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All Bob Gainey talk here.

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Old
06-17-2009, 01:11 PM
  #51
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It's too late for that, at the end of the next season with the new owner perhaps, and I wouldn't mind. He's not exactly in the best GMs league. Many of his trades have been questionable, some disastrous and that's where I think we are hurting the most from his piloting. I'm not going to add the drafts before another 5 years, but that could be another notch on his file.
I think one of his greatest assets was to trade for good serviceable players while not sacrificing a roster player. He got Kovalev and only traded away Jozef Balej. Tanguay, Schneider and Lang were acquired with picks alone. I don't think those trades were questionable or disastrous. His worst trades were probably Ribeiro's and Huet's, but he did do a bunch of good ones that helped the team. Also, he's wise enough to not take part in the trade deadline frenzy and overpay for players (look at how that paid off for many of the teams like New York or Calgary).

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06-17-2009, 01:23 PM
  #52
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Back during the Houle era it seemed as if the media had a strong influence on the team. Does anyone remember Stephane Richer's second coming? That signing seemed to be fueled by more criticism that the team needed more French content - yet again. The cost of that move was Odelein.
And during the same era, the team traded Éric Desjardins, Guy Carbonneau, Patrick Roy, Pierre Turgeon and Vincent Damphousse and got crap in return. Yet you only mention Richer for Odelein because it furthers the "agenda" conspiracy. How's that for selective memory?

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06-17-2009, 01:31 PM
  #53
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I am so tired of having to defend Bob. All I will say is that I love what Bob is doing, and I think he did everything right last year. Bob's biggest fault was hiring Carbo too soon. He clearly wasn't ready to be a head coach yet.

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06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
  #54
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Thing is, team wasnt for sale for about 10 or even 6 months ago, was it?
Not for sale but it was being evaluated so yes, Gainey's hands were tied.

All in all, you can either see this as an opportunity or a problem.
I see it as an opportunity and I don't think Gainey should act any different than all the other GMs in the league which is wait until they have a clear idea of available cap space.

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06-17-2009, 01:35 PM
  #55
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No.


next question.

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06-17-2009, 01:39 PM
  #56
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Not yet.

NHL entry draft is in 9 days.

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06-17-2009, 01:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hermamoud View Post
I think one of his greatest assets was to trade for good serviceable players while not sacrificing a roster player. He got Kovalev and only traded away Jozef Balej. Tanguay, Schneider and Lang were acquired with picks alone. I don't think those trades were questionable or disastrous. His worst trades were probably Ribeiro's and Huet's, but he did do a bunch of good ones that helped the team. Also, he's wise enough to not take part in the trade deadline frenzy and overpay for players (look at how that paid off for many of the teams like New York or Calgary).
Tanguay, Schneider, and Lang cost us a 1st rounder, 3 second rounders, and a 3rd rounder. That's alot for a non-contender to give up for players whose tenure past last season was/is in doubt.

Had he properly assessed Streit's value, we'd have a better looking set of Dmen going into free-agency, and we'd have out 2nd and 3rd rounder from the Schneider trade.

He decides to trade Rivet, but not Souray... in a season where the team was in shambles. The next year he takes a different approach and deals Huet for peanuts, throwing a raw Carey Price to the wolves and paying for it so far. Inconsistent management of assets there.

The list goes on and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was ousted, because after all his 5-year plan has been up for some time and this team still has no identity.

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06-17-2009, 01:53 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hermamoud View Post
I think one of his greatest assets was to trade for good serviceable players while not sacrificing a roster player. He got Kovalev and only traded away Jozef Balej. Tanguay, Schneider and Lang were acquired with picks alone. I don't think those trades were questionable or disastrous. His worst trades were probably Ribeiro's and Huet's, but he did do a bunch of good ones that helped the team. Also, he's wise enough to not take part in the trade deadline frenzy and overpay for players (look at how that paid off for many of the teams like New York or Calgary).
And they are now all UFA's!

We gave up all those picks for 1 year of Tanguay, 1 year of Lang and 1/4 year of Schneider. If we can't retain any of those guys then that is a disaster.

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06-17-2009, 02:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
And during the same era, the team traded Éric Desjardins, Guy Carbonneau, Patrick Roy, Pierre Turgeon and Vincent Damphousse and got crap in return. Yet you only mention Richer for Odelein because it furthers the "agenda" conspiracy. How's that for selective memory?
Desjardins was traded by Serge. Anywho, I was referring to selective memory as it relates to what Gainey has or has not done. Not specifically which french were acquired or moved. I seem to have touched a nerve since it seems you're trying to tweak my nose. If your trying to annoy me, try harder Homer

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06-17-2009, 02:03 PM
  #60
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Too bad we couldn't get rid of some fans like we can get rid of coaches and players.

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06-17-2009, 02:09 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by CraigDarby View Post
Tanguay, Schneider, and Lang cost us a 1st rounder, 3 second rounders, and a 3rd rounder. That's alot for a non-contender to give up for players whose tenure past last season was/is in doubt.
Are you serious? We gave up only 1 first rounder in those trades for three players who were among the biggest contributers to our team, when they were here/healthy. And whose to say that none of the three are going to re-sign? Would it look better if they did? Look around the league, check out some of the other future-mortgaging trades GMs make just to scrape into the post-season. Coburn for Zhitnik, anyone? Ryan Smyth to the Isles for picks/prospects? Shawn Matthias for Todd Bertuzzi? And you're mad at Gainey for giving up mostly second rounders??

Quote:
Had he properly assessed Streit's value, we'd have a better looking set of Dmen going into free-agency, and we'd have out 2nd and 3rd rounder from the Schneider trade.
What's funny is that everyone wanted Streit gone at the end of the year and everyone laughed at how much he signed for in Long Island. But now that they see Streit is actually a competent defenseman, it's Gainey's fault. Too bad Gainey doesn't have the benefit of hindsight like all the HFboards armchair GMs do.

Quote:
He decides to trade Rivet, but not Souray... in a season where the team was in shambles. The next year he takes a different approach and deals Huet for peanuts, throwing a raw Carey Price to the wolves and paying for it so far. Inconsistent management of assets there.
Gainey had to keep Souray, he was one of our best players offensively and we were trying to make the playoffs. It's similar to the Bouwmeester situation this year in Florida. You can't just give away all your UFAs and throw in the towel on a season when you're fighting for a playoff spot right up until game 82. Also feel free to give credit to him for the Rivet trade, which was a huge steal for us.

Also worth noting, since the Huet trade:
Playoff series' won: Price 1, Huet 0.

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Old
06-17-2009, 02:14 PM
  #62
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I'm in the 'No' camp.

But hypothetically, let's say Gainey would be fired, who is available that would do a better job than he's capable of? I can't think of anyone.

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06-17-2009, 02:24 PM
  #63
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I'm in the 'No' camp.

But hypothetically, let's say Gainey would be fired, who is available that would do a better job than he's capable of? I can't think of anyone.
Somebody French, that's all that matters anyway.

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06-17-2009, 02:26 PM
  #64
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Somebody French, that's all that matters anyway.
How about a triple headed monster of Bergeron/Peron/Demers, since they obviously invented the game. It'd be gold I tell ya, gold!

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06-17-2009, 02:31 PM
  #65
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How about a triple headed monster of Bergeron/Peron/Demers, since they obviously invented the game. It'd be gold I tell ya, gold!
I'm sure some around here would love it. My favorite was in another thread that said we should get rid of Gainey and just replace him with Pierre Gauthier, and no I'm not kidding or high.

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06-17-2009, 02:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CraigDarby View Post
Tanguay, Schneider, and Lang cost us a 1st rounder, 3 second rounders, and a 3rd rounder. That's alot for a non-contender to give up for players whose tenure past last season was/is in doubt.

Had he properly assessed Streit's value, we'd have a better looking set of Dmen going into free-agency, and we'd have out 2nd and 3rd rounder from the Schneider trade.

He decides to trade Rivet, but not Souray... in a season where the team was in shambles. The next year he takes a different approach and deals Huet for peanuts, throwing a raw Carey Price to the wolves and paying for it so far. Inconsistent management of assets there.

The list goes on and I wouldn't lose any sleep if he was ousted, because after all his 5-year plan has been up for some time and this team still has no identity.
What are you talking about non-contender? The Canadiens finished first in the east and was one of the highest scoring teams in the league. Gainey then replaced Michael Ryder by Alex Tanguay and Bryan Smolinski by Robert Lang. How could that be a non-contender?

Also, Streit was seriously misused by Carbonneau, not Gainey. If Carbonneau gave him a regular spot in D, maybe he would have stayed. Many people also thought that Streit's points were merely leeched off Markov and Kovalev because he played between them in the PP, not to mention that he looked absolutely horrible during the Philly series.

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06-17-2009, 02:36 PM
  #67
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Also worth noting, since the Huet trade:
Playoff series' won: Price 1, Huet 0.
What are you talking about? Chicago won 2 series with Huet

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06-17-2009, 02:37 PM
  #68
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Are you serious? We gave up only 1 first rounder in those trades for three players who were among the biggest contributers to our team, when they were here/healthy. And whose to say that none of the three are going to re-sign? Would it look better if they did? Look around the league, check out some of the other future-mortgaging trades GMs make just to scrape into the post-season. Coburn for Zhitnik, anyone? Ryan Smyth to the Isles for picks/prospects? Shawn Matthias for Todd Bertuzzi? And you're mad at Gainey for giving up mostly second rounders??



What's funny is that everyone wanted Streit gone at the end of the year and everyone laughed at how much he signed for in Long Island. But now that they see Streit is actually a competent defenseman, it's Gainey's fault. Too bad Gainey doesn't have the benefit of hindsight like all the HFboards armchair GMs do.



Gainey had to keep Souray, he was one of our best players offensively and we were trying to make the playoffs. It's similar to the Bouwmeester situation this year in Florida. You can't just give away all your UFAs and throw in the towel on a season when you're fighting for a playoff spot right up until game 82. Also feel free to give credit to him for the Rivet trade, which was a huge steal for us.

Also worth noting, since the Huet trade:
Playoff series' won: Price 1, Huet 0.
Yah yah, Gainey's great, he's our saviour... he never does anything wrong blah blah blah.

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06-17-2009, 02:39 PM
  #69
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Yah yah, Gainey's great, he's our saviour... he never does anything wrong blah blah blah.
About what I expected

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06-17-2009, 02:41 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CraigDarby View Post
Tanguay, Schneider, and Lang cost us a 1st rounder, 3 second rounders, and a 3rd rounder. That's alot for a non-contender to give up for players whose tenure past last season was/is in doubt.
What's a non-contender team anyways? Were Tampa and Carolina contenders when they won the cup? From what I remember, we were pretty sure to beat both teams when we faced them...

And Edmonton when they reached the final a few years ago? From what I remember, they battled long and hard to even reach the playoffs...and guess what! They came pretty close from winning the cup.

There's always a few teams who have higher chances of winning the cup. Pittsburgh and Detroit were the obvious choice this year, and the logic was respected, but it's not always like that.

With that in mind, I'm sure we were close enough to give it a go and trade for those players who DID made us a better team.

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06-17-2009, 02:47 PM
  #71
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Why stop at a new GM? Why don't we sell the whole darn team to Hamilton, and then start fresh with an AHL team ... the Bulldogs maybe?

Man, some kids need summer hobbies. Get on a bike, read a book, do something with your time and energy aside from listening to your ill begotten ideas about how the team ought to be run. Gainey, if we are lucky enough to keep him, will do the right thing for us.

BTW, I would also be in to the idea of changing our fan base ... too many whiners and arm-chair GMs out there.

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06-17-2009, 02:49 PM
  #72
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What are you talking about non-contender? The Canadiens finished first in the east and was one of the highest scoring teams in the league. Gainey then replaced Michael Ryder by Alex Tanguay and Bryan Smolinski by Robert Lang. How could that be a non-contender?

Also, Streit was seriously misused by Carbonneau, not Gainey. If Carbonneau gave him a regular spot in D, maybe he would have stayed. Many people also thought that Streit's points were merely leeched off Markov and Kovalev because he played between them in the PP, not to mention that he looked absolutely horrible during the Philly series.
That 1st in the east spiel is getting old. We were what? 8 points out of 8th place, and relied heavily on our PP and top-notch goaltending to get that 8 point advantage. The pedestrian showing in the playoffs that season means more to me than the number next to our team name in the regular season standings. Once the PP dried out and Price started letting in shots from everywhere we were DOA.

Streit said he would of stayed in Montreal for 2.5 million if he was guaranteed a D spot, and Gainey didn't even give him and offer. Carbo probably had his say about that, but afterall Carbo was Gainey's guy.

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06-17-2009, 03:07 PM
  #73
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That 1st in the east spiel is getting old. We were what? 8 points out of 8th place, and relied heavily on our PP and top-notch goaltending to get that 8 point advantage. The pedestrian showing in the playoffs that season means more to me than the number next to our team name in the regular season standings. Once the PP dried out and Price started letting in shots from everywhere we were DOA.

Streit said he would of stayed in Montreal for 2.5 million if he was guaranteed a D spot, and Gainey didn't even give him and offer. Carbo probably had his say about that, but afterall Carbo was Gainey's guy.
The top notch goaltending...wait...was it...no, it can bewas it really...PRICE?!?!?!?! you said :

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigDarby
The next year he takes a different approach and deals Huet for peanuts, throwing a raw Carey Price to the wolves and paying for it so far.
Was he really that raw? I mean, all he did was showing he was NHL ready...that's why we let Huet go. Price crashed at the worst possible time, but how could anyone have expected that?

People are to fast on the trigger...people need to understand the why of each move in order to balance the pros and the cons. After that, you can say if it was a good or a bad move.

For instance, the Tanguay trade was great IMO. We finished first in the East and we were a young team on the rise. We missed a bit of firepower up front and we were looking at Tanguay for a while. He became available and the asking price wasn't all that much. The 25th overall of a average draft, and a second this year. With him, we were supposed to be even better offensively and he did played well. He was injured, but that could have happened to anyone. All in all, a good move.

On the other hand, the Ribeiro trade was a bad one. He never had the right attitude in Montreal...that's no secret. He did had the skills to become a good player. Gainey wanted to clean up the team so Ribeiro was next on his list after Theo and Dagenais. We needed a D and he got Niinimaa for him...a defenseman who was once good, but was far ahead in his decline. That was a bad move...

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06-17-2009, 03:15 PM
  #74
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And they are now all UFA's!

We gave up all those picks for 1 year of Tanguay, 1 year of Lang and 1/4 year of Schneider. If we can't retain any of those guys then that is a disaster.
Only one of these players was acquired using a 1st rounder.
Also, Tanguay, Lang and Schneider all had a good influence on our team when healthy.
If our team wouldn't have lucked out on injuries, we would have had a very strong team. Alas, everything that could go wrong this year, went wrong.


But those are picks, and just 1 first rounder. How exactly is that a disaster if they don't re-sign??

Hossa went to Pitts for 2 roster players (important ones for them), one very potentially good prospect (Esposito with an experienced Crosby or Malkin would have been amazing. He's also a 1st rounder), and a 1st round pick in 08.
They lost in the Finals, lost Hossa. According to you, that must have been a HUGE disaster...

Gainey's made good decisions so far. Every GM makes mistakes, but overall he's been pretty good. Looking forward to seeing how our team will bounce back next year and all the doubters will find little things to keep whining about.

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06-17-2009, 03:34 PM
  #75
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I say, yes we need a new GM. In fact, I would like to suggest a name for the upcoming draft too.

GM - Rejean Tremblay (vast experience...)
Head of Amateur Scouting- J.C. Lajoie (depth of knowledge, years of scouting experience)
Director of Communications - Al Strachan... I had to throw him in too.


Enjoy my half baked attempt at humour for what it is.

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