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Sedins reportedly want 63M-12 year deal... similar to Zetterberg's deal

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:18 PM
  #101
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It doesn't matter if your name is Zetterberg, Sedin or even Crosby. The league really needs to have a restriction on the length a player can be signed too.

7 years maximum......

Anything length beyond that is a risk to each team. What if in 4 years the Sedins are a bust & under this contact, the Canucks wouldn't be able to give these guys away. It could have the potential to financially finish some teams down the road.

I would hope Vancouver either counter offers or lets them became UFA's.

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06-18-2009, 01:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
As a Canucks fan I say do it.

I'm pretty sure that would include a NTC. It would be nice if we could say void the NTC during the last 4 years of the contract; that way if they decide to not retire we can trade em to a team with cap space but can't afford high salaries.
no way they would not have a NTC/NMC in a monster deal like this... maybe a lifted one like kaberle's if they don't make the playoffs or something...

and what's with all this talk about them retiring before the contract is done? seems like fans are banking on that to make this a good contract...

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06-18-2009, 01:20 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
It's about 12% lower cap hit than Zetterberg, 20% lower than Datsyuk...pretty darn significan. Considering it appears to be a bit of an opening offer from the Sedin camp I'd expect the difference to climb.
No, it's 12% less and 20% less than Zetterberg's and Datysuk's contracts, it's not a "12% lower cap hit". 12% of 57.4 is not 750k.

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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
But hey if you can't see the very real difference of almost a million dollars (or more than a million when talking Datsyuk) in the NHL today I really don't know what to say. That extra million or two (when both players are taken into account) can mean a hell of a lot to the quality of depth a team has.
That 750k is about a 1.3% lower cap hit. If you think that's a tremendous saving I really don't know what to say.

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06-18-2009, 01:20 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
if I'm the Canucks, I take that risk in a second!

The Sedins will not play in the NHL till 40... this is just a way to bring their cap hit down to $5.25mill - you add a few extra years before which they retire, to give them the money they want during their stay in the NHL.

The initial rumours were they were looking for $6.5mill/yr each... if you break down this rumoured 12-yr deal, to say $60mill over 9 years (where they retire at 37), they will make just over that $6.5mill/yr through their stay in the NHL.

They've already said numerous times now that they want to finish their playing career with MoDo... that they don't want to play in the NHL till their late 30s, and would like to walk away with still time left to finish their playing careers in Sweden.

If I had to guess, I'd say they'd be ready to retire by 36... but I just don't see them playing beyond 37.

And even at that age, considering how durable and consistent they've been, they should still be good hockey players in their mid-30s.

If this is what they're asking for 2 weeks before the deadline (when FA starts), I think it's a safe bet that they will be re-signed in Vancouver... no side is going to put their final offers on the table this early in the negotiating process.
And the other point that people don't mention is, how I believe the cap will be an issue in the next CBA. I think they will have to remove the floor because some teams cannot afford that much on payroll. Then you either soften the cap or you remove it. Then Detroit looks like geniuses with no cap and their core signed forever

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06-18-2009, 01:20 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by sixtyone View Post
no way they would not have a NTC/NMC in a monster deal like this... maybe a lifted one like kaberle's if they don't make the playoffs or something...

and what's with all this talk about them retiring before the contract is done? seems like fans are banking on that to make this a good contract...
or a full NTC that covers the first 6 years of the deal....limited thereafter

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06-18-2009, 01:21 PM
  #106
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Some people think that this is some sort of 'huge deal' or something. When in fact there aren't a lot of contracts out there that would be worse.

Gomez

Drury

Dipietro

Campbell

Maybe Briere

Even Horcoff's is only 6 yrs.

Yeesh...


Earth to Sedins! Earth to Sedins! Come in, Sedins!

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
Hahahaha...you say the Sedins have not won anything, yet you would be comfortable paying Gaborik 6 million and Heatley 7? Where is that facepalm emoticon?
uhh...no. Gaborik + Heatley > Sedin Cycle system IMO.

...I at least would have a better fuzzy feelin in my tummy tum tum with Heatley & Gaborik over the two twins. My opinion of course (and that of NHL 09 for XBOX 360, lol, but seriously now..wouldn't you???)

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:23 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by kingtut View Post
uhh...no. Gaborik + Heatley > Sedin Cycle system IMO.
Which part? Gaborik's 40 games average per season?

Or Heatley's primadonna status and 7 million cap hit? Or the assets we have to give up to acquire him?

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:24 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by sixtyone View Post
no way they would not have a NTC/NMC in a monster deal like this... maybe a lifted one like kaberle's if they don't make the playoffs or something...

and what's with all this talk about them retiring before the contract is done? seems like fans are banking on that to make this a good contract...
NTC or not, they'd be un-tradable.

Imagine the Sedins playing until they're 40. I don't. But i don't see them retiring when they know they're no longer top-flight players either. There's a benefit to signing them to a super-long term, but it's not a huge benefit.

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:24 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Which clearly demonstrates how absurd and appalling this amount really is. 750k isn't that much when it comes to NHL contracts. I'm shocked that they consider themselves on the same level as a Conn Smythe winner and Selke winner who have had tremendous playoff success.

What an absolute joke. Bye bye, enjoy yourselves in Toronto or wherever you end up.
Perhaps you need to read the article:

Quote:
According to a report on Swedish website expressen.se, Daniel and Henrik Sedin are looking for identical 12-year contracts worth $63 million each, comparable to the 12-year, $73 million deal that fellow countryman Henrik Zetterberg signed with the Detroit Red Wings.
Thats $10 million less over the term of the contract, AND thats their starting point...It will likely be less. So no, its not equal to Zetterburg.

I understand the apprehension of signing players to ridiculously long contracts and don't relish the idea myself, but to remain competitive you need to adapt. Until the CBA doesn't allow for this its going to be used and if we don't, we might as well rebuild now and hope by the time the CBA expires we'll be able to ice a decent team. Which is something I would consider at this point, but would also have risks involved.

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06-18-2009, 01:27 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Perhaps you need to read the article:



Thats $10 million less over the term of the contract, AND thats their starting point...It will likely be less. So no, its not equal to Zetterburg.

I understand the apprehension of signing players to ridiculously long contracts and don't relish the idea myself, but to remain competitive you need to adapt. Until the CBA doesn't allow for this its going to be used and if we don't, we might as well rebuild now and hope by the time the CBA expires we'll be able to ice a decent team. Which is something I would consider at this point, but would also have risks involved.
It's also no different than the old days in which you would own a player from 18-31. I'm old school, I don't like the thought of 10+ year contracts. But there are good reasons for having them I guess

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:28 PM
  #112
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If we donot resign the Sedins, Ohlund, and Sundin...wow...can you imagine the possibilities. For starter, no more Team Sweden influence. Perhaps a new direction??? That's alot of cap space saved to get to work and turn this franchise in a new direction. One I'd be willing to give my support for.

Imagine the possibilities...wow.....and technically Scotiabank says "You're richer than you think..." We'd be in the driver seat for attracting players and talent for a purpose of winning a cup...a place where we haven't had the luxury of being before.

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:28 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Some people think that this is some sort of 'huge deal' or something. When in fact there aren't a lot of contracts out there that would be worse.

Gomez

Drury

Dipietro

Campbell

Maybe Briere

Even Horcoff's is only 6 yrs.

Yeesh...


Earth to Sedins! Earth to Sedins! Come in, Sedins!
Absolutely brutal. There's no way Vancouver will join the illustrious ranks of NYR or Philly of teams with awful, albatross like contracts.

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06-18-2009, 01:29 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Perhaps you need to read the article:



Thats $10 million less over the term of the contract, AND thats their starting point...It will likely be less. So no, its not equal to Zetterburg.

I understand the apprehension of signing players to ridiculously long contracts and don't relish the idea myself, but to remain competitive you need to adapt. Until the CBA doesn't allow for this its going to be used and if we don't, we might as well rebuild now and hope by the time the CBA expires we'll be able to ice a decent team. Which is something I would consider at this point, but would also have risks involved.
What part of 750k is not much of a difference are you having a difficult time understanding?

Yes, 6 and 5.25 are not exactly the same. But they are comparable.

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:29 PM
  #115
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i like the Sedins and hope they get signed by my oilers but, this long term deal is a bad idea. The reason is that the Sedins play a style of hockey that does not age gracefully. Smart players like Lidstrom can be dominant at age 40, grinders cannot.

The Sedins do not rely on skating, skill, or finesse. They are the best grinders in the league. They get their goals by outworking the other team. This is ok when you are young and strong but it looks like every other 3rd liner when you slow down a bit.

At age 35, the Sedins will be good 3rd liners signed for 6 more years at over 5 mill per year. This is exactly lik one of my favourite players - Ryan Smyth. Great guy, all heart, but he is going to be a fringe 2nd liner by the time he hits 35.

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Old
06-18-2009, 01:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
That 750k is about a 1.3% lower cap hit. If you think that's a tremendous saving I really don't know what to say.
The players cap hit is 12 % less at $5.25 mil compared to $6.0 mil. The difference of 750 k is indeed 1.3 % of the total cap but that isn't what was discussed. A poster and clearly you seem to think that $5.25 is Zetterberg money or close enough that 750 k is insignificant. 12% difference is not insignificant. It says they are 88% the player Zetterberg is...and honestly that isn't that far off. I'd put it more at 80-85 % but it's not far off.

To put it other terms that 750 k if not spent at the beginning of the season is a $3 million dollar player at the deadline. $2 mil is a $8 million dollar player.

The difference in quality (in general of course) between a $1 million dollar player and a $2 million dollar player is signficant.

And because of that difference you are better able to build and continue to build better depth and surround the Sedins with that depth perhaps making a better TEAM.

No one is saying they are Zetterberg or Datsyuk. They aren't saying that. Quite the opposite. And because of that, the money is lower and the cap hit is lower because to be successful as a team they will need to build depth. They will need that "extra" money to do so. No question it helps that Detroit has the feeder system the canucks do not at this time.

But if you can't see how paying the 13th leading scorers in the NHL last year a couple of million less than an admittedly better tandem can't work out in the canucks favour through using increased depth to win I don't really know what to say to convince you otherwise. If you can't see the difference between a $1 mil player and $2 mil player I don't know what to say.

The twins at that money will not drag the team down. If they hit the UFA market I'd guess that $5.25 mil a year will be significantly below what the market would pay.

There are other contracts I worry about more as a canuck fan...well one contract. I worry far more about tying up $6 mil or more long term in a Luongo extension. As much as i think he's a great goaltender that just seems too much right now.


Last edited by tantalum: 06-18-2009 at 01:38 PM.
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Old
06-18-2009, 01:30 PM
  #117
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Why is everyone so sure players on these long term contracts are all going to retire before the end of their deals?

Just imagine the Sedins being in Vancouver with a 10 million cap hit when they are 40...yikes.

Far too long of a deal.

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06-18-2009, 01:31 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
Which part? Gaborik's 40 games average per season?

Or Heatley's primadonna status and 7 million cap hit? Or the assets we have to give up to acquire him?

Well whose to say the Sedin's won;'t someday be injury struck. Havlat proved many non believers and he did pretty good. The point is that there would be cap room to get some prime elite talent and perhaps even some bargains (ie. get Gabroik on a cheap base with games played incentives, etc.) yes we would have to trade too but its not unheard of. Clearly the core needs a boost and with the young guys we have, and added talent, this team could still go places. With a longterm marriage with the Sedins, I just don't see it I'm sorry.

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06-18-2009, 01:31 PM
  #119
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Wow, I really thought people would stop hating on the Sedins if they played well in the playoffs. Nope. Really, you think they're replaceable on the open market? Sure, name 2 of the 4 forwards of their calibre out there and say we should sign them. That's likely, relying on outbidding 30 teams for two UFAs, in fashion that has never happened in franchise history. People are mad they haven't won us a cup. There's 30 teams. THIRTY teams. Just because they don't bring home a cup every year, doesn't mean you throw them under the bus.

In the 2000's, only Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim, Ottawa, Carolina, Edmonton, Tampa, Calgary, New Jersey, Colorado and Dallas have made the finals. Those other 19 teams should dump their core and rebuild!! The whole "they aren't winners" argument is just a cheap excuse to hate the sedins because they aren't as fast as Bure or as Canadian as Linden.

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06-18-2009, 01:31 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
NTC or not, they'd be un-tradable.

Imagine the Sedins playing until they're 40. I don't. But i don't see them retiring when they know they're no longer top-flight players either. There's a benefit to signing them to a super-long term, but it's not a huge benefit.
anything is possible... they don't play a strong physical game or get into situations that would cause them harm (like you don't see them gunning for the corners every game)... sure they could get hurt at any point but with the way players take care of themselves these days, who knows, they could easily play till 37, 38, or 39...

it just seems like people are hoping they are done at 35 and then they have all this cap space... that doesn't make the contract a good one, hoping for early retirement

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06-18-2009, 01:32 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
Some people think that this is some sort of 'huge deal' or something. When in fact there aren't a lot of contracts out there that would be worse.

Gomez

Drury


Dipietro

Campbell

Maybe Briere

Even Horcoff's is only 6 yrs.

Yeesh...


Earth to Sedins! Earth to Sedins! Come in, Sedins!
Those will be the guys we're trading to get if we don't re-sign the Sedins.

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06-18-2009, 01:32 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
What part of 750k is not much of a difference are you having a difficult time understanding?

Yes, 6 and 5.25 are not exactly the same. But they are comparable.
They are NOT comparable as this is a STARTING POINT. Their final figure will probably be lower than this. What part of that are you having a difficult time understanding?

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06-18-2009, 01:35 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by kingtut View Post
Well whose to say the Sedin's won;'t someday be injury struck. Havlat proved many non believers and he did pretty good. The point is that there would be cap room to get some prime elite talent and perhaps even some bargains (ie. get Gabroik on a cheap base with games played incentives, etc.) yes we would have to trade too but its not unheard of. Clearly the core needs a boost and with the young guys we have, and added talent, this team could still go places. With a longterm marriage with the Sedins, I just don't see it I'm sorry.

Okay...let me try to spell this out to you. If this is a starting point, then it is very likely that the Sedins will end up signing for less. With that, we could have both the Sedins AND Gaborik (using your theory of incentives based on games played). Except in this case, when Gaborik goes down (as his history suggests) then we actually have players to pick up the slack!!!!

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06-18-2009, 01:35 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by wilty00 View Post
This doesn't make any sense to me. These guys have said all along they want to finish their careers in Sweden playing for Modo back home... why would they sign 12 year deals?
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Originally Posted by Roo View Post
LOL

good luck getting signed till you're 40

28 yr olds dont get deals that long
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Originally Posted by Inker View Post
I'm not a fan of having 10.5 mil tied up in 2 40 year olds, but for the first 4-6 years of the deal it would be a steal.
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
OMGZ these b getin zetts monies!11111

5.25 a year for each isn't too bad, it's the freakin' 12 year thing that's whacked.
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Originally Posted by NHLcrazy View Post
And I bet they want the same team to sign them both...

Anything more than 6 years is absurd in my mind.
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Originally Posted by kingtut View Post
WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY tooooo Long IMO!!!!

.......


Seriously, can somebody please explain to me why people do not understand these deals.

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06-18-2009, 01:36 PM
  #125
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Why is everyone so sure players on these long term contracts are all going to retire before the end of their deals?

Just imagine the Sedins being in Vancouver with a 10 million cap hit when they are 40...yikes.

Far too long of a deal.
What makes you think the Sedin's are going to want to play for a million a year at age 38, 39, 40?

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