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Old
06-17-2009, 03:00 PM
  #26
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
They can keep him.
Well, no, we won't keep him, but the Kings won't get him. And that's a good thing for you to be perfectly honest.

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06-17-2009, 03:01 PM
  #27
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Old
06-17-2009, 03:01 PM
  #28
Dave in LA
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
So what you're saying is that Kobe Bryant publicly asked for a trade, the Lakers took offers but couldn't find anything they liked and kept him? UNPOSSIBLE!!!
UNPOSSIBLE?

Well, they can keep Heater & dream about winning a championship.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:02 PM
  #29
Dave in LA
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Well, no, we won't keep him, but the Kings won't get him. And that's a good thing for you to be perfectly honest.
Finally, something I agree with.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:05 PM
  #30
Dick Whitman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
UNPOSSIBLE?

Well, they can keep Heater & dream about winning a championship.
There are few bigger idiots than Kobe Bryant on this earth and if he can win a championship (Without Shaq propping him up) then anyone can.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:09 PM
  #31
Dave in LA
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
There are few bigger idiots than Kobe Bryant on this earth and if he can win a championship (Without Shaq propping him up) then anyone can.
My wife would agree with you. She's a Kobe hater.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:30 PM
  #32
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I think in reality this trade definitely sounds reasonable

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:14 PM
  #33
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Something more like Jack Johnson, Oscar Moller, and a 2nd will be the type of package that would go back... i personally agree Heatley may be worth more, but this is the type of deal that players n his situation get

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:18 PM
  #34
AKAY47
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Alexander Frolov isn't going anywhere, that's it, that's all..

Moller, Teubert and a 5th is the best deal you'll get

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06-17-2009, 04:59 PM
  #35
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Alexander Frolov isn't going anywhere, that's it, that's all..

Moller, Teubert and a 5th is the best deal you'll get
Moller, Teubert and the 5th overall, yeah, that's the deal that would win the day.

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Old
06-17-2009, 05:09 PM
  #36
Hale The Villain
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Jesus christ, note to self: never make trades with L.A

Stop acting like 50 goal scorers are worth nothing, Frolov will have to be included in the deal as we are not in rebuilding mode so we don't want your unproven prospects

And the 5th overall pick won't get you Heatley, I understand that the hype of picks right before a draft is huge but that pick has just as much of a chance to bust as it does to become a player who's half as good as Heatley

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:10 PM
  #37
kingpest19
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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Not the initial trade, no. Frolov's got one year left, so his value is nothing to us. In fact, his $$ would hamper our chances of Bouwmeester or another UFA.
How so? Do you think hes going to ask for 7+ mil at the end of next season? Even if he gets a contract in the 5 range its still less money than having Heatley on the books. Unless you are saying Heatleys contract will hamper chances of J-Bo or another UFA as well?

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:15 PM
  #38
TheHMan
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
How so? Do you think hes going to ask for 7+ mil at the end of next season? Even if he gets a contract in the 5 range its still less money than having Heatley on the books. Unless you are saying Heatleys contract will hamper chances of J-Bo or another UFA as well?
He just doesn't seem very high on Frolov at all.

I on the other hand would love to see him coming back, and we could easily retain Frolov with the sort of cap space we'll end up with. We need replace Heatley's goal scoring, and Frolov is a pretty good fit and good friends with Volchenkov as well. He'd be a nice piece to complete the top line and would allow us to play with the rest of the money to get some secondary scoring.

I also think that betting on landing a Free Agent is a fools game. Bouwmeester isn't coming to Ottawa, the only way these things tend to happen is if you pay these free agents obscene amounts of money.

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:23 PM
  #39
kingpest19
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Originally Posted by TheHMan View Post
He just doesn't seem very high on Frolov at all.

I on the other hand would love to see him coming back, and we could easily retain Frolov with the sort of cap space we'll end up with. We need replace Heatley's goal scoring, and Frolov is a pretty good fit and good friends with Volchenkov as well. He'd be a nice piece to complete the top line and would allow us to play with the rest of the money to get some secondary scoring.

I also think that betting on landing a Free Agent is a fools game. Bouwmeester isn't coming to Ottawa, the only way these things tend to happen is if you pay these free agents obscene amounts of money.
Aint that the truth. He acts like hes in his mid 30's never scored 30 goals and is a useless player. But hey if having a guy with 2 30 goal seasons in your mid 20s while being one of the most underrated players in the league isnt worth it enjoy whatever lesser player you get back. As others have said if it was Frolov, JJ and the 5th Heatley would be in LA.

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:33 PM
  #40
BallinLikeComrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Alexander Frolov isn't going anywhere, that's it, that's all..

Moller, Teubert and a 5th is the best deal you'll get
if that is what you think will get you heatley that is ridiculous. Frolov absolutely will be in any package with LA thats it thats all. If LA actually offers up a bunch of prospects we wont take the deal. I have never seen any fan base over value prospects and picks as much as many LA fans on this board which is brutal considering the way HF in general is fixated on prospects and picks. Not one of those three future players will ever come close to heater and probably even if you combined all three players point totals they wouldnt be close either.

You have to give up someone who has actually produced in the NHL, not junior. You could not honestly tell me that you believe frolov is anywhere as good as heater, I dont understand the difficulty some of you seem to have giving him up when you are getting an obvious upgrade.

If a deal goes through with LA I am predicting Heater our 9th maybe, probably a second or both our second for Frolov, Teubert/hickey and the 5th. If that is the deal, LA gets the best player and is much better next year than they would have been without making the trade.

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:38 PM
  #41
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Frolov won't be traded. We aren't trading a LW for a LW, that doesn't make much sense. We need MORE scoring.

But, I guess that's just me.

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BallinLikeComrie View Post
You have to give up someone who has actually produced in the NHL, not junior. You could not honestly tell me that you believe frolov is anywhere as good as heater, I dont understand the difficulty some of you seem to have giving him up when you are getting an obvious upgrade.
Who is the better player, Heatley or Frolov?

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:47 PM
  #43
TheHMan
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Originally Posted by Shelle121 View Post
Frolov won't be traded. We aren't trading a LW for a LW, that doesn't make much sense. We need MORE scoring.

But, I guess that's just me.
The reason why it makes sense to me is that over the past 3 years, Frolov is a 65 point player. Heatley is an 86 point player over the last 3 years, and is locked up for another 5.

I would think making this trade would give you MORE scoring immediately and establish the King's top line. In free agency they could focus on getting a 2nd line winger rather than a 1st line winger, which is a much more realistic goal.

I don't think the package is going to be 5th, JJ, Frolov for Heatley alone. LA would probably keep JJ, throw in a different prospect and Ottawa would send back their pick and something else to even out the value. I still think that a trade for Heatley could improve the Kings, even if Frolov is coming back the other way though.

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Old
06-17-2009, 06:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
I think this is a fair proposal for both teams

To Ottawa: Alexander Frolov, Jack Johnson, 5th overall pick

To Los Angeles: Dany Heatley, 9th overall pick, Alexandre Picard

Basically it's Frolov and Johnson for Heatley and Picard, but I thought that was a little unfair for our side so I just added the picks in to even the deal out
Kings shouldn't do that.

Frolov << Heatley
Johnson and the 5th >>>> Picard and the 9th.

There's no need for LA to breakup a nice young nucleus for an upgrade at wing (who happens to be on a bad contract, IMO).

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Old
06-17-2009, 07:03 PM
  #45
Shellz
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Originally Posted by TheHMan View Post
The reason why it makes sense to me is that over the past 3 years, Frolov is a 65 point player. Heatley is an 86 point player over the last 3 years, and is locked up for another 5.

I would think making this trade would give you MORE scoring immediately and establish the King's top line. In free agency they could focus on getting a 2nd line winger rather than a 1st line winger, which is a much more realistic goal.

I don't think the package is going to be 5th, JJ, Frolov for Heatley alone. LA would probably keep JJ, throw in a different prospect and Ottawa would send back their pick and something else to even out the value. I still think that a trade for Heatley could improve the Kings, even if Frolov is coming back the other way though.

I don't think Dean is willing to trade Frolov away just yet. He has mentioned in interviews that he is at the point where he can start trading prospects and picks for a higher level player.

As for the Moller, Hickey & 5th overall a Sens fan actually brought that up. It's really not a bad deal. I just don't see what you guys what with Frolov. He is a UFA next year also, but I am sure you knew that.

But, I guess we will all know soon enough.

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Old
06-17-2009, 07:03 PM
  #46
Legionnaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
I think this is a fair proposal for both teams

To Ottawa: Alexander Frolov, Jack Johnson, 5th overall pick

To Los Angeles: Dany Heatley, 9th overall pick, Alexandre Picard

Basically it's Frolov and Johnson for Heatley and Picard, but I thought that was a little unfair for our side so I just added the picks in to even the deal out
I'd rather have Frolov, Johnson, and Schenn than

Heatley, (Kadri, Larssen, Kulikov etc.), Picard.

There are questions in my mind when it comes to Heatley. Is he a head case? The trade from Atlanta I can understand, but this? Now?

Then there's the matter of his skills. He's a sniper, and a finisher but as we've seen before, the hands can go quick. I theory he's just what LA needs....NOW. But at 7.5 million that takes up a lot of cap room without addressing our main need, a number two center. And then what about that cap space if he drops down to 30 goals? Frolov is still put up his 30 at a lower salary and playing good D.

Yes, Frolov is up for a new contract next year, but I think he's happy here in LA and will likely give a bit of a hometown discount. He get's overrated by Kings fans and underrated by the rest of the league. Frolov is great defensively, along the boards and around the net. No he's not in Heatley's league when it comes to scoring, but he's still put up two 30 goal seasons without much offensive support. Frolov is the Kings version of Jere Lehtinen with 80 point potential with a decent cast around him because he's a garbage collector as a shooter and hell of a passer when he has some one who can finish.


As for Johnson, forget the rumors until something really happens. He's still oozes talent and has played admirabably (the +/- isn't the greatest indicator) on a pretty bad team. Add in the fact that he was coming back from injury and wasn't at full strength, expect a different Johnson next year. A harder hitting Johnson.

Johnson has the tools, he's just been on a leash. That's mainly why he's been frustrated. Yes, he makes gaffs on d sometimes, but that part of his game has still really improved. If he were given more PP time, and the chips to take a gamble, he would be viewed much differently. When he's gotten the green light, you can see what could be if given the role.

Schenn. What can I say. Will he pan out? I don't know. But we need a number two center like Mike Richards, I know that for sure.


Last edited by Legionnaire: 06-17-2009 at 07:10 PM.
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Old
06-17-2009, 07:15 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
5th over-all picks of the last 15 years: Luke Schenn, Karl Alzner, Phil Kessel, Carey Price, Blake Wheeler, Tomas Vanek, Ryan Whitney, Stanislav Chistov, Raffi Torres, Tim Connolly, Vitaly Vishnevsky, Eric Brewer, Richard Jackman, Daymond Langkow, Jeff O'Neill.
Jaromir Jagr!

Any offer that involves a top 5 pick is the offer they should take. They aren't going to get anything better.

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Old
06-17-2009, 07:23 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Shelle121 View Post
I don't think Dean is willing to trade Frolov away just yet. He has mentioned in interviews that he is at the point where he can start trading prospects and picks for a higher level player.

As for the Moller, Hickey & 5th overall a Sens fan actually brought that up. It's really not a bad deal. I just don't see what you guys what with Frolov. He is a UFA next year also, but I am sure you knew that.

But, I guess we will all know soon enough.
The main reason why Frolov keeps getting thrown in is because you can't sell a deal on picks and potential alone. You're actually going to have to add a considerable amount to that since Ottawa is taking a huge risk included with that deal.

The starting point for Heatley is most likely going to be a roster player coming from LA. It's probably not going to be Kopitar or Brown, so Frolov seems like the next best thing. Everyone else on LA's roster is either too young, or isn't remotely close to being the kind of player you can build a deal around.

Moller, Hickey, and the 5th seems pretty unlikely, and you have to keep in mind that it's also coming from the same guy who's knocking Frolov. Most LA fans would admit that while Moller is a pretty good player, but he's not really NHL ready and we can't even come close to penciling him into the top line, and probably won't for a while. That's the problem right there.

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Old
06-17-2009, 07:27 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by TheHMan View Post
The main reason why Frolov keeps getting thrown in is because you can't sell a deal on picks and potential alone. You're actually going to have to add a considerable amount to that since Ottawa is taking a huge risk included with that deal.

The starting point for Heatley is most likely going to be a roster player coming from LA. It's probably not going to be Kopitar or Brown, so Frolov seems like the next best thing. Everyone else on LA's roster is either too young, or isn't remotely close to being the kind of player you can build a deal around.

Moller, Hickey, and the 5th seems pretty unlikely, and you have to keep in mind that it's also coming from the same guy who's knocking Frolov. Most LA fans would admit that while Moller is a pretty good player, but he's not really NHL ready and we can't even come close to penciling him into the top line, and probably won't for a while. That's the problem right there.
You're pretty much right. Kings fans including myself don't like the idea, but the fact is Dean Lombardi has always given the impression Frolov isn't part of the future core. Accept it everyone, there's a really good chance he's dealt.

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Old
06-17-2009, 07:28 PM
  #50
kingpest19
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Originally Posted by TheHMan View Post
The reason why it makes sense to me is that over the past 3 years, Frolov is a 65 point player. Heatley is an 86 point player over the last 3 years, and is locked up for another 5.

I would think making this trade would give you MORE scoring immediately and establish the King's top line. In free agency they could focus on getting a 2nd line winger rather than a 1st line winger, which is a much more realistic goal.

I don't think the package is going to be 5th, JJ, Frolov for Heatley alone. LA would probably keep JJ, throw in a different prospect and Ottawa would send back their pick and something else to even out the value. I still think that a trade for Heatley could improve the Kings, even if Frolov is coming back the other way though.
Except the fact that theres not really much on the market this year that could replace what Frolov brings. And anyone that comes close already makes more than Frolov.

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