 for 1.5 million. I fail to see where that is worse than carle and jones for 3 million dollars cheaper.

Oh and by the way, Jones is hated because of his contract. Everyone knows that. Find me someone (execpt JXC) that thinks jones is worth 2.7 million. Hell, even at 1.7 million he would be expensive.

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07-09-2009, 08:38 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
IMO, Jones isn't bad if he gets those 12 minutes. He has shown that he is a capable defenseman (who has even been a key factor in games), but Stevens relies on him for more minutes and PK time. I think most people wouldn't hate him as much if he made a million dollars less than he does. But since he does... he gets crapped on.

I agree we need cheaper 3rd pairing guys, but I disagree with the ones suggested (and I realize you did not suggest them). There has to be some reason why the team waived him instead of Alberts. And there has to be a reason why he didn't play much in Vancouver. I don't think the team needs a guy like MAB at all. If only one (people need to face that both won't be moved) of Jones or Carle is moved, that vacancy needs to be filled by defensive minded d-man. If Carle is moved, I would want someone better than Vaananen to be paired with Jones. If we can't move either, we hope Jones progresses more defensively and hope for the best.
Yeah, but I did suggest MAB a few days ago. He was great when he played with Pronger. Give him soft minutes and then PP time with Pronger.

Alberts-MAB would be fine for 12 minutes. I really think MAB has learned a bit of D in Minny. He got 16.5 minutes(13 at even strength) a game was was +5. I hate +/- but most of the other D were minuses, so at least he held his own in soft minutes. Less giveaways than most of our D men

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Old
07-09-2009, 08:52 AM
  #287
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GAGNE RICHARDS GIROUX
HARTNELL CARTER LAPERRIERE
VANRIEMSDYK BRIERE SHANAHAN
CARCILLO POWE ASHAM

PRONGER COBURN
TIMONEN PARENT
CARLE MARSHALL

-dump jones
-bring up marshall
-sign shanny

-strong 1st scoring line..
-good 2nd line with checking presence..
-good 3rd line with rookie and 2 vets..
-good 4th line checking that can still score..

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Old
07-09-2009, 09:16 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langerrr View Post
GAGNE RICHARDS GIROUX
HARTNELL CARTER LAPERRIERE
VANRIEMSDYK BRIERE SHANAHAN
CARCILLO POWE ASHAM

PRONGER COBURN
TIMONEN PARENT
CARLE MARSHALL

-dump jones
-bring up marshall
-sign shanny

-strong 1st scoring line..
-good 2nd line with checking presence..
-good 3rd line with rookie and 2 vets..
-good 4th line checking that can still score..

I actually dont hate that line-up minus Carle/marshall. would rather dump carle and resign alberts.

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Old
07-09-2009, 09:19 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langerrr View Post
GAGNE RICHARDS GIROUX
HARTNELL CARTER LAPERRIERE
VANRIEMSDYK BRIERE SHANAHAN
CARCILLO POWE ASHAM

PRONGER COBURN
TIMONEN PARENT
CARLE MARSHALL

-dump jones
-bring up marshall
-sign shanny

-strong 1st scoring line..
-good 2nd line with checking presence..
-good 3rd line with rookie and 2 vets..
-good 4th line checking that can still score..
First, swap Coburn and Parent.
Second, I might swap Lappy and Shanahan in this scenario. However, thats debatable.

Also, I would leave Marshall/Bourdan/AHL'er as a callup when Jones gets hurt.

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07-09-2009, 09:24 AM
  #290
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Really sorry if I am totally out of the loop on this one, but did we actually sign Backlund??? I keep seeing all this discussion of him on the board.

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07-09-2009, 09:29 AM
  #291
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yeah Backlund is signed to a 1 year 800k contract, two way

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Old
07-09-2009, 09:36 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
yeah Backlund is signed to a 1 year 800k contract, two way
Cool thanks...I couldnt find anything about it.

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Old
07-09-2009, 09:40 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Flyers View Post
If we got Afinogenov at 2.5M that would be amazing.
After this season, Max would be lucky to get 1.5M a year. He will probably end up in KHL next year.

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07-09-2009, 09:45 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
If JVR was capable of putting up 40+ points I think I would accept that.
You want to risk our Cup run on the hope that a kid who was over his head in the AHL last year can put up 40 points in the NHL this year? I'm all for good defense and a good checking line, but look no further than 1997 to see how far one good line and a second good center gets you.

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07-09-2009, 03:35 PM
  #295
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Hard to do without throwing out there a UFA I would sign. I'll leave 4th line center blank for now assuming homer addresses the hole.

Gagne Richards Briere
Hartnell Carter Giroux
Carcillo Powe Lapperriere
Cote X Asham

Timonen Coburn
Pronger Parent
Carle Jones

Marshall or MAB as call ups

Emery
Backlund or Boucher (whichever makes camp)

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Old
07-09-2009, 05:06 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The whole point of not having jones and carle on the team was for the massive 6.2 million cap space that they take up. Giving us that 6.2 million cap space gives us the choice of having two defenseman, one of which played top line minutes here last year incase you forgot? and a defenseman was (for such a massive liability) was a +5 last year with 14 goals, and the added ability to bring JVR to the flyers should he prosper in the phantoms this year.

Vannanan at 1.5 million is not a terrible price to pay for a guy that was on the top pairing last year. He is defensively sound and will only be playing 10-12 minutes a night. MAB gives us a guy that put up 14! goals last year and was a +5 for 1.5 million. I fail to see where that is worse than carle and jones for 3 million dollars cheaper.

Oh and by the way, Jones is hated because of his contract. Everyone knows that. Find me someone (execpt JXC) that thinks jones is worth 2.7 million. Hell, even at 1.7 million he would be expensive.
Alright, alright. Maybe I was wrong about Bergeron and he has become better defensively. But if that is the case, there is no way he signs for less than he made last year (he made somewhere around 1.6 last year), in fact he could be getting a good chunk more from someone if he has been playing better in Minny. But I'm not budging on Ossi. Something irks me about him. We all saw that he was playing decent with Timonen, yet he was the one to get waived, not Alberts. Why? And then he didn't get much playing time in Vancouver, which also irks me. There is absolutely no reason to give him more money.

If I had to chose one of Jones or Carle to go, it'd be Carle. Jones is only on the hook for one more year, and he is a better third pairing guy. If the Flyers could dump Carle and re-sign Alberts, I'd be very satisfied.

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07-13-2009, 12:19 PM
  #297
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To excavate this old thread because I have a few new thoughts. Basically the top six is finished and we know who will play on it, but not exactly who play's with who.

The current prediction is this:
Gagne - Richards - Briere
Hartnell - Carter - Giroux

Now this looks decent. However, we did have the Gagne - Richards - Briere line at the beginning of last season and it didn't work out as well as expected, even though I think much has to be blamed on the team in general as the lines below it were quite a mess.

However, I recently was reminded of this as I stumbled across it on YouTube:


How the first part of the video isn't really important but the goals resulting of Briere setting up Giroux and later Giroux setting up Gagne are a sight to behold. We also already know that Gagne and Briere work very well togehter. I would really like to know what Gagne, Giroux and Briere could do if they played a whole year long together. I think a combination of those three francophones could be rather excellent. I also think that Briere does much better when he plays center than when he plays wing.

So it would look like this:
Gagne - Briere - Giroux
Hartnell - Richards - Carter

Now the second line would also be rather interesting because I think Carter could do very well playing wing. He did so in World Juniors and was brilliant to the point where TSN included him as a wing in their all-world juniors team on the first line because he is 2nd all-time in goalscoring in the WJ tournaments.


What speaks against this set up though is that Stevens does like to put his lines in a three man group including a scorer, a set up guy and a grit player.

Last year it was:
Gagne (scorer) - Richards (setup) - Knuble (grit)
Hartnell (grit) - Carter (scorer) - Lupul (setup)

While in the prediction above, Richards could play the role of the grit and leave the setup duty to Briere, my line combination would leave the grit out of the first line as there is no really physical player on it and the second line would, if Carter becomes as physical as his stature would allow him, would be almost too gritty.

I personally like the setup-scorer-grit combination of lines. However, the sheer goal scoring prowess and pure magic that could result from establishing this particular french connection on the first line might outweigh the benefits of having the line more gritty.

Thoughts?

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:23 PM
  #298
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Now this looks decent. However, we did have the Gagne - Richards - Briere line at the beginning of last season and it didn't work out as well as expected, even though I think much has to be blamed on the team in general as the lines below it were quite a mess.
I think the primary downside of Gagne-Richards-Briere together last year was secondary scoring. IIRC that line was scoring just fine, the others were not. The emergence of Carter and Giroux should allow for an equally dangerous second line.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:24 PM
  #299
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Im just worried that Gagne-Giroux-Briere would be too soft, but I'd be willing to try it

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07-13-2009, 12:25 PM
  #300
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Im just worried that Gagne-Giroux-Briere would be too soft, but I'd be willing to try it
That's why I'd like to split Hartnell and Richards between the two scoring lines.

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