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Prospects Camp vs Oilers Front Office - $$

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03-26-2004, 02:35 PM
  #1
theoilers
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Prospects Camp vs Oilers Front Office - $$

I hear many people saying to keep the prospects camp open. I don’t think the Oilers should charge because for practises, this could be seen as price gauging and seeing players just skate, don’t think it is worth paying $10 for.

What I wanted to say is that if the Oilers don’t want to hold the camp due due financial reasons (plane tickets, hotel fares, per-diem, renting ice, admin costs, etc) so be it. Look, the Oilers are going to a 4 day work week starting September 16 due to CBA. They are also offering leave of absences, retirement packages, etc. I feel for the front office Oilers employees and their families with this CBA. If it means 1 less pay day, that hurts. Forgot the prospects camp as I would rather they spend the money paying and retaining employees during the lock-out!

I want them to make sure front office staff is taken care of first before soon to be millionaires we call prospects!

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03-26-2004, 02:40 PM
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you've got to protect that which is most valuable to you, ie. your talent.

It's awesome that they are finding work for their non-essential front office staff, definitely commendable and kudos to them, but the reality is most of those people aren't as important to the organization's success as/are more replaceable than Brodziak becoming a 2nd line C, for example.

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03-26-2004, 03:13 PM
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As much as I live and breathe for the prospect camp while it is at Millenium, I have to agree with theoilers or The Oilers if you will.

To continue the prospects camp while letting good long term employees go would be shortsighted and not the classy way we expect this organization to act.

The prospects will continue to develop regardless of whether they spend 4 days in Edmonton in the summer.

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03-26-2004, 03:23 PM
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Boondock Saint
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They should hold a camp only for the NCAA guys..... they have to pay their own way anyways... :p

edit: and btw, I grudgingly admit that slats is right here. As beneficial as I feel a prospect camp would be, I think that treating full-time employees well is the classy way to go.

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03-26-2004, 03:27 PM
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I dunno

I disagree that it would be price guaging? You would not be willing to spen $10 to watch some of the up and coming stars yet you would be willing to spend 70-145 to see a game. I think $10 is pretty small. Heck a movie is more expensive. Personally I would spend a lot more and be there each day. You spend money to go in the gate at peewee tournaments, etc.

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03-26-2004, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
The prospects will continue to develop regardless of whether they spend 4 days in Edmonton in the summer.
In all honesty, that's probably a good way to sum it up.

It wouldn't hurt, though, to have one anyways.

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03-26-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
They should hold a camp only for the NCAA guys..... they have to pay their own way anyways... :p

edit: and btw, I grudgingly admit that slats is right here. As beneficial as I feel a prospect camp would be, I think that treating full-time employees well is the classy way to go.

I am not suggesting that they cut staff to hold the prospect camp but if they could market it as an event and charge some small admission to recoup the costs I think that would be alright. He emntioned that it would look petty to do so but yet they charge $20 some dollars for downstairs passes during games so I think that would be no different if not less so. I paid the $20 happily by the way. I mean I only get to 2 games per year so it is not bad.

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Old
03-26-2004, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
In all honesty, that's probably a good way to sum it up.

It wouldn't hurt, though, to have one anyways.

I think it would be just as much for the fans than the players. If there is a lockout the fans will be starved for hockey and this will be a way to keep their thirst quenched for the Oilers and help keep the connection between the team and fans. Do you remember the baseball fiasco? Fans ended up forgetting about baseball and could care less when they came back as they were a distant memory. I do not think I would be the only one willing to pay as both my borthers and a couple of friends I know would go. we were so upset we could not go to the last one.


Last edited by aspin: 03-26-2004 at 03:37 PM.
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Old
03-26-2004, 04:05 PM
  #9
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well i suppose they could do this hold the camp but let the players stay with employees/players/coaches etc, i think slats let gretzky and recently blackburn stay with his family rite? that should cut down costs. (i can imagine speeds breaking the door down so he can get mikhnov )

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03-26-2004, 08:52 PM
  #10
Slats432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
In all honesty, that's probably a good way to sum it up.

It wouldn't hurt, though, to have one anyways.
Don't get me wrong, all things considered equal, have the camp. But not at the expense of letting loose good full time employees.

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03-26-2004, 09:29 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Don't get me wrong, all things considered equal, have the camp. But not at the expense of letting loose good full time employees.
yeah, looking at it in that way, tough to disagree.

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Old
03-26-2004, 09:43 PM
  #12
Matts
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Just exactly how much

will this camp cost or what did it cost last season? The Oilers are on record as saying they'll turn a profit this year even if they don't make the playoffs.

Another camp like this shouldn't take too much from that profit, should it?

It's a fine investment for the future when maybe it turns the difference to a guy that can take his team to the lofty heights of the 2nd round and then the owners can take back their investment in playoff revenue.

Shorterm pain for longterm gain. And a year you'll turn a profit seems ill fitting for a season without a prospect camp

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Old
03-26-2004, 10:11 PM
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Well, do they pay for each flight to and from? That alone would be a pretty penny.

On the other hand, the Journal has about three stories a summer about the Oildrop since Matty went into semi-retirement, so anything that gets them into the paper at that time of year is a good thing.

Plus, these kids go back with an idea about what they need to do to make the NHL. Especially kids who can't come to camp (NCAA, Euro's) for whatever reason.

For instance, it would likely be their only chance to check out this kid McDonald right? He can't come to camp.

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03-27-2004, 01:59 PM
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I've always wondered why teams don't do more with their prospects in the summer. It seems to me that there are so many little things that the Oilers want their players to be able to do-faceoffs, defensive things etc, that the summer would be an ideal time to maybe bring in the top 10 prospects in the organization, and just work with them on the fine little details of the game. There was a thread about Bergeron on here earlier where someone was complaining about the fact that the coaching staff doesn't work with him on the little details of his position, and someone else made the point that the coaching staff don't have time to do this. Surely the Oilers have an idea of holes in JDD's game. WOuldn't he benefit from some time with Pete Peeters, working on his game? I'm totally down with the penny-wise, pound-foolish side of this debate.

On a side note, maybe I'm going to seem a little heartless on this one, but I'd rather that they spent the money on the camp then the employees if it came down to it. I have friends who work in sport, and they all know that part of the downside of the game is that you risk getting laid off if there is a work stoppage. Like any other jobs, sport has its upsides (inside knowledge, association with the team) and its downsides (pay is usually less than you could make elsewhere, risk of work stoppages) and you make your choice to accept both when you sign up to work for the team.

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Old
03-27-2004, 02:11 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds
you've got to protect that which is most valuable to you, ie. your talent.

It's awesome that they are finding work for their non-essential front office staff, definitely commendable and kudos to them, but the reality is most of those people aren't as important to the organization's success as/are more replaceable than Brodziak becoming a 2nd line C, for example.
Sorry Speeds, but this is a very insensitive thing to say about those many people who work so hard behind the scenes. Talent is talent but we are talking about the livehood of good people whose work puts bums in seats, heal injuries, wash equipment, and do the many little things required to ice a team.

The Oiler organization's priority is in the right spot. Loyalty to the its behind the scenes staff who will be most affected financially by a labour strike.

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Old
03-27-2004, 02:52 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudcrutch79
On a side note, maybe I'm going to seem a little heartless on this one, but I'd rather that they spent the money on the camp then the employees if it came down to it. I have friends who work in sport, and they all know that part of the downside of the game is that you risk getting laid off if there is a work stoppage. Like any other jobs, sport has its upsides (inside knowledge, association with the team) and its downsides (pay is usually less than you could make elsewhere, risk of work stoppages) and you make your choice to accept both when you sign up to work for the team.
And the scout that you lose that is going to find you that next good prospect? And the promotion people that work and get the Provincial lottery done so that your team can be economically viable and not playing next season in Houston? And the people that sit and figure out that half price game day tickets are a good thing?

For four days in the summer.

It sure is easy to take that stance when it isn't your job that you are giving away.

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03-27-2004, 03:10 PM
  #17
mudcrutch79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
And the scout that you lose that is going to find you that next good prospect? And the promotion people that work and get the Provincial lottery done so that your team can be economically viable and not playing next season in Houston? And the people that sit and figure out that half price game day tickets are a good thing?

For four days in the summer.

It sure is easy to take that stance when it isn't your job that you are giving away.
First off, I really don't think that this is an A or B situation. The summer camp being gone likely doesn't really save that much money. In terms of front office cuts I doubt that they're looking at laying off scouts-that simply doesn't make sense, and from what I've read, this team doesn't really have huge cash flow problems. Basically, it's easy to figure out who you should keep on during the lockout. All the team needs to do is figure out what departments are still going to be relevant, or able to generate revenue during the lockout. Scouting-still highly relevant, and none of its functions are impacted by the lockout. Ticket sales-not so much. Selling hockey tickets in Edmonton isn't really a high skill job, and it's much less important to keep the capacity in place, as the people are, to be honest, somewhat readily replaced. The same goes for things like game presentation or what not. I've seen mention in other places that there is some discussion of moving people to businesses owned by the various owners during the lockout-that's a smart move, in my opinion. Really though, if you work for the Oilers, you've had to know that there has been a lockout coming for a while now, and the team has now informed you that they are going to be making cutbacks during the lockout. YOu have 6 months to find a different job if this is a real problem for you, or you can stick it out, and take the risk. If you make that decision, you've got to accept that the cards might not fall the way you want them to.

I've alluded to this before, but one of my undergraduate degree is in Sports Administration, and one of the many reasons that I decided not to go and work in sport is precisely this. It's an industry that's difficult to move up in, with crappy pay and not much security. There are some cool benefits, but some risks. As I said above, I have friends who are going to be looking for jobs come September-that sucks for them and I hope that they can catch on in the AHL or something for the duration, but they got into this with their eyes open, and they knew that this was a risk. We've been talking since about 2001 of the possibility that those of us who went into hockey would be without jobs in 2004. Everyone knew about this. C'est la vie.

As far as it being easy to do this with someone else's job, remember that the next time you call for someone to be fired or traded. The principle should be the same, even if the person makes a couple mil a year.

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