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Old
06-22-2009, 03:16 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Exactly. And he'll suit up for TCamp and start in an Ex game if he has to as well. For $3.5 million, wouldn't you?
He won't have to...Hatcher never did.

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06-22-2009, 03:16 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Incorrect. Rathje has NOT retired and is still on LTIR as a member of the Philadelphia Flyers. He has given up his number, but that has to do with the fact he will never play NHL hockey again, and he knows it.

Why would he retire? He gets paid IF he stays LTIR. He doesn't if he retires. He would be foolish to retire.
Hatcher and other LTIR players were listed on the Flyers roster with a connotation... At some past point, Rathje was removed.

Why would he retire? Honor, self-respect and being fair... He could receive millions in insurance payments... Some people actually are honest in their dealings, as hard as that is to believe.

I would like an official word on it rather than just conjecture... I will search.

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06-22-2009, 03:19 PM
  #128
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So at what point does Rathje's salary come off the books for the year? (Or at what point can we spend it)

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06-22-2009, 03:21 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
Hatcher and other LTIR players were listed on the Flyers roster with a connotation... At some past point, Rathje was removed.

Why would he retire? Honor, self-respect and being fair... He could receive millions in insurance payments... Some people actually are honest in their dealings, as hard as that is to believe.

I would like an official word on it rather than just conjecture... I will search.
Conjecture? Haha. I am not "guessing". I know for a fact Mike Rathje has NOT retired, and I am fairly knowledgeable about how the CBA works.

Hatcher only retired after his contract ended this past season. Rathje's contract ends at the conclusion of this upcoming season. He is due $3.5 million and will probably retire this time next year.

However, I am not perfect or a CBA genuis, so by all means, knock yourself out looking up Rathje's status as a member of the Philadelphia Flyers.

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06-22-2009, 03:21 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
So at what point does Rathje's salary come off the books for the year? (Or at what point can we spend it)
You can spend it now...the only problem is that I believe Rathje counts towards us going over the cap during the offseason (I've never really looked into this).

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06-22-2009, 03:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
So at what point does Rathje's salary come off the books for the year? (Or at what point can we spend it)
Rathje is LTIR. Which means his contract is a part of our salary cap all year long. However, when we spend over the cap, insurance covers the part of Rathje's contract that puts us over. (Confused yet?)

If we are $1 mill under, technically, we are not under it at all. $1 mill is allocated for Mike Rathje and the $2.5 that is over the cap gets paid by insurance.

So, the Flyers spend up to the cap every single day of the season. That is why, even if we were $1 mill under the cap all season, we will not have allowed ourselves a little wiggle room for deadline deals, because of Mike Rathje and his $3.5 mill salary.

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06-22-2009, 03:28 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You can spend it now...the only problem is that I believe Rathje counts towards us going over the cap during the offseason (I've never really looked into this).
how relevant is being over in the offseason?

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06-22-2009, 03:29 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You can spend it now...the only problem is that I believe Rathje counts towards us going over the cap during the offseason (I've never really looked into this).
Rathje's salary counts during the offseason and during the regualr season. During the regular season, insurance covers whatever puts us over the cap.

During the offseason, he counts without insurance covering, but you also get a 10% cap window in order to make moves.

Technically, the Flyers cap ceiling right now is in the low 60's ($55 or so + 10% cushion) INCLUDING Rathje. Once the season starts, the 10% cushion disappears but insurance kicks in to cover LTIR that puts us over.

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06-22-2009, 03:30 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Rathje is LTIR. Which means his contract is a part of our salary cap all year long. However, when we spend over the cap, insurance covers the part of Rathje's contract that puts us over. (Confused yet?)

If we are $1 mill under, technically, we are not under it at all. $1 mill is allocated for Mike Rathje and the $2.5 that is over the cap gets paid by insurance.

So, the Flyers spend up to the cap every single day of the season. That is why, even if we were $1 mill under the cap all season, we will not have allowed ourselves a little wiggle room for deadline deals, because of Mike Rathje and his $3.5 mill salary.
Ah, not exactly.

Rathje's salary is essentially irrelevant to the workings of our actual team during the season, because you can spend over the cap using his salary. Now, it's technically true that we're spending over the cap, but as far as the team that you can put on the ice, his contract is essentially irrelevant over the course of the season.

The reason we had problems last year is that we were taking advantage of this while Briere and Jones were out, and Holmgren went out and added salary to our team in the form of Alberts and Carle.

Now, where I do believe it matters is during the offseason when you have that 5-10% overage that is allowed (I forget the exact amount), I believe his contract counts during the summer and is problematic in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
how relevant is being over in the offseason?
Lets say Homer makes a deal to get Bouwmeester's rights and signs him to some deal X, and wants to get Knuble and sign him to some deal Y...however, he hasn't moved enough cap space to actually fit them under the cap yet, but intends to. In that scenario, we have a problem because there is that soft cap wiggle room that you eventually run out of.

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06-22-2009, 03:36 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
\
Lets say Homer makes a deal to get Bouwmeester's rights and signs him to some deal X, and wants to get Knuble and sign him to some deal Y...however, he hasn't moved enough cap space to actually fit them under the cap yet, but intends to. In that scenario, we have a problem because there is that soft cap wiggle room that you eventually run out of.
Okay, so it's just a matter of making sure we squeeze under by the time the season starts?

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06-22-2009, 03:37 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post


Lets say Homer makes a deal to get Bouwmeester's rights and signs him to some deal X, and wants to get Knuble and sign him to some deal Y...however, he hasn't moved enough cap space to actually fit them under the cap yet, but intends to. In that scenario, we have a problem because there is that soft cap wiggle room that you eventually run out of.
yeah that's right, you get to go 10% over the cap during the offseason, the smart way to handle that is just to use that money for Rathje's cap hit because it's a pretty dumb thing to go over the cap unless it's with guys who can be sent to the minors without waivers

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06-22-2009, 03:37 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
So at what point does Rathje's salary come off the books for the year? (Or at what point can we spend it)
The only way the Flyers can 'spend' Rathje's money is if they go over the cap; they get no relief for his salary while they are cap compliant.

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06-22-2009, 03:39 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The only way the Flyers can 'spend' Rathje's money is if they go over the cap; they get no relief for his salary while they are cap compliant.
that's a useless distinction

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06-22-2009, 03:41 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo0sE View Post
Eklund just had this to say: "The Jay Bouwmeester to Philly rumors are RAMPANT, leading many to believe that a decision could be made today on a MAJOR Philly deal..."

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...Rumors/1/21659
Ha!

To Philly
Jay Bo

To FLA.
Jones
Carle
Lupul

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06-22-2009, 03:42 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Okay, so it's just a matter of making sure we squeeze under by the time the season starts?
Right, but the fact that you have 3.5M in dead money impinges upon your wiggle room. Especially when we're talking about the massive deals in play here potentially.

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06-22-2009, 03:43 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Okay, so it's just a matter of making sure we squeeze under by the time the season starts?
You can go 10% (i think) over the salary cap during the offseason, but once the season starts you gotta be back under. So the problem Rathje presents is that his 3.5 million is on the books until the season starts when he can be placed on LTIR (there is no LTIR in the offseason), thus limiting the amount of money we can hold at one time during the summer

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06-22-2009, 03:48 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Conjecture? Haha. I am not "guessing". I know for a fact Mike Rathje has NOT retired, and I am fairly knowledgeable about how the CBA works.

Hatcher only retired after his contract ended this past season. Rathje's contract ends at the conclusion of this upcoming season. He is due $3.5 million and will probably retire this time next year.

However, I am not perfect or a CBA genuis, so by all means, knock yourself out looking up Rathje's status as a member of the Philadelphia Flyers.
Easy, Irish... By "conjecture" no insult was intended... I merely meant that I wanted written word, one way or the other... Guessing was not the question, I have no doubt that that is your belief, as mine is he retired. Closing the discussion with information from the Flyers or NHL/NHLPA is iron clad.

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06-22-2009, 03:49 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
that's a useless distinction
I disagree.

Since the salary cap in calculated on a daily basis during the regular season, that $3.5M is an annoyance on the Flyers' books even though they can get relief if they're over the cap.

If the Flyers are $3.5M (or less) short of the cap (not including Rathje's salary), they won't bank any cap savings. Having LTIR issues this season probably cost the Flyers home ice advantage by having to sign one day call-ups.

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06-22-2009, 03:54 PM
  #144
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With all this Rathje talk. Maybe he will play this season. I'd probably die a little bit if I saw him ever play again.

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06-22-2009, 04:02 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Ah, not exactly.

Rathje's salary is essentially irrelevant to the workings of our actual team during the season, because you can spend over the cap using his salary. Now, it's technically true that we're spending over the cap, but as far as the team that you can put on the ice, his contract is essentially irrelevant over the course of the season.

The reason we had problems last year is that we were taking advantage of this while Briere and Jones were out, and Holmgren went out and added salary to our team in the form of Alberts and Carle.

Now, where I do believe it matters is during the offseason when you have that 5-10% overage that is allowed (I forget the exact amount), I believe his contract counts during the summer and is problematic in that regard.
Not exactly? What part of my post was incorrect. I explained how things work as simply as I could (granted it is very complicated) and your post did not stray from anything I said. it only re-inforced my post.

I understand Rathje's salary may SEEM insignificant, but his salary is the reason we don't make many trade deadline deals.

Last seasons debacle with Briere and Carle is simply taking on salary when a big salary player is down, and making bad moves to get back under when the big salary is ready to return. Rathje's salary played a role in still preventing us from earning some "wiggle room" since we were under the cap so much.

You see, when your under the cap, you earn a little more space every day. If your under the cap by a million for a whole year, your daily allowed hit is slightly higher by the end of the season, allowing deadline deals and call-ups. Not for the Flyers though, thanks to Mike Rathje.

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06-22-2009, 04:03 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
Easy, Irish... By "conjecture" no insult was intended... I merely meant that I wanted written word, one way or the other... Guessing was not the question, I have no doubt that that is your belief, as mine is he retired. Closing the discussion with information from the Flyers or NHL/NHLPA is iron clad.
If you want written work to back-up my statements, then by all means look for them like you said you would, haha.

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06-22-2009, 04:04 PM
  #147
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I disagree.

Since the salary cap in calculated on a daily basis during the regular season, that $3.5M is an annoyance on the Flyers' books even though they can get relief if they're over the cap.

If the Flyers are $3.5M (or less) short of the cap (not including Rathje's salary), they won't bank any cap savings. Having LTIR issues this season probably cost the Flyers home ice advantage by having to sign one day call-ups.
This really is a red herring, because by placing a player on LTIR they're essentially gone from the books for the entirety of the season as far as the cap is concerned. The LTIR issues we had this year was that Holmgren filled the LTIR space of Jones and Briere with Alberts and Carle, which added significantly to the cap structure of our team. When Briere came back, all of his salary came back onto the cap, which meant that some moves were required (due to the added salary, not LTIR itself) to make it all work.

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06-22-2009, 04:09 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Not exactly? What part of my post was incorrect. I explained how things work as simply as I could (granted it is very complicated) and your post did not stray from anything I said. it only re-inforced my post.

I understand Rathje's salary may SEEM insignificant, but his salary is the reason we don't make many trade deadline deals.

Last seasons debacle with Briere and Carle is simply taking on salary when a big salary player is down, and making bad moves to get back under when the big salary is ready to return. Rathje's salary played a role in still preventing us from earning some "wiggle room" since we were under the cap so much.

You see, when your under the cap, you earn a little more space every day. If your under the cap by a million for a whole year, your daily allowed hit is slightly higher by the end of the season, allowing deadline deals and call-ups. Not for the Flyers though, thanks to Mike Rathje.
That's just it, no...it's not. We were well over the salary cap last season from the word go, and the only reason we could get "under" the salary cap is because Hatcher went onto LTIR rather than playing. Then Jones went on the LTIR and we picked up Alberts, who was using Jones' cap space when he first arrived. That was followed by Briere going on LTIR, which was ultimately cap space getting used (depending on how you want to look at it) by Alberts, Jones, and Carle in one way or another.

However, when Briere came back, that was pushing us back up to the ceiling of the salary cap, I mean seriously, look at our salary cap number w/out Hatcher and Rathje for last season (-$37K).

Rathje's LTIR status had no bearing on the fact that we couldn't make a deadline deal, we were just strapped with active players and would have had to move someone significant to pick up any salary.

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06-22-2009, 04:13 PM
  #149
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This really is a red herring, because by placing a player on LTIR they're essentially gone from the books for the entirety of the season as far as the cap is concerned. The LTIR issues we had this year was that Holmgren filled the LTIR space of Jones and Briere with Alberts and Carle, which added significantly to the cap structure of our team. When Briere came back, all of his salary came back onto the cap, which meant that some moves were required (due to the added salary, not LTIR itself) to make it all work.
I don't believe this is correct; my understanding is that they're only off the books when those salaries are over the cap. If I'm mistaken, I cheerfully withdraw my above posts.

As a very simple example: if the team's payroll is $45M and they lose a player that has a cap hit of $3M to LTIR (and he's not replaced by another player), their daily salary cap is still calculated at $45M because they're not over the cap.

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06-22-2009, 04:13 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I disagree.

Since the salary cap in calculated on a daily basis during the regular season, that $3.5M is an annoyance on the Flyers' books even though they can get relief if they're over the cap.

If the Flyers are $3.5M (or less) short of the cap (not including Rathje's salary), they won't bank any cap savings. Having LTIR issues this season probably cost the Flyers home ice advantage by having to sign one day call-ups.
Yeah but that had nothing to do with Rathje, that had to do with people coming OFF LTIR. For accounting purposes they can PRETEND that Rathje doesn't count against the cap, he doesn't have to figured in for practical purposes. There's no annoyance unless you count having to do maybe a bit of extra addition as an annoyance.

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