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Old
06-20-2009, 08:02 PM
  #26
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
Bieksa + Grabner for Kessel and Sturm (Someone proposed on CDC), what you think? We take on your salary and you get a decent defenseman back as well as a good prospect.
You would at least have to include your first round pick. Likely more.

EDIT: Certainly more. Much more actually.

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06-20-2009, 08:24 PM
  #27
JohnHodgson
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Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
You would at least have to include your first round pick. Likely more.

EDIT: Certainly more. Much more actually.
I think if we added a first round pick it would be fair, but much more?

Bieksa is a 40 point defenseman with 2 more years on his contract left at a decent price. Kessel on the other hand is a restricted free agent and may ask up to 5 M. Grabner is a decent prospect and has the potential to score 30 goals, Sturm on the other hand is 30 and pending if he can bounce back or not, his contract isn't looking too good either.

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Old
06-20-2009, 08:31 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
I think if we added a first round pick it would be fair, but much more?

Bieksa is a 40 point defenseman with 2 more years on his contract left at a decent price. Kessel on the other hand is a restricted free agent and may ask up to 5 M. Grabner is a decent prospect and has the potential to score 30 goals, Sturm on the other hand is 30 and pending if he can bounce back or not, his contract isn't looking too good either.
I don't see many Bruins fans... Or any fans complaining about that contract of Sturms.

Kessel isn't going cheap.

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06-20-2009, 08:43 PM
  #29
Bruwinz37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
I think if we added a first round pick it would be fair, but much more?

Bieksa is a 40 point defenseman with 2 more years on his contract left at a decent price. Kessel on the other hand is a restricted free agent and may ask up to 5 M. Grabner is a decent prospect and has the potential to score 30 goals, Sturm on the other hand is 30 and pending if he can bounce back or not, his contract isn't looking too good either.
I guess you could say I am lukewarm at best on Grabner. I havent seen him much, but his stats are unimpressive to say the least.

I like Bieksa, but we are handing over close to 70 goals. At least the first and likely something else.

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06-20-2009, 08:57 PM
  #30
JohnHodgson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
I guess you could say I am lukewarm at best on Grabner. I havent seen him much, but his stats are unimpressive to say the least.

I like Bieksa, but we are handing over close to 70 goals. At least the first and likely something else.
You guys were the second best team in the NHL, WITHOUT Sturm for a large portion of the season. What if he can't bounce back?

Hm...

What if we changed Sturm to Kobasew?

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Old
06-20-2009, 08:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
You guys were the second best team in the NHL, WITHOUT Sturm for a large portion of the season. What if he can't bounce back?

Hm...

What if we changed Sturm to Kobasew?
There's no reason for Boston to add anything.

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06-20-2009, 09:05 PM
  #32
JohnHodgson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruwinz37 View Post
I guess you could say I am lukewarm at best on Grabner. I havent seen him much, but his stats are unimpressive to say the least.

I like Bieksa, but we are handing over close to 70 goals. At least the first and likely something else.
Grabner's stats aren't impressive? Scored 30 goals in 66 games, and near point per game in the playoffs. Ranked 13th on the list in AHL, with ONLY 66 games. In his second year of AHL he's 13th in goals in the entire AHL without even playing a whole season. Scored 10 goals in 20 games in the playoffs.

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Old
06-20-2009, 09:06 PM
  #33
JohnHodgson
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
There's no reason for Boston to add anything.

Than what's the point of doing the trade from Boston's perspective? They're looking to shred salary that might as well dump a player on us?

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Old
06-20-2009, 09:22 PM
  #34
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A no Starter! Never GM would waste their time on a Deal such as this, rework your deal, must be more to it for both teams, for the V's or the B's to be trading partners, and that doesn't mean more players into the trade either. Less would be better.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:13 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
Than what's the point of doing the trade from Boston's perspective? They're looking to shred salary that might as well dump a player on us?
The point of doing the trade is to shed Phil Kessel's salary IF he were to ask for $5 million per and fill a need with Kevin Bieksa. They are not just going to "throw in" a player like Sturm. There are not many 30 goal scorers in the NHL (that have hit Unrestricted Free Agency) that only get paid $3.5 million per.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:49 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LordLucic View Post
The point of doing the trade is to shed Phil Kessel's salary IF he were to ask for $5 million per and fill a need with Kevin Bieksa. They are not just going to "throw in" a player like Sturm. There are not many 30 goal scorers in the NHL (that have hit Unrestricted Free Agency) that only get paid $3.5 million per.
FYI, Marco Sturm has never scored 30 goals in a season. But hey, 27's close enough. I doubt he'll get anywhere near that if he is staying. When he scored 27 goals, that was before the emergence of Lucic, Wheeler, Kessel, Krejci and Ryder. Couple years ago he would be playing on the first line with Savard, now his ice time will significantly decrease.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:54 PM
  #37
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As far as I'm concerned, Sturm isn't being moved. He has a NMC and I personally don't see him waiving it. I'm not good with trade talk since I don't feel as if I know enough about these players (well aside from Boston players) to truly compare them in value so I shouldn't really say. I could see Kessel going for Bieksa and something else but I don't see the Bruins really adding anybody else. Like I posted earlier, if Kessel is traded Boston can resign Recchi and still roll 3 solid scoring lines with at least 60 goals on each line. I don't think they need to trade for another forward so maybe a prospect or pick could come back along with Bieksa.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:10 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
FYI, Marco Sturm has never scored 30 goals in a season. But hey, 27's close enough. I doubt he'll get anywhere near that if he is staying. When he scored 27 goals, that was before the emergence of Lucic, Wheeler, Kessel, Krejci and Ryder. Couple years ago he would be playing on the first line with Savard, now his ice time will significantly decrease.
Okay your right he hasn't scored 30 but he is good for 25-27 goals when healthy and I expect him to be fully healthy next year.

But its clear you have no idea how the Bruins team is run, so you may just no want to talk like you do. If on the Bruins he will most likely (about a 90% chance) be playing with Patrice Bergeron on the "3rd line" which was the line Claude Julien relied on about as much as the "1st line" (Lucic-Savard-Kessel). His ice time won't go down at all. Also, a couple of years ago he also played with Patrice Bergeron, not Marc Savard. So there goes that myth.

If you want Kessel you have to pay up. The Bruins aren't throwing in extras unless a better player is coming back and in any of these deals that is not the case.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:54 AM
  #39
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Why not keep it simple, with something like Kessel for Bieksa and Raymond (get him to add some muscle)?

B's can then move one of or both of Ward and Ference to free up more money...

Lucic-Savard-Ryder
Sturm-Krecji-Wheeler
Raymond-Bergeron-Kobasew

not bad...

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:19 AM
  #40
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If we wanted Kessel we'd have to send them some cheap talent. I think Hodgson would be the starting point. Boston wants affordable talent, and Kessel is a great player.

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:32 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kesler View Post
If we wanted Kessel we'd have to send them some cheap talent. I think Hodgson would be the starting point. Boston wants affordable talent, and Kessel is a great player.
Vancouver will keep their cheap, incredibly bright prospect instead of trading for a 4-5 million dollar player that may cost them any chance at landing Bouwmeester.

I can see Bieksa being moved as the centerpiece for Kessel if Bouw is signed, but not Hodgson. We need him too much.

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:43 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Vancouver will keep their cheap, incredibly bright prospect instead of trading for a 4-5 million dollar player that may cost them any chance at landing Bouwmeester.

I can see Bieksa being moved as the centerpiece for Kessel if Bouw is signed, but not Hodgson. We need him too much.
They have cap problems. Why would they move Kessel for a max 1.25 mill cap savings? Bieksa's a great D-man but boston has a great D. If they move Kessel it's for a great prospect who can give them some cheap value in the next few years.

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:57 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kesler View Post
They have cap problems. Why would they move Kessel for a max 1.25 mill cap savings? Bieksa's a great D-man but boston has a great D. If they move Kessel it's for a great prospect who can give them some cheap value in the next few years.
Because Bieksa is relatively cheap for what he does and 1.25 million cap savings is a lot when you only have 6 million to spend on a top 4 D man, top 6 RW and backup goalie.

Every team is going to have cap troubles and it's not even a choice between Bouwmeester or any other decent UFA + Hodgson vs. Kessel.

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Old
06-21-2009, 03:04 AM
  #44
Spamhuis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Because Bieksa is relatively cheap for what he does and 1.25 million cap savings is a lot when you only have 6 million to spend on a top 4 D man, top 6 RW and backup goalie.

Every team is going to have cap troubles and it's not even a choice between Bouwmeester or any other decent UFA + Hodgson vs. Kessel.
What makes you think that what's best for Vancouver is best for Boston? We want Kessel but Canucks dont have what Boston needs. The only way Kessel gets dealt is if it returns at least a top 10 pick + prospect, otherwise they'll take a 5 mill RFA offer and run...

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Old
06-21-2009, 03:36 AM
  #45
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Kesler View Post
What makes you think that what's best for Vancouver is best for Boston? We want Kessel but Canucks dont have what Boston needs. The only way Kessel gets dealt is if it returns at least a top 10 pick + prospect, otherwise they'll take a 5 mill RFA offer and run...
I honestly don't know wether or not Boston could really use him. There hasn't been much feedback from boston fans over the idea of getting bieksa in a trade, but so far it has been pretty positive:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krejci46 View Post
YES! Send Bieksa over ASAP please. I figure he isn't actually available though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
Tough, can pass, has a decent shot... YEs please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunwinz37
I think you will find Bieksa to be a big time favorite on the Bruins board....I am certainly a fan of his. Vancouver would have to add a bit more to make it a fair deal, but yes...I do think Bieksa fills a need for us.
If we don't get Kessel, that's fine. I'm more than happy with just re-signing the sedins and with any luck hopefully nabbing one of Bouwmeester, Scotty Neids or Marian Gaborik. Kessel, although extremely talented, is not a player I'd move one of the top prospects* in the league for, simply because Vancouver's prospect pool is so thin and probably won't be seeing another high 1st rounder for awhile, meaning it might be a bit of a wait until we can replenish the pool with high end prospects.

*Based off the THN ranking which had him at 2nd behind Filatov. Don't jump on me saying ____ is way better than CoHo.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:26 AM
  #46
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is it me or are some of the proposals on this board just getting silly?

Don't know how Raymond's 11 goals has catapolted him into elite status--but it is jst all goals and trading players rights--espcially when they are ufa and everyone knows that they are not going back to Vancouver is worthless

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:06 AM
  #47
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So Boston trades their best goal scorer, who happens to be 21 years old, AND a speedy 20 goal 3rd liner and gets back a bunch of stuff they can't use and they don't address any of their actual needs.

Sanford has no value to us unless its to replace Rask in Providence. Boston wouldn't be able to find a spot for Hansen, so he'd be the 13th FWD. Ohlund is a shadow of his former self.

This is just a total no go from Boston.

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:08 AM
  #48
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Doesn't Boston want to keep there sniper? Wouldn't the more cost cutting be around possibly Patrice Bergeron. Would a Patrice Bergeron for Bieksa and a conditional pick ranging from 1st to 3rd depending on Bergeron's stats with the Canucks be enough of a savings for Boston to re-sign Kessel to his raise.

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06-21-2009, 08:10 AM
  #49
Dr Quincy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
FYI, Marco Sturm has never scored 30 goals in a season. But hey, 27's close enough. I doubt he'll get anywhere near that if he is staying. When he scored 27 goals, that was before the emergence of Lucic, Wheeler, Kessel, Krejci and Ryder. Couple years ago he would be playing on the first line with Savard, now his ice time will significantly decrease.
Kessel and Ryder are RWs and takes no ice time from Sturm. Wheeler played LW last season mostly, but is better at RW as well. Lucic doesn't get much PP time. Sturm would get the most or close to it, ice time in 5 on 5 situations of all the LWs, and the most PP time, and likely the most PK time.

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:18 AM
  #50
Dr Quincy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM- View Post
Doesn't Boston want to keep there sniper? Wouldn't the more cost cutting be around possibly Patrice Bergeron. Would a Patrice Bergeron for Bieksa and a conditional pick ranging from 1st to 3rd depending on Bergeron's stats with the Canucks be enough of a savings for Boston to re-sign Kessel to his raise.
There is a feeling in the media and among most of the Bruins fans here, that Kessel is not a "complete" player and that he really isn't a "Bruins" type. They feel that his goal scoring can be replaced or at least somewhat replaced by having 3 well-balanced scoring lines. Something like:

Lucic-Savard-Wheeler
Sturm-Bergeron-Kobasew
Recchi-Krejci-Ryder

By trading Phil these Bruins fans feel that we can obtain a top notch young dman (Weber, Burns, Suter, Pieterangelo + something else, etc).

Now if you ask me, these fans are 1) underestimating Phil's value to the Bruins and how much the O will suffer and 2) overestimating his worth to other teams.

Kessel will not land a top 2 under 25 years old established dman. I'd rather keep him and try shaving some salary by trading Kobasew, Ward, Ferrence, Sturm for picks or lower salaried players.

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