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Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim

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06-17-2009, 08:59 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I don't think the NHL cares all that much about Phoenix if it's proven to be a bad market to their satisfaction.
ok, Brodie, when will we see Balsillie buy the Red Wings and attempt to move then to Hamilton/SO, you might feel a lot different, considering Ontario is right across the Detroit River

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06-17-2009, 09:04 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
no bids can be filed, billy, because Judge Baum won't be hearing anything until then, not w/ FA, AND THE NORMAL operations of the NHL and its members including the Coyotes.
completely untrue, I could file a proposal tomorrow, stating i am willing to pay say 115m for the Coyotes, my proposal is only until August 15, 2009, I am wish to relocate the team to Milwaukee Wisconsin, I ask Judge Baum to have NHL set my relocation fee and vote for my acceptance into NHL by August 1, 2009. Judge Baum would need to deal with it and he can order NHL to have it done by then ( convene BOG meeting)

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06-17-2009, 09:06 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
completely untrue, I could file a proposal tomorrow, stating i am willing to pay say 115m for the Coyotes, my proposal is only until August 15, 2009, I am wish to relocate the team to Milwaukee Wisconsin, I ask Judge Baum to have NHL set my relocation fee and vote for my acceptance into NHL by August 1, 2009. Judge Baum would need to deal with it and he can order NHL to have it done by then ( convene BOG meeting)
I pray you aren't Kirby Schlegel, billy

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06-17-2009, 09:06 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
ok, Brodie, when will we see Balsillie buy the Red Wings and attempt to move then to Hamilton/SO, you might feel a lot different, considering Ontario is right across the Detroit River
Sarcasm aside- Balsillie is trying to move a bankrupt asset, if the Red Wings were bankrupt I think alot of the same issues would be brought up- we may see it soon in quite a few NHL markets

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06-17-2009, 09:09 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
Sarcasm aside- Balsillie is trying to move a bankrupt asset, if the Red Wings were bankrupt I think alot of the same issues would be brought up- we may see it soon in quite a few NHL markets
then we'll see you sitting w/ Delbiaggio, etc, billy in a few years charged w/ fraud.

Balsillie's MO is he wants any franchise to Hamilton, and will not play by the rules in all of the cases since Pittsburgh in '06

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06-17-2009, 09:11 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
I pray you aren't Kirby Schlegel, billy
Hey, Kirby's a good old Ontario boy

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06-17-2009, 09:11 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
Any person can come forward with a proposal and in their proposal they can make deadlines, Judge Baum would then have to look at it, of course taking into account the reasons laid out in his decision of June 15, 2009
That's not the way bankruptcy works. You don't just make an offer and propose dates. PSE's "offer" was part of a motion filed by Moyes and PSE. The motion was to reject the NHL's authority to control relocation. Baum denied the motion.

The auction for the team is now Sep 10. If someone wants a different auction schedule, they will have to do it via legal action. They would need to submit a new motion to Baum and legally defend their position.

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06-17-2009, 09:14 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
completely untrue, I could file a proposal tomorrow, stating i am willing to pay say 115m for the Coyotes, my proposal is only until August 15, 2009, I am wish to relocate the team to Milwaukee Wisconsin, I ask Judge Baum to have NHL set my relocation fee and vote for my acceptance into NHL by August 1, 2009. Judge Baum would need to deal with it and he can order NHL to have it done by then ( convene BOG meeting)
and where do you propose you place a team in WI, billy, if you already have a pro franchise in Milwaukee that's essentially owned by the baseball franchise in said city

Attanasio owns both the Brewers and Admirals, you won't have an ally in Herb Kohl, so that eliminates the Bradley Center completely.

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06-17-2009, 09:15 PM
  #259
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...As far as the Goldwater guys go...
Don't worry about GI. And for those up north who have embraced GI as your new best friend, know they always come in with guns blazing. But they serve a single purpose: stop taxpayer subsidies on the front-end; protect taxpayer interest on the back-end. If GI gets involved in the Coyotes saga, it will side with the city unless someone plans to plunk down the cash to make the city whole on its original investment. And I don't mean just recovering costs of the arena. I mean the projected revenues on the original 30-year deal ($700M+!)

GI is a PITA, unless they are late to the game. And they're late on this one. They'll squawk about how this a perfect example of why taxpayer dollars should never be used in private projects, but it would be devastating to them and their reputation as a watchdog group if their actions result in Glendale taxpayers taking it up the keester (I can't believe I just used the word keester ). TIUTFA is more appropriate but, in retrospect, keester better fits the vocabulary of GI members

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06-17-2009, 09:17 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
That's not the way bankruptcy works. You don't just make an offer and propose dates. PSE's "offer" was part of a motion filed by Moyes and PSE. The motion was to reject the NHL's authority to control relocation. Baum denied the motion.

The auction for the team is now Sep 10. If someone wants a different auction schedule, they will have to do it via legal action. They would need to submit a new motion to Baum and legally defend their position.
The proposal would be a motion, and they can use satisfaction of creditor debt as there starting process

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06-17-2009, 09:17 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Seven years for a new owner if the non-relocation covenant is any indication.
Unless the would-be owner is smart enough to have something written into the agreement about losing too much money after three years-- or some such thing.

 
Old
06-17-2009, 09:19 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
That's not the way bankruptcy works. You don't just make an offer and propose dates. PSE's "offer" was part of a motion filed by Moyes and PSE. The motion was to reject the NHL's authority to control relocation. Baum denied the motion.

The auction for the team is now Sep 10. If someone wants a different auction schedule, they will have to do it via legal action. They would need to submit a new motion to Baum and legally defend their position.
Actually, Art, i am pretty sure you are incorrect on the date aspect.

Baum J. ruled on the Coyotes motion. He has not ruled on the NHL's proposed auction procedures. That is still an open item. i believe all the parties are back in court on the 22nd.

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06-17-2009, 09:21 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
and where do you propose you place a team in WI, billy, if you already have a pro franchise in Milwaukee that's essentially owned by the baseball franchise in said city

Attanasio owns both the Brewers and Admirals, you won't have an ally in Herb Kohl, so that eliminates the Bradley Center completely.

Milwaukee is an example, Proposing group would have Moyes group bring petition before Judge Baum with all the details

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06-17-2009, 09:22 PM
  #264
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Hey, Kirby's a good old Ontario boy
ya and another felon, billy, you missed this piece in the Des Moines Register, you cannot mortgage or place a pro franchise as collateral for any loan if you are running out of $, even as a prospective owner which is against AHL Bylaws and summarily the NHL BYLAW when they vet prospective owners.

Kirby's being forced to sell the franchise as no NHL franchise will affiliate w/ his club.

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06-17-2009, 09:25 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
Milwaukee is an example, Proposing group would have Moyes group bring petition before Judge Baum with all the details
only Toronto and MLSE has pulled this off, billy, Philadelphia aka Comcast did until 2 months ago

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06-17-2009, 09:27 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
ya and another felon, billy, you missed this piece in the Des Moines Register, you cannot mortgage or place a pro franchise as collateral for any loan if you are running out of $, even as a prospective owner which is against AHL Bylaws and summarily the NHL BYLAW when they vet prospective owners.

Kirby's being forced to sell the franchise as no NHL franchise will affiliate w/ his club.
i don't believe breaking an AHL bylaw or NHL bylaw makes one a "felon", if it did Leopold and Anschutz would both be "felons".

Also making a joke about good old Kirby. However shows that all leagues can be suckered, who's doing the due diligence

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06-17-2009, 09:30 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
i don't believe breaking an AHL bylaw or NHL bylaw makes one a "felon", if it did Leopold and Anschutz would both be "felons".

Also making a joke about good old Kirby. However shows that all leagues can be suckered, who's doing the due diligence
you need to find another hobby then, billy, because that's what Judge Baum just upheld the other night

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06-17-2009, 09:31 PM
  #268
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You are missing my main point, which is to consider what the the vast majority --i.e., 95% up -- of the season tickets are offered for in various cities. That's to avoid the skewing influence of adding in a small percentate of tickets which may or may not be sold at much higher prices. If you don't understand the logic in doing so, I will repeat it is to get the picture of what it costs for the vast majority of people to purchase season tickets in a particular market.
Rest assured, Ghost, we ALL get your main point. It is the same one you have been making forever: "please read this selection of information which i have carefully selected to make a point that I want to make". Does that cover it?

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How could I demonstrate (a) or (b) other than to tell you I've been to games at Jobbing.com Arena on more than one occasion and that's been my experience and observation. I realize that's anecdotal, however. I'm sure Coyotes fans that regularly attend games in Phoenix will have a better understanding.
You cannot support it. That is the point. So ease off.

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Other than that, use your own logic or thinking ability. When you only have 10,900 fans showing up in a 17,800 seat arena on average, how hard do you think it would be to move around and how easy do you think it would be to hire enough people to strictly enforce that every sits in the exact seat they were assigned? Full arenas tend to promote self-regulation by the fans; half-full arenas, not so much.
Since ushers and security are at every arena that I have ever been to, the answer is "not all that easy".

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Moreover, even if you couldn't move around, what would the rational economic being do in the situation? Purchase a $300 ticket for the first row or a $60 dollar ticket for the 3rd, 4th or 5th row if both choices are available? Someone with incomplete knowledge or a huge ego and money to burn may choose the $300 ticket, but not your average fan, at least imho.
People don't purchase $300 tickets on a whim. They are bought by corporate entities well in advance.

Secondly, of what point is it to single out the "average fan", whatever that is, as a relevant data point? Actually, i already know; it is because the fact that upper tier PHO tickets are mroe expensive than all but a few NHL city tickets.

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Regarding St. Louis, I have no idea what your point you are trying to make.

GHOST
The point was straightforward. PHO lowest ticket = $9. STL = $11.

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06-17-2009, 09:34 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by billy blaze View Post
i don't believe breaking an AHL bylaw or NHL bylaw makes one a "felon", if it did Leopold and Anschutz would both be "felons".

Also making a joke about good old Kirby. However shows that all leagues can be suckered, who's doing the due diligence
I have recently been reviewing the NHL bylaws regarding the Boots situation, and, contrary to popular belief, it seems fairly clear at this point that no by-laws were broken (although i am not saying that the conduct was acceptable - far from it).

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06-17-2009, 09:39 PM
  #270
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Hey, Kirby's a good old Ontario boy
Well, he did move to Dallas with his family when he was 6....so that's a stretch saying he's good old Ontario boy

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06-17-2009, 09:43 PM
  #271
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I have recently been reviewing the NHL bylaws regarding the Boots situation, and, contrary to popular belief, it seems fairly clear at this point that no by-laws were broken (although i am not saying that the conduct was acceptable - far from it).
What does this mean? Unacceptable conduct that isn't covered by the by-laws is then okay?

 
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06-17-2009, 09:49 PM
  #272
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Actually, Art, i am pretty sure you are incorrect on the date aspect.

Baum J. ruled on the Coyotes motion. He has not ruled on the NHL's proposed auction procedures. That is still an open item. i believe all the parties are back in court on the 22nd.
I could be wrong. (My wife tells me that happens alot).

I know Jun 22 was the PSE proposed auction date and during last weeks hearing Baum mentioned Jun 22 as a possible date to argue the relocation fees (before he later decided to rule on the motion). I don't remember hearing a date to finalize the auction procedures, but that doesn't mean it didn't come up. I'm sure there's other things I missed while hammering on my keypad. (I think next time I'll bring my 12 year old daughter, she can text a whole lot faster than me.)

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06-17-2009, 09:52 PM
  #273
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Regarding your Visitor Message; damn right I would. And I appreciate the kudos, and agree 100% with the sentiment. Perhaps I was Canadian in a prior life?

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06-17-2009, 09:52 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
I could be wrong. (My wife tells me that happens alot).

I know Jun 22 was the PSE proposed auction date and during last weeks hearing Baum mentioned Jun 22 as a possible date to argue the relocation fees (before he later decided to rule on the motion). I don't remember hearing a date to finalize the auction procedures, but that doesn't mean it didn't come up. I'm sure there's other things I missed while hammering on my keypad. (I think next time I'll bring my 12 year old daughter, she can text a whole lot faster than me.)
you did the best you could and we're just glad that at least for now it quiets down in Glendale/Phoenix

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06-17-2009, 09:58 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
you did the best you could and we're just glad that at least for now it quiets down in Glendale/Phoenix
I don't know. I'm hearing rumors that Balsillie is preparing an offer to move the Cardinals to LA. He said it is his intention to "bring them to the best unserved football market in the world."


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