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Phoenix - Calgary

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:11 AM
  #1
SR
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Phoenix - Calgary

To Phoenix:
Cammallerie
Phaneuf
2nd

To Calgary:
6th over all
Jovanovski
Porter

Killing two bird with one stone here, imo.

Phoenix gets a solid 1st/2nd line center and a amazing dman coming off a not so good year.

Calgary gets a solid under rated defensmen in Jovo supplying some leadership
A Hobey Baker award winner in Kevin Porter
and the 6th over all pick

Thoughts, to much, to less, flame away.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:20 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
To Phoenix:
Cammallerie
Phaneuf
2nd

To Calgary:
6th over all
Jovanovski
Porter

Killing two bird with one stone here, imo.

Phoenix gets a solid 1st/2nd line center and a amazing dman coming off a not so good year.

Calgary gets a solid under rated defensmen in Jovo supplying some leadership
A Hobey Baker award winner in Kevin Porter
and the 6th over all pick

Thoughts, to much, to less, flame away.
Wait, when was Jovo underrated? HAVE YOU SEEN HIS SALARY??!

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:21 AM
  #3
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Originally Posted by Laterade View Post
Wait, when was Jovo underrated? HAVE YOU SEEN HIS SALARY??!
Seen it, many times. He is very under rated on these boards, imo. Needless to say, still has some solid years ahead of him.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:31 AM
  #4
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Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.

I suppose I'll add a little content, as well, so it's not just pointless dickheadery, on my part...

1. Cammalleri is UFA and will not sign in Phoenix, unless the Coyotes significantly outbid any other teams that make an offer. There is no other reason why he would consider signing in Phoenix. Crappy team, uncertain future, all kinds of drama and instability. Just no good. The Coyotes cannot afford to beat all other offers by a significant amount. We are bankrupt, we have no money, and the league will be footing the bill for the team. The NHL isn't going to let us give Mike Cammalleri fourty million dollars. That's probably what it would take, and it's just not going to happen.

2. Calgary doesn't have a second round pick this draft. I doubt they'll want to give up their second next year, as they're already giving us their first next year.
Calgary does have our third(67th), this year, though, from the Jokinen trade.

So, perhaps remove Cammalleri because he serves no purpose, and then remove the pick from Calgary's side and the prospect from Phoenix's side.

Now it becomes Dion Phaneuf for Ed Jovanovski and the sixth overall pick in 2009.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:36 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Laterade View Post
Wait, when was Jovo underrated? HAVE YOU SEEN HIS SALARY??!
Coyotes fan, here. HATED the Jovanovski signing from DAY ONE. I HATED his GUTS his entire first season in Phoenix, too. He SUCKED! The next year, though, he earned every dollar. Last season, he struggled offensively(on the league's second worst offensive team), but picked up every other aspect of his game to a level he's probably never gotten to at any other point in his career(which isn't saying a whole lot, as he's always been pretty much just a mean and nasty, one-way, offensive defenseman his whole career). Again, I would not say that he was significantly overpaid, last season. Especially not when you start looking at how much other defenseman have started to get. Starting next season, Jovo's salary goes down. Other defenseman's salaries will go up. From a guy who was against the signing in the first place, and was out to lynch the guy after his first season, I will now admit that I don't think Jovanovski is really overpaid, and I have no problem with him being on the team.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:39 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.

I suppose I'll add a little content, as well, so it's not just pointless dickheadery, on my part...

1. Cammalleri is UFA and will not sign in Phoenix, unless the Coyotes significantly outbid any other teams that make an offer. There is no other reason why he would consider signing in Phoenix. Crappy team, uncertain future, all kinds of drama and instability. Just no good. The Coyotes cannot afford to beat all other offers by a significant amount. We are bankrupt, we have no money, and the league will be footing the bill for the team. The NHL isn't going to let us give Mike Cammalleri fourty million dollars. That's probably what it would take, and it's just not going to happen.

2. Calgary doesn't have a second round pick this draft. I doubt they'll want to give up their second next year, as they're already giving us their first next year.
Calgary does have our third(67th), this year, though, from the Jokinen trade.

So, perhaps remove Cammalleri because he serves no purpose, and then remove the pick from Calgary's side and the prospect from Phoenix's side.

Now it becomes Dion Phaneuf for Ed Jovanovski and the sixth overall pick in 2009.
Sheesh RT, where would I be without you on this board?

Was not aware of the lack of the 2nd on Calgary's part, my fault. If this Phoenix team was stable, and were able to spend to the cap, what would your thoughts be?

Jovanovski and the 6th over all for Phaneuf is an over payment, in my book.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:40 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.

I suppose I'll add a little content, as well, so it's not just pointless dickheadery, on my part...

1. Cammalleri is UFA and will not sign in Phoenix, unless the Coyotes significantly outbid any other teams that make an offer. There is no other reason why he would consider signing in Phoenix. Crappy team, uncertain future, all kinds of drama and instability. Just no good. The Coyotes cannot afford to beat all other offers by a significant amount. We are bankrupt, we have no money, and the league will be footing the bill for the team. The NHL isn't going to let us give Mike Cammalleri fourty million dollars. That's probably what it would take, and it's just not going to happen.

2. Calgary doesn't have a second round pick this draft. I doubt they'll want to give up their second next year, as they're already giving us their first next year.
Calgary does have our third(67th), this year, though, from the Jokinen trade.

So, perhaps remove Cammalleri because he serves no purpose, and then remove the pick from Calgary's side and the prospect from Phoenix's side.

Now it becomes Dion Phaneuf for Ed Jovanovski and the sixth overall pick in 2009.
then Calgary will draft OEL if that happens and god help us all if Jovo comes back to the NW division.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:41 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Coyotes fan, here. HATED the Jovanovski signing from DAY ONE. I HATED his GUTS his entire first season in Phoenix, too. He SUCKED! The next year, though, he earned every dollar. Last season, he struggled offensively(on the league's second worst offensive team), but picked up every other aspect of his game to a level he's probably never gotten to at any other point in his career(which isn't saying a whole lot, as he's always been pretty much just a mean and nasty, one-way, offensive defenseman his whole career). Again, I would not say that he was significantly overpaid, last season. Especially not when you start looking at how much other defenseman have started to get. Starting next season, Jovo's salary goes down. Other defenseman's salaries will go up. From a guy who was against the signing in the first place, and was out to lynch the guy after his first season, I will now admit that I don't think Jovanovski is really overpaid, and I have no problem with him being on the team.
Holy smokes, and I thought I was the only one on earth that thought this too, good post, RT, well said.

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Old
06-18-2009, 03:47 AM
  #9
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I can't say what my thoughts would really be. It's too late for me to really think about it, and I've had too much beer to drink. What I will say, though, is that I don't really place any value, whatsoever, on the "rights" to a pending UFA. Not unless, of course, a contract as already been agreed upon, in principal. In Cammalleri's case, I can't see him not testing the market. Not even for Calgary.

Also, I don't see the Flames going for it. Their competitive window is sliding downward. People will argue how fast it's falling and how much room is left. I won't get into that. I think if they are going to win with the current core of players, it will have to be in the next few years. That sixth overall won't be a huge part of that. Phaneuf to Jovanovski is probably not something that Calgary fans will see as helping their chances to get that championship in the next handfull of years.

For Phoenix it works much better simply because Phaneuf is much younger than Jovanovski. The problem is that Jovo's contract will expire in a couple of years, and that sixth overall pick will still be playing for dirt cheap. Phaneuf is already very expensive, and will be very expensive for at least the next ten or twelve years of his career.

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Old
06-18-2009, 08:50 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.

I suppose I'll add a little content, as well, so it's not just pointless dickheadery, on my part...

1. Cammalleri is UFA and will not sign in Phoenix, unless the Coyotes significantly outbid any other teams that make an offer. There is no other reason why he would consider signing in Phoenix. Crappy team, uncertain future, all kinds of drama and instability. Just no good. The Coyotes cannot afford to beat all other offers by a significant amount. We are bankrupt, we have no money, and the league will be footing the bill for the team. The NHL isn't going to let us give Mike Cammalleri fourty million dollars. That's probably what it would take, and it's just not going to happen.

2. Calgary doesn't have a second round pick this draft. I doubt they'll want to give up their second next year, as they're already giving us their first next year.
Calgary does have our third(67th), this year, though, from the Jokinen trade.

So, perhaps remove Cammalleri because he serves no purpose, and then remove the pick from Calgary's side and the prospect from Phoenix's side.

Now it becomes Dion Phaneuf for Ed Jovanovski and the sixth overall pick in 2009.
the Flames don't have a 2nd already in 2010 either I believe we sent it to Colorado in the Leopold deal... and I agree your changes are much better than the OP... and while the value is very good what you say in the following post is dead on... we have a small window to win and we feel Phaneuf will help more than Jovo will

Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
I can't say what my thoughts would really be. It's too late for me to really think about it, and I've had too much beer to drink. What I will say, though, is that I don't really place any value, whatsoever, on the "rights" to a pending UFA. Not unless, of course, a contract as already been agreed upon, in principal. In Cammalleri's case, I can't see him not testing the market. Not even for Calgary.

Also, I don't see the Flames going for it. Their competitive window is sliding downward. People will argue how fast it's falling and how much room is left. I won't get into that. I think if they are going to win with the current core of players, it will have to be in the next few years. That sixth overall won't be a huge part of that. Phaneuf to Jovanovski is probably not something that Calgary fans will see as helping their chances to get that championship in the next handfull of years.

For Phoenix it works much better simply because Phaneuf is much younger than Jovanovski. The problem is that Jovo's contract will expire in a couple of years, and that sixth overall pick will still be playing for dirt cheap. Phaneuf is already very expensive, and will be very expensive for at least the next ten or twelve years of his career.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:56 AM
  #11
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Damn. That's a lot of missing picks. Makes that closing window even more crucial, I suppose. At least Backlund appears to have been a very nice, later(in the first, anyway) find.

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Seen it, many times. He is very under rated on these boards, imo. Needless to say, still has some solid years ahead of him.

...not as underrated as Phaneuf is on these boards. Phaneuf = the most over-hated, underrated player on HF

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06-18-2009, 12:44 PM
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Sutter would have to be smoking some really ridiculous crack if he was to pull the trigger on that deal. Not to mention, Cammalleri probably won't sign in Phoenix anyway. Its kind of a waste.

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06-18-2009, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Damn. That's a lot of missing picks. Makes that closing window even more crucial, I suppose. At least Backlund appears to have been a very nice, later(in the first, anyway) find.
I agree on Backlund and actually in our past 2 drafts we have done pretty well I think which has afforded us a chance to move a few more picks than normal to try and make that push... in the '07 draft we managed Backlund and like you said he appears to be a pretty good pick... we also followed that up with John Negrin and Keith Aulie who are both coming along very nicely for our blueline... then the '08 draft saw us take Negrin who has really taken a step forward this season, Mitch Wahl who has shown to be a very solid playoff performer in the WHL (27 points in 33 playoff games)... then we took Bouma who seems to have shown improvement and managed nearly a point per game (12 in 13) in 3 rounds of the WHL playoffs... Nick Larson is still an unknown to me and will likely be headed off to University this fall anyways... TJ Broadie is looking like a 4th round steal for us... he hasearned an invite to Canada's under 20 camp and has managed 140 points as a defenseman over the past 2 seasons... word i his defensive game has shown vast improvement... grantham is looking like our tough guy of the future down in Kelowna... coming off a season with just shy of 200 PIM and more impressively to me is the 12 goals and 29 points (both of which had doubled his WHL career numbers)... and deilert doesn't look like he played really this year amassing 12 GP between SEL and Swe-1

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Old
06-18-2009, 09:12 PM
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do it then flip Cammalleri's rights at the draft for a 2nd.

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06-18-2009, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Fan View Post
do it then flip Cammalleri's rights at the draft for a 2nd.
What team is going to give up a second rounder for a player that is going to test the market no matter what? Rights are worthless, unless a deal is worked out first. Squidy isn't going to be working out a deal before he hits the market and sees what he can get.

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06-18-2009, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
To Phoenix:
Cammallerie
Phaneuf
2nd

To Calgary:
6th over all
Jovanovski
Porter

Killing two bird with one stone here, imo.

Phoenix gets a solid 1st/2nd line center and a amazing dman coming off a not so good year.

Calgary gets a solid under rated defensmen in Jovo supplying some leadership
A Hobey Baker award winner in Kevin Porter
and the 6th over all pick

Thoughts, to much, to less, flame away.
More like...

To Phoenix:
Phaneuf

To Calgary:
6th over all
Jovanovski
Porter

I still wouldn't expect Calgary to accept but it may get them talking.

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:04 PM
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Cammalleri's right are worthless, you can have him July 1st for highest price. As stated before we don't have a 2nd.

If it's the 6th, Jovanovski and Porter for Phaneuf, then I think there is adequate value there. Given Sutter's relationship with Phaneuf and the aforementioned window of opportunity, I doubt they move Phaneuf, but the valuation seems about right.

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Old
06-19-2009, 12:21 AM
  #19
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I'd carry Jovo (and friends) to Calgary for Phaneuf. And I expect Jovo may well be moved next week. Hmmmm....

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06-19-2009, 09:51 AM
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I'd carry Jovo (and friends) to Calgary for Phaneuf. And I expect Jovo may well be moved next week. Hmmmm....
what would you say are Phoenix's needs?

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06-19-2009, 10:18 AM
  #21
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what would you say are Phoenix's needs?
outside of a new owner with deep pockets and the elimination of the outside distraction that Balsille has made with his recent attempt to purchase the club Phoenix desperately needs time for their young players to mature.

Overall, they are fairly well stocked with prospects. Their depth of their blueline prospects is underrated (Goncharov, Summers, Stone, Ross, Ahnelov) but is often highlighted as their most glaring potential need. Depth is one thing but outside of Goncharov Phoenix looks like they lack a legitimate player who can assume top 1-2 minutes. I think Phoenix is covered with guys who can fill slots 3-6 but could likely use another guy who could eventually replace Jovo's minutes.

Scoring at the wings is their secondary priority IMO. Boedker is underrated on the boards here but he's going to be a breakout star on this team sooner rather than later. I also think that if Phoenix is looking to move Mueller back to center this year then they might elect to move Turris over to the wing to take full advantage of his outstanding shot.

If I was ranking these in terms of immediate needs, scoring wingers would be #1 and depth on D would be #2.

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Old
06-19-2009, 11:08 AM
  #22
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outside of a new owner with deep pockets and the elimination of the outside distraction that Balsille has made with his recent attempt to purchase the club Phoenix desperately needs time for their young players to mature.

Overall, they are fairly well stocked with prospects. Their depth of their blueline prospects is underrated (Goncharov, Summers, Stone, Ross, Ahnelov) but is often highlighted as their most glaring potential need. Depth is one thing but outside of Goncharov Phoenix looks like they lack a legitimate player who can assume top 1-2 minutes. I think Phoenix is covered with guys who can fill slots 3-6 but could likely use another guy who could eventually replace Jovo's minutes.

Scoring at the wings is their secondary priority IMO. Boedker is underrated on the boards here but he's going to be a breakout star on this team sooner rather than later. I also think that if Phoenix is looking to move Mueller back to center this year then they might elect to move Turris over to the wing to take full advantage of his outstanding shot.

If I was ranking these in terms of immediate needs, scoring wingers would be #1 and depth on D would be #2.
so pretty much nothing the Flames could really help with outside of sending Vandermeer your way to fill a spot for a couple years until the kids are ready and I don;t think Vandermeer is what you are looking for although his contract is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be as he is capable to play 2nd pairing minutes

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