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Old
06-18-2009, 10:43 AM
  #51
OmniSens
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no thanks Weircioch stays

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:05 AM
  #52
Asquaredx2
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Absolutely no reason to trade Wiercioch when he's improving at the rate he is.

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Old
06-19-2009, 09:08 PM
  #53
The Optimist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
A

Foligno Spezza Alfie
Free agent/trade Fisher Free agent/Shannon

vs. Sedin Sedin Burrows
Demitra Kesler Free agent.

I'd much rather have ours next year.
Really? you'd rather have Shannon (unproven) and Foligno Spezza Alfie over Sedins (Point per game players), Burrows (steadily improving and is an actual 2 way player), Kesler (finished third for Selke trophy) and just had a breakout season, and Demitra (still got 50 points)? An aging Alfie and a no back check Spezza (who tries to one man the puck constantly) are good players, but I like the Canucks top 6 personally. Especially if those holes are improperly filled.

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Old
06-19-2009, 09:15 PM
  #54
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My god, how can Vancouver fans be complaining about this, Pat W. for Raymond straight up is a stretch, he is going to be a top NHL PMD in a few years...

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Old
06-19-2009, 09:29 PM
  #55
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I too agree that I would rather not move Weircioch for Raymond.

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Old
06-19-2009, 10:38 PM
  #56
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amIdunnitright View Post
Really? you'd rather have Shannon (unproven) and Foligno Spezza Alfie over Sedins (Point per game players), Burrows (steadily improving and is an actual 2 way player), Kesler (finished third for Selke trophy) and just had a breakout season, and Demitra (still got 50 points)? An aging Alfie and a no back check Spezza (who tries to one man the puck constantly) are good players, but I like the Canucks top 6 personally. Especially if those holes are improperly filled.
For sure. Say what you want about Spezza and his no backcheck, but that was an area that he'd been working on throughout the year last year - and under Clouston he was doing a pretty good job of it. He likes to give the puck away though, that's a problem. And Alfie might be ageing, but that guy is an amazing player - I can't even begin to describe how good he is.

As for Shannon, I'm not sure he's unproven anymore. He had a chance last year to stick in the NHL - the coaching change happened (he played incredible hockey under Clouston in Bingo) and from there he was excellent. On pace for around 50 points when he got the call to the NHL.

Foligno's really improved as well. Plus whoever we're getting for Heatley. Plus whoever we sign as a UFA. Plus Mike Fisher who has the potential to be a high 40 point player and a 20+ goal man (he's done it before).

We're certainly not the powerhouses we used to be - but at least we're not so top heavy. Good question you posed there.

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Old
06-20-2009, 12:31 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Lee View Post
Yeah, the Canucks will never part ways with his 23 points, he's untradeable.

Ottawa says no.
I can't find the exact article now but Gillis has been quoted as saying young players, specifically mentioning Raymond, will not be moved.

No one is untradeable but Raymond is far less likely to be moved. If he is moved, it won't be for a prospect/pick - the Canucks are not going to give up on him this early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasazi View Post
My god, how can Vancouver fans be complaining about this, Pat W. for Raymond straight up is a stretch, he is going to be a top NHL PMD in a few years...
Didn't Ottawa say Daigle was going to be a scoring threat for years? Prospects don't always pan out - that's why they are called prospects. Obviously Weirchorchachhrch is looking great so far, but he has infinitely less NHL experience than Raymond and to prefer having him OVER Raymond further proves the HFBoards way that prospects>players, and the #1 pick in a draft is always better than a Stanley cup.

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Old
06-20-2009, 12:34 AM
  #58
SpezDispenser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
I can't find the exact article now but Gillis has been quoted as saying young players, specifically mentioning Raymond, will not be moved.

No one is untradeable but Raymond is far less likely to be moved. If he is moved, it won't be for a prospect/pick - the Canucks are not going to give up on him this early.


Didn't Ottawa say Daigle was going to be a scoring threat for years? Prospects don't always pan out - that's why they are called prospects. Obviously Weirchorchachhrch is looking great so far, but he has infinitely less NHL experience than Raymond and to prefer having him OVER Raymond further proves the HFBoards way that prospects>players, and the #1 pick in a draft is always better than a Stanley cup.
I'll take my chances. Wiercioch will not be traded.

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Old
06-20-2009, 06:28 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
The Canucks top 6 was Sedin, Sedin, Burrows, Kesler, Sundin, Demitra.

Atleast you got 3 right.
I was responding to a post about Shannon being dumped. All that matters was Vancouver's projected top-6 at that time, not the one they finished the season with. At the time Shannon was dealt, Vancouver was loaded with weak midgets and could spare roster spots for anymore.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:40 AM
  #60
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Why would sen fans do this?

I'm a Canuck's fan and having watched Raymond over and over again this is all I got to say...

He's crap.


Patrick Wiercioch on the other hand is at a ppg pace in the NCAA. Sens hang up the phone on Gillis.....

But on the other hand.... knowing Brian Murray ..

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:30 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Didn't Ottawa say Daigle was going to be a scoring threat for years? Prospects don't always pan out - that's why they are called prospects. Obviously Weirchorchachhrch is looking great so far, but he has infinitely less NHL experience than Raymond and to prefer having him OVER Raymond further proves the HFBoards way that prospects>players, and the #1 pick in a draft is always better than a Stanley cup.
Anything can happen with prospects, but if that was the case would'nt everyone be dumping all over Hedman and Tavares? How many PPG Dmen are there in college? Not many.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:32 AM
  #62
Edler Von Gud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasazi View Post
My god, how can Vancouver fans be complaining about this, Pat W. for Raymond straight up is a stretch, he is going to be a top NHL PMD in a few years...
Or he could be the next Brett Skinner and top out as a good AHL defenseman or he could be the next Matt Carle and be hyped up only to see his play regress. Assuming he is going to be a top NHL PMD is living in a fantasy land and only setting up the kid for failure.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:36 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Edler Von Gud View Post
Or he could be the next Brett Skinner and top out as a good AHL defenseman or he could be the next Matt Carle and be hyped up only to see his play regress. Assuming he is going to be a top NHL PMD is living in a fantasy land and only setting up the kid for failure.
Complimenting his talents is setting him up for failure? Raymond is good and is going be a great player for Vancouver, but i'll take the chance with the future by keeping him and ignoring these prospect flukes that only happen once evry so often, it's impossible to judge exactly how a prospect is going to turn out, but to just sit there stubbornly saying hes going to be a career AHL'er is ludicrous, it could happen, but more times than not these type of players end up being good NHL players.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:53 AM
  #64
Asquaredx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Didn't Ottawa say Daigle was going to be a scoring threat for years? Prospects don't always pan out - that's why they are called prospects. Obviously Weirchorchachhrch is looking great so far, but he has infinitely less NHL experience than Raymond and to prefer having him OVER Raymond further proves the HFBoards way that prospects>players, and the #1 pick in a draft is always better than a Stanley cup.
That's a very fair point. Obviously a player with NHL experience > a player without any.

So, we should be thankful to trade Wiercioch to you for Raymond. But, we'll also give you Alex Picard for Cody Hodgson to make sure you aren't getting ripped off.

Deal?

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Old
06-20-2009, 12:12 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Asquaredx2 View Post
That's a very fair point. Obviously a player with NHL experience > a player without any.

So, we should be thankful to trade Wiercioch to you for Raymond. But, we'll also give you Alex Picard for Cody Hodgson to make sure you aren't getting ripped off.

Deal?
Sounds fair.

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Old
06-20-2009, 03:38 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
For sure. Say what you want about Spezza and his no backcheck, but that was an area that he'd been working on throughout the year last year - and under Clouston he was doing a pretty good job of it. He likes to give the puck away though, that's a problem. And Alfie might be ageing, but that guy is an amazing player - I can't even begin to describe how good he is.

As for Shannon, I'm not sure he's unproven anymore. He had a chance last year to stick in the NHL - the coaching change happened (he played incredible hockey under Clouston in Bingo) and from there he was excellent. On pace for around 50 points when he got the call to the NHL.

Foligno's really improved as well. Plus whoever we're getting for Heatley. Plus whoever we sign as a UFA. Plus Mike Fisher who has the potential to be a high 40 point player and a 20+ goal man (he's done it before).

We're certainly not the powerhouses we used to be - but at least we're not so top heavy. Good question you posed there.
No doubt Heatley will garnish some good players in return. I'm still unconvinced that Shannon is a regular NHL player. No disagreement about Alfredsson, but even the best can be slowed down by age. Spezza still has a long career ahead of him, so if he works on those things (defense and turnovers) he may even make Team Canada. I guess time will tell as to how things unfold.

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Old
06-20-2009, 04:01 PM
  #67
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What About Mason Raymond for Auld and Bell? I tried to start a trade proposal over it but it doesnt seem to be working.

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Old
06-20-2009, 04:45 PM
  #68
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There is 0 Ottawa trades Patrick Weircioch. He has the highest potential of any Ottawa prospect including mabe even Karlsson.

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Old
06-20-2009, 05:03 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
What About Mason Raymond for Auld and Bell? I tried to start a trade proposal over it but it doesnt seem to be working.
your last 6 words are correct.

Auld is a been there done that for Vancouver, dont see any desire to bring him back.

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Old
06-20-2009, 06:22 PM
  #70
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Old
06-20-2009, 07:00 PM
  #71
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Ottawa has no reason to deal Wiercioch at all. The Brett Skinner comparison was hilarious, considering Wiercioch just had a better season at 18 than Skinner did in his entire NCAA career.

Wiercioch is 6'5" (he's grown a lot since being drafted) and seemingly getting better with every game. The sky seems to be the limit for him, and he's not even close to filling out his body. Ottawa would be wise to hang onto him.

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Old
06-20-2009, 09:21 PM
  #72
Asquaredx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambofgod View Post
D. Sedin > Spezza
H. Sedin > Alfredsson

Kesler > Foligno
Burrows > Fisher
Demitra > Shannon

I think I'd rather have ours.


Plus, you've as much right to include the Sedins in these talks as we do of including Heatley.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:17 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambofgod View Post
D. Sedin < Spezza
H. Sedin < Alfredsson
Kesler < Foligno
Burrows > Fisher
Demitra < Shannon

I think I'd rather have ours.
Fixed


Last edited by Anasazi: 06-21-2009 at 09:48 AM.
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Old
06-20-2009, 10:23 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lambofgod View Post
D. Sedin > Spezza
H. Sedin > Alfredsson
Kesler > Foligno
Burrows > Fisher
Demitra > Shannon

I think I'd rather have ours.
Thank you for losing all credibility in one post.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:41 PM
  #75
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Let me ask Canuck fans a question, would you trade this guy?

Patrick Wiercioch
6'5, 185lbs, defenseman
2008-09 U. of Denver NCAA 36 12 23 35 26

Has an absolute cannon of a shot, solid play in both ends of the ice, behemoth size and he's not even done growing yet. Puts up a PPG as a rookie defenseman in the WCHA.

You could offer us a lot more than Raymond, we will turn it down. Way too much potential in this kid.

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