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Mckenzie sees an elite top five

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:21 AM
  #26
rt
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Don Maloney, general manager of the Phoenix Coyotes, also weighed in, a bit, on the subject of the draft very recently...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Don's draft chat with Vest

Cliff notes:

- In general Don feels this is an "excellent draft"
- Clear top 3 of Tavares, Hedman and Duchene

- Seems to be consensus that Kane and Schenn will round out top 5

- Don would only trade up to get in top 2.

- Name some of the group after 5 (without tipping your hand). Cowen skates well and is tough western league kid who can be a shut down type. Kadri is smallish right now, creative offensive kid from London. John Moore is an elite level skater who played with Ulfies kid in Chicago. And then there are two Swedish kids, MSP who is a power skater and OEL who skates well. And then there is a creative offensive blueliner named Kulikov.


- Don't see kid we draft stepping into NHL like Bod and Tik. We are at a point where we don't have to force feed prospects. We can let them develop.
- What do Keith and you look for (attributes)? Speed, hockey sense is very important, leadership, skill.
- Do we draft a lot of players from junior leagues again? It's just where they are on our list. We want the best asset, no matter where they play.
- Do we draft a goalie this year? The goalie pool is not that deep. Maybe in the later rounds or if we can get a third rounder. But these kids are 4,5,6 years away from playing and we have Bryz who we expect to be one of the best in the NHL.
- Will we trade picks? At six only makes sense to move into top 2, that's remote. Move down is possibility. Moving second rounder on day two is much more likely, teams come to draft on day 2 wanting a specific player. If we can get a 3rd rounder, it's possible.
- Dissapointed no Calgary pick? No, we had to scale back scouting due to franchise situation. We will be better staffed next year to scour the eligibles and will be ready.
God damn do I hope that Phoenix goes with Svensson and not Cowen's burger knee.

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Last edited by rt: 06-17-2009 at 04:36 AM.
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Old
06-17-2009, 05:56 AM
  #27
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Schenn is being so overrated in this draft it's almost hard to believe.

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06-17-2009, 06:35 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Interesting that most NHL fans love MPS but the scouts don't see it. I was hoping my Avs would take him but oh well.
That's not actually true. If you look at the various agencies' ratings, the weight of opinion puts him at 5th I believe. ISS for instance has him 4th, ahead of Kane.

This perception of a top 5 consisting of Tavares, hedman, Duchene, Kane and Schenn, but not MPS, has only really started to emerge over the past couple of weeks, and the only sources I have seen for it is Waddell and various anonymous statements by unidentified scouts. It could well reflect the real perception, but on the other hand it may not. In any case, it is clearly not dificult to find scouts who believe MPS belongs in the top 5. Personally I think he'll go 7th and that some earlier-drafting teams will regret that in later years, but we'll see.

cheers

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06-17-2009, 06:53 AM
  #29
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Schenn to me will go the route of Rob Neidermayer. Have a couple real good NHL seasons but then turn into a defensive center who will chip in a few goals. That's it. I wouldn't draft him in the top 12. Especially with all the defenseman out there and how pathetic the defensive corps many teams in the NHL use.

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06-17-2009, 08:29 AM
  #30
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I really want Brian Burke to trade into the top 5 and pick Brayden Schenn but I would be content with MSP

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06-17-2009, 08:44 AM
  #31
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where theres smoke , theres.......

my gut tells me snow/jankowski prefer Hedman but the guy who pays the bills (wanger) wants his gm to pick Tavares.

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06-17-2009, 08:47 AM
  #32
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Love all the Islanders fanboy reactions to that article claiming that its easy to pick up a franchise defensemen later or through UFA but you can never get an offensive talent like Tavares the same way.

They are both rare commodities. Personally I think having a franchise defenseman makes more of a difference between the team winning and losing. Defensemen log more minutes than forwards generally and team defense wins championships.

But obviously there are fans that think that goal scoring is a much more valuable commodity, very debatable in my mind.

If Hedman is the real deal I'd take him for sure.

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06-17-2009, 08:50 AM
  #33
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MSP is dropping because of the U18 WC where he really disappointed. but he looked a bit out of gas and the whole team was a failure. so i don't think it's a big deal. but it might hurt his draft position. he'll be a nice pick-up at 6-8.

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06-17-2009, 09:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
I disagree

I think this draft will be similar to 2003, remember Staal, Horton and Fluery were thought to be a level above the rest, turns out there are several players that have a case for being top 5.

I think Hedman and Tavares are being overrated and others will close the gap
The 2003 draft NEVER happened. Sincerely, New York Ranger Management.

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06-17-2009, 09:51 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
The 2003 draft NEVER happened. Sincerely, New York Ranger Management.

holy...never noticed that...wonder how often a player, that long after beeing drafted; not have a crack at the NHL (when there drafted 1st rnd)....id like to think Dustin Brown would be the better choice

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06-17-2009, 10:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
is kane a similar player to brule?
More like Gary Roberts.

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06-17-2009, 10:46 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
If the Islanders pick Hedman over the most marketable player to come through the draft since Crosby, then they really deserve to move or be shut down.
What makes Tavares so marketable? Great offensive talent, but seems a bit on the dull side (like Crosby).

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06-17-2009, 10:51 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
What makes Tavares so marketable? Great offensive talent, but seems a bit on the dull side (like Crosby).
Pretty easy answer. Offense sells tickets.

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06-17-2009, 10:58 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
is kane a similar player to brule?
in the fact that he's a bigger, tougher power forward type sniper/pure goalscorer? ...I'd say no, he is nothing like Brule

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06-17-2009, 11:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
That's not actually true. If you look at the various agencies' ratings, the weight of opinion puts him at 5th I believe. ISS for instance has him 4th, ahead of Kane.

This perception of a top 5 consisting of Tavares, hedman, Duchene, Kane and Schenn, but not MPS, has only really started to emerge over the past couple of weeks, and the only sources I have seen for it is Waddell and various anonymous statements by unidentified scouts. It could well reflect the real perception, but on the other hand it may not. In any case, it is clearly not dificult to find scouts who believe MPS belongs in the top 5. Personally I think he'll go 7th and that some earlier-drafting teams will regret that in later years, but we'll see.

cheers
Its not just a "perception" of a top five. Mckenzie is about as rock solid a source as there is, because his take is based on interviews with the guys involved in making the choices.

There can always be surprises, yes, but I do think MPS will win up going in the 6 - 8 range.

And,yeah, a lot of teams could wind up with regrets.

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06-17-2009, 11:43 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
God damn do I hope that Phoenix goes with Svensson and not Cowen's burger knee.
Well, the first thing that he listed off in what he was looking for was speed... sounds like MPS to me!

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06-17-2009, 11:48 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
That's not actually true. If you look at the various agencies' ratings, the weight of opinion puts him at 5th I believe. ISS for instance has him 4th, ahead of Kane.

This perception of a top 5 consisting of Tavares, hedman, Duchene, Kane and Schenn, but not MPS, has only really started to emerge over the past couple of weeks, and the only sources I have seen for it is Waddell and various anonymous statements by unidentified scouts. It could well reflect the real perception, but on the other hand it may not. In any case, it is clearly not dificult to find scouts who believe MPS belongs in the top 5. Personally I think he'll go 7th and that some earlier-drafting teams will regret that in later years, but we'll see.

cheers
Uhhh, look up. Don Maloney is a general manager of an NHL club and has said that Kane and Schenn round out the consensus top five.

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06-17-2009, 11:52 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
I really want Brian Burke to trade into the top 5 and pick Brayden Schenn but I would be content with MSP
You settle for COWEN!!!

Seriously though, Burkie does seem to like his twin towers on D; Jovo and Ohlund, Pronger and Scottie, and now maybe Luke and ...Cowen? Hmmm...

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06-17-2009, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
You settle for COWEN!!!

Seriously though, Burkie does seem to like his twin towers on D; Jovo and Ohlund, Pronger and Scottie, and now maybe Luke and ...Cowen? Hmmm...
I definitely wouldn't lose sleep over it. One of MPS/Schenn/Cowen is fine with me. Even if he traded down and drafted Moore I wouldn't be too distraught.

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06-17-2009, 11:57 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
I disagree

I think this draft will be similar to 2003, remember Staal, Horton and Fluery were thought to be a level above the rest, turns out there are several players that have a case for being top 5.

I think Hedman and Tavares are being overrated and others will close the gap
Why do you think this? Have you seen any of the prospects from the '09 draft extensively?

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06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
tavares isnt that marketable. no more so than stamkos was. besides in NY a star player doesnt get fans. success does.
Ah, so most caps fans go and see the caps win, and not just to check out Ovechkin? Sure.

Tavares is surely to fill the seats more effectively than Hedman ever will.


While Tampa Bay will be fairly happy to have Stamkos and Tavares on the same team. The tandem would light up the overrated Hedman for years to come. How is that successful?

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06-17-2009, 11:59 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
You settle for COWEN!!!

Seriously though, Burkie does seem to like his twin towers on D; Jovo and Ohlund, Pronger and Scottie, and now maybe Luke and ...Cowen? Hmmm...
Just shows how ridiculously deep this draft is - when teams have to "settle" for Cowen and MPS.

That is the beauty of this draft for Toronto and PHX - do nothing and you still get a shot at a total stud.

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06-17-2009, 01:03 PM
  #48
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Are Cowen and MPS good enough to play next year or will they need a year or two in Juniors still?

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06-17-2009, 01:16 PM
  #49
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Tavares will be marketable on the Island next year when he scores 35 goals as a rookie, and is in the top 10 in NHL PP goals.

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06-17-2009, 01:20 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Love all the Islanders fanboy reactions to that article claiming that its easy to pick up a franchise defensemen later or through UFA but you can never get an offensive talent like Tavares the same way.

They are both rare commodities. Personally I think having a franchise defenseman makes more of a difference between the team winning and losing. Defensemen log more minutes than forwards generally and team defense wins championships.

But obviously there are fans that think that goal scoring is a much more valuable commodity, very debatable in my mind.

If Hedman is the real deal I'd take him for sure.
the bolded part is the key and face facts Defensemen do take longer to develop

and as regards the "fanboy" issue lets get things straight. the fanboy is actually Hedman. 12 scouts polled 12 scouts say Tavares.
Fanboyism is defined in part as "promoting the object of their interest and attention." so the fans are trying to promote Hedman above Tavares when the acknowledged experts are saying he's number two

so its not Tavares followers who are fanboys its those who are trying to promote Hedman ahead of the overwhelming scouts choice

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