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Old
09-02-2009, 04:33 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
The general consensus was that despite that lines success, Lupul would be a better fit with a playmaker and not Jeff "puck hog" Carter. Carter basically shoots whenever he has an opportunity, the reason Hartnell is so effective on that line is because he crashes the net and bangs in rebounds from Carter's shot. A complementary player like Carcillo can also play a similar role to Hartnell's, although he is not nearly as skilled. I never would put Carcillo on a line with Giroux and Briere, their styles are not conducive to each others. I never said Carcillo was an offensive star, far from it; however to say that Carcillo does not have the ability to play in the top 9 is wrong. He can very well put up near 30 points riding of the coattails of Carter and Hartnell.

Pyorala is definitely here to play in the NHL, whether that is in scoring capacity or not. From what I've heard about Pyorala, he seems like he would be a nice fit with Briere and Giroux. If in the end he is not capable of playing in that role, Powe can always be used.

The last two years have been an anomaly in terms of our offensive depth. No team can sustain that in a salary cap world. If it is true that Stevens intends to play three scoring lines, it would be best to "pair" up players, and then assign complementary players. Laperriere has the defensive skills to help create a shut down line with Gagne and Richards. Laperriere can fill the role Knuble did last year on that line, albeit without the same skill. If he puts up half the points Knuble did (something not out of reach) then we are fine.

While bringing in another top 9 player would be nice, it is not necessary. The team has the pieces to role three scoring lines, even if they are not a skilled as last years.
Well I guess I was one of the few that didnt mind Lupul on that line. One of the reasons that line worked is because players worried about Lupul scoring. That gave Carter space to charge in and score.

You are forgetting accouple of things. Lappy will not be getting first line pp time where Knuble got alot of his points. So even half of Knuble's points is a stretch.

There is no reason to have the same player in Hartnell with Carter. Does Carter shoot alot, yes, but you dont go putting a player that is mainly an agitator on a line with them. You want him to do what Hartnell does, then who does what Lupul did? Lupul would constantly act like he was going to shoot and give it to Carter. He was the decoy because of his good wristshot.

Do you truely beleive that a top 9 consisting of Powe, Lappy, and Carcillo is good? Carcillo hasnt showed anything, Powe is more of a checking and speed type of player, and Lappy is getting slower game. Lappy + Carcillo = agitators. I know alot of people like that "they can protect our stars" type of thing, but you dont see other teams putting thugs in their top 6.


I 100% hope we pick up one more player. If not, I hope JVR/Maroon/Kaspar are ready for top 6 mins. You need players that can put points up in your top 6, especially on our best even strength line. You dont go putting a player who hit 24 points on the top line and pp unit in Phoenix and hope he hits 30.



When we hit injuries (and every year we do) what are we gonna do? We already have Lappy and Carcillo in our top 6. We then have to bring in kids to help share the load. I think if we bring in one more player, he can help share the load and pressure off of the kids.

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09-02-2009, 04:36 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I like the idea of Carcillo on the 2nd line. Firstly no one would dare mess with carter. Secondly I am not sure if it was just me but 9 times out of 10 when carter was in the offensive zone with the puck he shot it. If you want to say he needs a speedster who can keep up with him that would be one thing, but I wouldn't see a giant dropoff in 2nd line points unless carcillo is in the box :-p
Carcillo isnt getting 50 points no matter who he plays with....

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09-02-2009, 04:39 PM
  #703
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Are we really considering giving Carcillo top-6 minutes? I mean, seriously?

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09-02-2009, 05:05 PM
  #704
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Are we really considering giving Carcillo top-6 minutes? I mean, seriously?
1a, 1b, 1c

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09-02-2009, 05:34 PM
  #705
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Well I guess I was one of the few that didnt mind Lupul on that line. One of the reasons that line worked is because players worried about Lupul scoring. That gave Carter space to charge in and score.

You are forgetting accouple of things. Lappy will not be getting first line pp time where Knuble got alot of his points. So even half of Knuble's points is a stretch.

There is no reason to have the same player in Hartnell with Carter. Does Carter shoot alot, yes, but you dont go putting a player that is mainly an agitator on a line with them. You want him to do what Hartnell does, then who does what Lupul did? Lupul would constantly act like he was going to shoot and give it to Carter. He was the decoy because of his good wristshot.

Do you truely beleive that a top 9 consisting of Powe, Lappy, and Carcillo is good? Carcillo hasnt showed anything, Powe is more of a checking and speed type of player, and Lappy is getting slower game. Lappy + Carcillo = agitators. I know alot of people like that "they can protect our stars" type of thing, but you dont see other teams putting thugs in their top 6.


I 100% hope we pick up one more player. If not, I hope JVR/Maroon/Kaspar are ready for top 6 mins. You need players that can put points up in your top 6, especially on our best even strength line. You dont go putting a player who hit 24 points on the top line and pp unit in Phoenix and hope he hits 30.



When we hit injuries (and every year we do) what are we gonna do? We already have Lappy and Carcillo in our top 6. We then have to bring in kids to help share the load. I think if we bring in one more player, he can help share the load and pressure off of the kids.
Knuble had 26 even strength points, something that is completely possible for Laperriere to attain. I would predict around 30+ points playing with Richards and Gagne, while providing solid defense.

Were not in a position to put a sniper next to Carter to open him up. Doing so would make our other lines dysfunctional. However, how often would Lupul be the first player in the zone, allowing for Carter to get open? Most of the time Carter would rush into the zone and shoot. If Lupul were so pivotal to Carter's success, he would have had a lot more then 25 assists.

Would you prefer to dump Pronger, (who had more points then Knuble) and bring back Knuble and Lupul? You can't afford to have a sick deep 9 (as a said before it was an anomaly) and a sick defense. Laperriere is servicable in a top 9 role, Carcillo is also servicable and he is also improving. They are both stop gaps untill JVR can come in with his cheap contract. You forget Pyorala, who many people believe can play in a top 9 role. Remember that we will now have Giroux and Briere playing full seasons. Gioux+Briere+Pronger will score more points then Knuble+Lupul+Upshall. Also, has Kaspar shown anything more then Carcillo? Actually, he has shown less. He failed to put up points playing with Thornton. The reason JVR should not play for the team is because he needs to develop more. When injuries happen, he will be allowed to step up; however, until that is necessary, it is best to not rush his development.

Carcillo didn't play top line minute in Pheonix, or on the first power play unit.

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09-02-2009, 06:00 PM
  #706
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I would never give up Pronger for Knuble and Lupul (I was one of those that hated Lupul anyway), BUT, I would definately give up Carle or Jones for say Sykora. We are spending far too much on two defensman who could easily be moved. Maybe not for a high pick but for something. There are a few guys still avail to sign if we needed a 7th ins guy and Tolefsson and Syvret would be just fine as a 6th and 7th to start the season. The Phantoms are going to have a stacked blueline this year and at least helf of those guys wouldn't scare me in a callup role.

Right now we have no depth at scoring. Either we stack the top 2 lines and when one is injured we have no-one to put in there, or we spread it out to 3 lines and have marginal guys with them.

Who knows, maybe Maroon or JVR are totally ready for top 6 minutes but I kinda doubt it. The off season can be funny for sure. Powe was a third line AHLer a year ago today and now he's probably the Flyers 7th best scoring threat on forward. But just because that happened last year doesn't mean it will happen this year. I guess since there are still some options out there Homer can take his time a bit and see if one of those 3 or 4 guys have developed enough and then sign someone if they haven't, but time is definately running out. I kinda wish we had kept Greentree. Didn't he have like a 50 goal year or something in the AHL?

The biggest reason I don't like Carcillo with Carter isn't necessarily the quality of play he brings but his penalties. That line would be disrupted more often then not and have no flow. Between Hartnell and Carcillo both being off a lot Carter would be with new linemates all the time.

I'd be happy with one signing that shores up the scoring a bit. 15 to 20 goals would be ideal and doable.

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Old
09-02-2009, 06:03 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
Knuble had 26 even strength points, something that is completely possible for Laperriere to attain. I would predict around 30+ points playing with Richards and Gagne, while providing solid defense.

Were not in a position to put a sniper next to Carter to open him up. Doing so would make our other lines dysfunctional. However, how often would Lupul be the first player in the zone, allowing for Carter to get open? Most of the time Carter would rush into the zone and shoot. If Lupul were so pivotal to Carter's success, he would have had a lot more then 25 assists.

Would you prefer to dump Pronger, (who had more points then Knuble) and bring back Knuble and Lupul? You can't afford to have a sick deep 9 (as a said before it was an anomaly) and a sick defense. Laperriere is servicable in a top 9 role, Carcillo is also servicable and he is also improving. They are both stop gaps untill JVR can come in with his cheap contract. You forget Pyorala, who many people believe can play in a top 9 role. Remember that we will now have Giroux and Briere playing full seasons. Gioux+Briere+Pronger will score more points then Knuble+Lupul+Upshall. Also, has Kaspar shown anything more then Carcillo? Actually, he has shown less. He failed to put up points playing with Thornton. The reason JVR should not play for the team is because he needs to develop more. When injuries happen, he will be allowed to step up; however, until that is necessary, it is best to not rush his development.

Carcillo didn't play top line minute in Pheonix, or on the first power play unit.
Yes he did... go ask Yote fans? He played next to Doan and Jokenen a good amount of times, but didnt do well. He also was put on the PP which they struggled on. Dont know where you got your info from.

Kaspar had 2 goals and 2 assists playing in 13 games (3 games on Thornton's line) while Carcillo had 4 assists in 20 games (playing around 5+ games next to Giroux/Briere.) Not really shows how better Carcillo is...

Carcillo isnt a top 6 guy, no matter how much he likes to pound people. That's the reason he wasnt top 6 on the damn Coyotes. If he is progressing great, then why did Powe outbeat him on a Top 9 part? Why did Asham out beat him on a Top 9 spot also?



Lappy hit 20 goals once in 17 seasons. What makes you think that a now 35 yr old is going to hit 26 goals. Too many Flyers fans fantasize about the players we get. Players who bairly hit 20 points are now on the Flyers so they should hit 40/50. Thats not how it works. On a team who's even strength was one of the worse in the league, we are not gonna make ****** players good.


I cant believe I am argueing with someone over Carcillo being top 6 on this team... You gotta be kidding me...

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09-02-2009, 06:18 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Yes he did... go ask Yote fans? He played next to Doan and Jokenen a good amount of times, but didnt do well. He also was put on the PP which they struggled on. Dont know where you got your info from.

Kaspar had 2 goals and 2 assists playing in 13 games (3 games on Thornton's line) while Carcillo had 4 assists in 20 games (playing around 5+ games next to Giroux/Briere.) Not really shows how better Carcillo is...

Carcillo isnt a top 6 guy, no matter how much he likes to pound people. That's the reason he wasnt top 6 on the damn Coyotes. If he is progressing great, then why did Powe outbeat him on a Top 9 part? Why did Asham out beat him on a Top 9 spot also?



Lappy hit 20 goals once in 17 seasons. What makes you think that a now 35 yr old is going to hit 26 goals. Too many Flyers fans fantasize about the players we get. Players who bairly hit 20 points are now on the Flyers so they should hit 40/50. Thats not how it works. On a team who's even strength was one of the worse in the league, we are not gonna make ****** players good.


I cant believe I am argueing with someone over Carcillo being top 6 on this team... You gotta be kidding me...
He played next to Doan and Jokenen a good amount of times, but didnt do well. He also was put on the PP which they struggled on. Dont know where you got your info from.

Carcillo isnt a top 6 guy, no matter how much he likes to pound people. That's the reason he wasnt top 6 on the damn Coyotes.

These contradict each other

Ask a San Jose fan, he clearly did not play well and he was let go.

When did I say he would hit 26 goals? Knuble only had 26 even strength points, something Laperriere is capable of attaining.

I've never said he was a top 6, I said that in the event that we role 3 scoring lines he will be able to play sufficiently. It would be great to bring in another top 6 player, however, if that doesn't happen we still be able to role 3 good lines.

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Old
09-02-2009, 06:32 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
He played next to Doan and Jokenen a good amount of times, but didnt do well. He also was put on the PP which they struggled on. Dont know where you got your info from.

Carcillo isnt a top 6 guy, no matter how much he likes to pound people. That's the reason he wasnt top 6 on the damn Coyotes.

These contradict each other

Ask a San Jose fan, he clearly did not play well and he was let go.

When did I say he would hit 26 goals? Knuble only had 26 even strength points, something Laperriere is capable of attaining.

I've never said he was a top 6, I said that in the event that we role 3 scoring lines he will be able to play sufficiently. It would be great to bring in another top 6 player, however, if that doesn't happen we still be able to role 3 good lines.
Thought it said 26 goals. 26 points should be pretty easy. Asham had 20 points playing 3rd/4th line.


And they dont contradict one another. I said he played next to Doan and Jokenen accouple of times (good ammount... same thing), which he did. And then he would be moved back down to 3rd/4th line. I didnt say he played next to those two the whole time... If you dont beleive me, go ask a Coyotes fan where Carcillo played for them. A few would came in when we had a debate about him. I debated so many times about Carcillo its getting sick. Some people make him look like he can easily get 30-40 points and play some top mins for us. He cant and never has. He is an agitator who hits first and makes plays after. He has always been like that and at almost 25, I dont think he will change much.

Thats what I dont understand. Excluding Pronger who plays defense, how is having Carcillo, Lappy, Powe/Pyo in our top 6 make you confident? I know alot of people are hoping that Giroux puts up 70 points and Briere near 80 but what if Giroux hits the Sohpmore slump that alot of players do? Can you count on Lappy/Carcillo to make up for his points? What if Briere gets hurt also? See what I am saying? We had guys to cover for when someone got hurt, now we dont.

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09-02-2009, 06:50 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Thought it said 26 goals. 26 points should be pretty easy. Asham had 20 points playing 3rd/4th line.


And they dont contradict one another. I said he played next to Doan and Jokenen accouple of times (good ammount... same thing), which he did. And then he would be moved back down to 3rd/4th line. I didnt say he played next to those two the whole time... If you dont beleive me, go ask a Coyotes fan where Carcillo played for them. A few would came in when we had a debate about him. I debated so many times about Carcillo its getting sick. Some people make him look like he can easily get 30-40 points and play some top mins for us. He cant and never has. He is an agitator who hits first and makes plays after. He has always been like that and at almost 25, I dont think he will change much.

Thats what I dont understand. Excluding Pronger who plays defense, how is having Carcillo, Lappy, Powe/Pyo in our top 6 make you confident? I know alot of people are hoping that Giroux puts up 70 points and Briere near 80 but what if Giroux hits the Sohpmore slump that alot of players do? Can you count on Lappy/Carcillo to make up for his points? What if Briere gets hurt also? See what I am saying? We had guys to cover for when someone got hurt, now we dont.
To me a good amount of time means more then a couple of times.

I personally think Carcillo will top out at around 30+ points. He wouldn't need to be a main player playing with Carter, merely a secondary option. Carter creates his own scoring opportunities.

If injuries become a major problem with two of our main players missing time, we can always consolidate lines, and call up players who will hopefully be somewhat ready. If push comes to shove, we can always trade for some help.

Gagne-Richards-Pyorala
JVR-Carter-Hartnell
Carcillo- Powe- Laperriere
Kalinksi-Ross-Asham

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09-02-2009, 08:55 PM
  #711
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http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=phi-home-dl

mark bell?

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09-02-2009, 08:57 PM
  #712
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Quote:
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Not a bad gamble, what's the worst that could happen?

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09-03-2009, 04:50 AM
  #713
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Not a bad gamble, what's the worst that could happen?
It's not a bad gamble because it doesn't cost you anything, but it's a complete waste of time.

What happened to Eminger? I guess Eklund blew another one.

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09-03-2009, 08:05 AM
  #714
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Eklund....... A mistake?

Unthinkable.

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09-03-2009, 09:36 AM
  #715
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I was actually hoping they would take a shot on him. I didnt read it completely, is it a tryout without a contract or did they sign him??

Best case scenario he is a poor man's Hartnell.....Worst case and most likely scenario, who cares....

I believe he can play all 3 forward positions as well.

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09-03-2009, 09:45 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
It's not a bad gamble because it doesn't cost you anything, but it's a complete waste of time.

What happened to Eminger? I guess Eklund blew another one.
did you say the same thing about Jim Dowd when he was brought in on a PTO? He signed and filled his role nicely. Bell is younger and seems to have gotten his life back on track, if he get a contract he would be a nice addition

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09-03-2009, 10:08 AM
  #717
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did you say the same thing about Jim Dowd when he was brought in on a PTO? He signed and filled his role nicely. Bell is younger and seems to have gotten his life back on track, if he get a contract he would be a nice addition
I know it is probably a long shot but lets hypothetically say Mark Bell is back on track and returns to the form he showed in 03-04 and 05-06 where he was a decent 2nd line power forward who put up 21 and 25 goals.

We know we are going to have subpar fowards with each pairing assuming we go with the 3 lines.....I think he would fit perfectly with Carter/Hartnell. Two guys surrounding Carter to crash and bang and do the dirty work.

Let Maroon and JVR develop in the minors.

Pyro Giroux Briere (I dont like it but seems like many do)
Bell Carter Hartnell
Gagne Richards Lappy
Carcillo Powe Asham
Cote

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09-03-2009, 10:10 AM
  #718
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Bell could be the 4th line centre, he's better suited for that roll than Ross, or Matsumoto or someone.

Assuming Powe is in the top 9.

Gagne-Richards-Lapperiere
Hartnell-Carter-JVR/Maroon/UFA
Powe-Giroux-Briere
Carcillo-Bell-Asham
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09-03-2009, 10:12 AM
  #719
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Bell could be the 4th line centre, he's better suited for that roll than Ross, or Matsumoto or someone.

Assuming Powe is in the top 9.

Gagne-Richards-Lapperiere
Hartnell-Carter-JVR/Maroon/UFA
Powe-Giroux-Briere
Carcillo-Bell-Asham
Cote
Thats an option too...although I think he was better on the wing if I remember correctly

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09-03-2009, 02:30 PM
  #720
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Well I guess I was one of the few that didnt mind Lupul on that line. One of the reasons that line worked is because players worried about Lupul scoring. That gave Carter space to charge in and score.

You are forgetting accouple of things. Lappy will not be getting first line pp time where Knuble got alot of his points. So even half of Knuble's points is a stretch.

There is no reason to have the same player in Hartnell with Carter. Does Carter shoot alot, yes, but you dont go putting a player that is mainly an agitator on a line with them. You want him to do what Hartnell does, then who does what Lupul did? Lupul would constantly act like he was going to shoot and give it to Carter. He was the decoy because of his good wristshot.

so, by this token then, Hartnell-Carter-Grioux should work no?

I mean, Ive seen people say this wont work because Carter likes to puck hog, but Giroux has way more skill than Lupul does (or Giroux will eventually once he reaches his full potential). Giroux can skate in, be the "decoy" and hand off to Carter.

Giroux is the play maker, Carter the finisher, and Hartnell the grinder.

Top six:
Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux

too bad Stevens has already stated that Giroux will be playing center.

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09-03-2009, 02:46 PM
  #721
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I know it is probably a long shot but lets hypothetically say Mark Bell is back on track and returns to the form he showed in 03-04 and 05-06 where he was a decent 2nd line power forward who put up 21 and 25 goals.

We know we are going to have subpar fowards with each pairing assuming we go with the 3 lines.....I think he would fit perfectly with Carter/Hartnell. Two guys surrounding Carter to crash and bang and do the dirty work.

Let Maroon and JVR develop in the minors.

Pyro Giroux Briere (I dont like it but seems like many do)
Bell Carter Hartnell
Gagne Richards Lappy
Carcillo Powe Asham
Cote
why would you have Bell & Hartnell on the same line?

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09-03-2009, 03:29 PM
  #722
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Someone needs to fill me in on what happened with Bell. Was he injured? On drugs? Attitude? What happened to him to make him fall off so much?

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09-03-2009, 03:35 PM
  #723
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Someone needs to fill me in on what happened with Bell. Was he injured? On drugs? Attitude? What happened to him to make him fall off so much?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bell_%28ice_hockey%29

Quote:
Legal trouble

During the 2006 Labour Day weekend, in Milpitas, California, Bell's rented Camry was traveling an estimated 100 km per hour when it rear-ended a pickup truck at a stop sign driven by Jose Luis Villafana, the latter's vehicle being hit 15 metres up a steep hill and wrapped it around a telephone pole. The victim was uninsured and unlicensed and suffered multiple head, back and leg injuries in the crash. Bell was arrested shortly after walking away from the accident. He blew .201 in a breathalyzer test about a half-hour after the accident, and a blood test revealed a blood-alcohol level of 0.15, considerably higher than the legal limit of 0.08.

Bell was charged with hit and run and driving under the influence.[6] Both are felony offences. His arraignment was set for January 3, 2007.[7] Bell pleaded no contest to drunk driving causing injury and hit-and-run on August 14, 2007. Prior to sentencing, Bell had to pay restitution, including medical bills and the cost of the vehicle to Villafana, who has also filed a civil suit seeking "unlimited damages".[8] He was to serve six months in jail after completing the 2007-08 hockey season but later told to work in a California jail which he did from June 2nd, 2008 to August 15th, 2008.[9]

In addition to his conviction, Bell was placed in Stage 2 of the NHL/NHLPA Substance Abuse Program and was suspended for 15 games without pay by the NHL on September 12, 2007. The Leafs management had anticipated that Bell would face some sort of suspension, however based upon past precedent they did not expect it to be so lengthy. NHL commissioner Gary Bettman justified the suspension, saying "Playing in the National Hockey League is a privilege, and with that privilege comes a corresponding responsibility for exemplary conduct off the ice as well as on it". The NHLPA disagreed, saying "there no legitimate purpose served by adding a substantial league disciplinary suspension to the severe sanctions that have already been imposed". This had been suggested as a sign that the NHL was imposing stricter discipline for off-ice antics of players, after Michael Vick was expelled from the NFL as a result of his conviction for running a dog-fighting ring.[10][11]

Bell has stated that as a result of the accident, realizing that his career was slipping away because of his irresponsibility, he said he changed his lifestyle has been sober since then, saying "Now, every day I wake up I realize I'm living a dream. It's taken a while for me to understand that. Now that I have, I'm going to grab it. My fun now is at the rink".[12]
I like how the article has Mike Vick in it

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Old
09-03-2009, 05:14 PM
  #724
Ex Storm
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
did you say the same thing about Jim Dowd when he was brought in on a PTO? He signed and filled his role nicely. Bell is younger and seems to have gotten his life back on track, if he get a contract he would be a nice addition
I was never Dowd's biggest fan, but I doubt I had an opinion on his training camp tryout. I was looking forward to Eminger coming back, to be honest. Between he and Tollefsen, it would spell the end of Jones.

I don't care what Bell has done to get his life back on track. Last time I saw him on the ice he was ****ing terrible. Always happy to be proven wrong, but I won't get excited until he does something worth getting excited over.

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Old
09-04-2009, 12:02 PM
  #725
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I think I'd pass on Bell now knowing what I read. That said a tryout basis doesn't cost anything except the possibility that some youngster may not get as good of look because of Bells ice time. You'd think though if you throw enough at the wall something would stick. I highly doubt that all of he and Ward (pre injury I wouldn't have minded him as a 4th liner at all), and Kolanos (who was briefly good 8 years ago)have returned to their previous form, but as long as one of them does we'll be O.K.

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