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Strange Drafting...

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Old
06-17-2009, 02:45 PM
  #1
HVPOLARBEARS19
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Strange Drafting...

I was wondering out of curiosity if anyone remembers any players who were hyped up a lot before the draft, but inexplicably fell, and kept falling. I'm not talking about guys who were supposed to be enormously talented, but who had attitude problems, causing well known reservations amongst GMs such as Angelo Esposito.
On the other side of things, does anyone remember any player being taken way higher than anyone possibly could have conceived? I seem to remember some people saying that the Kings picking Hickey was a huge reach, but I don't remember for certain.
Also, what were some of the most criticized picks (at the time) that ended up working in favor of the drafting team (such as what happened in the NFL with Mario Williams being taken ahead of both Reggie Bush and Vince Young, which seemed insane at the time but now looks like pure genius).

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06-17-2009, 02:53 PM
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Beerfish
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2002 Oilers: Jesse Niinimaki, 1st round 15th overall

He was the 14th rated finnish player by central scouting, something like the 50th rated european player and the Oilers picked him 15th overall. The tsn guys were scrambling through their papers to even know who this guy was when his name was called. Monumental bust.

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06-17-2009, 03:24 PM
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Thomas Hickey at 4th overall?

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06-17-2009, 03:29 PM
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BritSabre
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Blake Wheeler. If he'd signed with Phoenix, turned out a stellar rookie season after years and years of critisism. It's a shame he screwed over Phoenix...

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06-17-2009, 03:29 PM
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Sundinisagod
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Joe Neiwendyke (can't ever remember the spelling)...IIRC he was rated for the 3rd round went early second and was one of the best to come out of the 1985 draft.

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06-17-2009, 03:30 PM
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Haute Couturier
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Blake Wheeler went higher than expected.

ETA, If I recall correctly Forsberg also went higher than expected.

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06-17-2009, 03:34 PM
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Michael Scofield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Greenstein View Post
Joe Neiwendyke (can't ever remember the spelling)...IIRC he was rated for the 3rd round went early second and was one of the best to come out of the 1985 draft.
Nieuwendyk

And that came to mind with me too actually

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06-17-2009, 03:35 PM
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Brent Burns, who was considered a 2nd round talent, was drafted 20th overall in 2003, converted to defense after playing RW his whole life, and was placed in the NHL immediately after the draft.

And it somehow worked out.

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06-17-2009, 03:38 PM
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Jiri Hudler was always considered one of the most talented players his draft year, but despite it being relatively weak, he just kept falling.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Brent Burns, who was considered a 2nd round talent, was drafted 20th overall in 2003, converted to defense after playing RW his whole life,
Part right, part wrong. He never played RW his entire life. That was his rookie year in Brampton the year he got drafted and that is when they converted Burns from defense to RW, hence why a lower draft grade.

BTW, Minnesota has had some strange draft picks. Matt Kassian, 2nd round pick when he was probably 5-7th rounder. Aaron Boogaard, Undrafted, 4-5th rounder.

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06-17-2009, 04:03 PM
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To a smaller degree, Carey Price

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:07 PM
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Derek Morris was taken high by the Flames to the supposed amusement of many scouting staffs. I believe he was ranked in the 90's or so and went around 13th overall.

Petr Sykora fell, Robbie Schremp fell, Jani Rita fell. ARGUABLY at any rate.

Its really hard in most cases to say a guy "fell" because where did he fall from? Some people think there is a consensus on where players should go when this usually isn't the case. You take a look at different draft rankings and they can be wildly different. The same thing would happen if you had access to the draft lists of all the teams, people would be shocked by the difference of opinion. If you shuffle the draft order around you'd get totally different draft results. Some people are under the mistaken belief that if you shuffled the order of the teams around, the results wouldn't change much.

In most cases a player "falling" means simply that fans had overhyped that player for some reason or that the scouting services overhyped a player while teams had larger concerns over some aspect of that player's game. It could also mean that one of the teams that was very high on said player, didn't have a high pick, or perhaps a guy they liked slightly better was there. Its possible a guy could be each team's second choice for about 10 picks in a row and thus arguably might have "fallen" further than you would have expected.

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:21 PM
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maxim mayorov was projected to go middle to late first but fell to the 4th round

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06-17-2009, 04:25 PM
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Brad Richards was expected to be a 7th-9th round pick and Phil Esposito one time admitted that he only picked him in the 3rd round because of the Lecavalier connection.

In the 1992 draft Phil Esposito drafted Marc Tardif in the 10th round because he noticed him crying in the stands that he thought he was going to be undrafted.

Last year the Lightning drafted David Carle even after finding out he has to retire from hockey because Oren Koules wanted to reward someone who deserved to be drafted.

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:28 PM
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daethfromabove1979
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does anyone know if brooks orpik was a reach or not when he was drafted? he was eligible in 1999 then went in the first round the next year (18th overall) or did he not enter in 1999 whats the deal there

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06-17-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daethfromabove1979 View Post
does anyone know if brooks orpik was a reach or not when he was drafted? he was eligible in 1999 then went in the first round the next year (18th overall) or did he not enter in 1999 whats the deal there
Before the new CBA prospects had to opt in at 18. Opting in made them ineligible for NCAA, hence most of college prospects drafted in the last year of draft eligibility.

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06-17-2009, 04:57 PM
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Sasha "Friggin" Pokulok in the first round. Has barely even sniffed the AHL.

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06-17-2009, 05:01 PM
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daethfromabove1979
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Originally Posted by shveik View Post
Before the new CBA prospects had to opt in at 18. Opting in made them ineligible for NCAA, hence most of college prospects drafted in the last year of draft eligibility.
haha thanks, i had just looked up why dany heatley didn't go in 1999 when he was first eligible and figured it all out.. googled it and an hfboards thread came up at the top


and to a previous poster saying tj oshie went much higher than he was supposed to.. i thought he was pegged as a sure first rounder before he was drafted?

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Old
06-17-2009, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marukin View Post
Sasha "Friggin" Pokulok in the first round. Has barely even sniffed the AHL.
To be fair, there's no reason he wouldn't have been a regular by now at least for the Bears if not for the concussions. He was a reach, but the injuries are what have made him a bust.

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06-17-2009, 05:06 PM
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I remember when the Bruins drafted Shaone Morrisson people thought it was way off the board.

I also felt when the Leafs drafted Luca Cereda it seemed strange.

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06-17-2009, 05:16 PM
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fong p88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satchmo View Post
Fallers:
- TJ Oshie a HUGE surprise (4th rounder or less)
Oshie was pegged as a first rounder, I remember hoping the Blues would take him so the Oilers could get Cogliano, I would switch the picks in a heartbeat now and that's not a knock against Cogliano Oshie is just that good

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06-17-2009, 05:22 PM
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Many seemed surprised when Alexei Cherepanov kept falling in 2007.

I remember the TSN guys scrambling for stuff to put on the screen and things to say and kept using the phrase "off the board" when the Blues selected TJ Oshie in the 1st round out of a small MN high school in 2005. I remember a large part of the Blues fan base collectively saying "who the #@%$ is TJ Oshie?!?" That's turned out pretty well so far!

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06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
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THN had Forsberg in the early second round in '91... and he went 7th overall.

Morris was ranked in the '50's by the CSB when the Flames took him.

Mike Card was an early consideration for the first round and was barely drafted...

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06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
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I don't think the OP was talking about guys who went higher or lower by 10 or so picks. Carey Price is not a good example, he was a reach, but was not off the board. He was talking about a guys who were off the board, or others who fell completely off of it.

Blake Wheeler is a good example. Thomas Hickey is a good example. Jesse Niinimaki is a great example. Another is when Mike Morris was taken in the 1st round by the Sharks.

Adrian Foster might be the best of them all, he wasn't even in the CSB database when he was selected by the Devils, there was a long delay because the Devils had to explain to the league that he was draft-eligible. He wasn't even invited to the draft by the league, the Devils told him to show up. TSN didn't even know he was there, I believe Gord Miller's words were "apparently, Adrian Foster is here."

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Old
06-17-2009, 05:34 PM
  #25
Going Back to Cally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't think the OP was talking about guys who went higher or lower by 10 or so picks. Carey Price is not a good example, he was a reach, but was not off the board. He was talking about a guys who were off the board, or others who fell completely off of it.

Blake Wheeler is a good example. Thomas Hickey is a good example. Jesse Niinimaki is a great example. Another is when Mike Morris was taken in the 1st round by the Sharks.

Adrian Foster might be the best of them all, he wasn't even in the CSB database when he was selected by the Devils, there was a long delay because the Devils had to explain to the league that he was draft-eligible. He wasn't even invited to the draft by the league, the Devils told him to show up. TSN didn't even know he was there, I believe Gord Miller's words were "apparently, Adrian Foster is here."
Foster was also in the restroom when his name was called.

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