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Old
06-20-2009, 02:20 PM
  #1
DeeMeck
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Knee-jerk reaction from DL supporter

I have alwasy been one of the biggest DL supporters on here. I didn't like the area about the pioneering too much, rest was pretty much ho-hum.

I'd rather have one Cup and 5 years of cap issues (Last I checked, teams in this situation still seem to find a way to get it done).

I think we still need a Heatley or Vinny type to get the job done regardless of whether we do it via trade, or FA (Gaborik).

He likes to use Detroit as a reference point for a good organization...sure, they lost Quincey because of cap issues, but they always find a way to sign a Rafalski or Hossa, or trade for a Stuart and continue to win Cups. Sometimes the axe has to fall on a good young guy to keep moving forward.

In conclusion.

1. You have teams that are cap strapped every year but at least they give themselves a chance to win.

2. Then you have us...we are pioneering a new way of management...and Lombardi is gun shy because the cap MIGHT fall in the next couple years (I can't stress enough how absolutely hate this). You need to stop projecting how everything is going to look 3-5 years in the future and get us an impact player Dean. How are you going to look if the cap doesn't drop?

3. Yes, you are doing a good job of managing. What's the point of managing if you aren't giving yourself your very best chance to win.

WE'RE JUST GONNA HOLD OFF ON AN IMPACT PLAYER BECAUSE THE CAP MIGHT DROP IN 2 YEARS WAS NOT THE RIGHT ANSWER.


Hopefully, I'm not too far offbase here...but I'm pretty disappointed.

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06-20-2009, 02:40 PM
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And before I get jumped on by the stay the course people. Believe me, I am one of those people. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get these guys because it didn't work out because we have to overpay asset wise.

People were very wrong about the cap getting to 56 million plus so fast. It is near impossible to predict what the cap is going to be.

Just projecting a decrease in the cap in the next couple years and using it as your excuse to not improve the team is what got to me.

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06-20-2009, 02:44 PM
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I think Dean has had the same philosophy since day 1. Build from within. He has continued to stay the course. Every year a bunch of people fall for the "Eklund" hype and end up disappointed and bashing Deano. I like the course he is going. Dont give up the #5 unless we are getting a signed Kovalchuk. Fiscal responsibility. Only pay when we are a winner which we still are not.

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06-20-2009, 02:52 PM
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Mr Irreverent
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Teams like Detroit and currently Chicago took well over 5-7 years to rebuild. Patience grasshoppa.

I'd rather have a team full of Hudler's, Kopecky's, Filpulla's, etc than have a 1-2 line team.

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06-20-2009, 02:54 PM
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KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
And before I get jumped on by the stay the course people. Believe me, I am one of those people. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get these guys because it didn't work out because we have to overpay asset wise.

People were very wrong about the cap getting to 56 million plus so fast. It is near impossible to predict what the cap is going to be.

Just projecting a decrease in the cap in the next couple years and using it as your excuse to not improve the team is what got to me.
I can see your frustration, but I think all he did today was re-issue his challenge to the youngsters to get better in every way.

Notice that Hextall said they need another top six. They didn't rule out Gaborik. That doesn't mean he is coming, but they haven't ruled him out.

The #5 is staying unless we are getting something very good, and also young in return.

The focus is on improving the front end this off season. I think it is still very possible that we see the #5 in play, but more likely one or two of our young defensemen to pick up a young foward, preferably a center.

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06-20-2009, 03:03 PM
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DeeMeck
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5-7 year rebuilds don't work anymore. These guys are gonna be UFA's quicker than you think.

The window is so much smaller nowadays. The free agency list is going to grow by alot every year due to the new CBA.

Toews, Stamkos, Doughty...all UFA's at 25.

You just don't have control of the players that long anymore. We have a couple years with all these guys before Quincey, Zus, Stoll, Williams....then just another year or 2 after that when the next wave of free agents come.

Now we will be able to re-sign a few, but definitely not all...you just can't afford to drag your feet anymore like you could when you had players into their late 20's.

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06-20-2009, 03:10 PM
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I liked what he said. None of those teams built solely by signing free agents and trading away all their assets in trades. Most were built by having some tough years, developing a core through the draft, keeping it together, rebounding, and then making moves here and there to keep the ship afloat. By then, if you find yourself as a constant contender, then you end up as a Detroit where you can convince players to come for a cut in pay or sign ridiculous deals to reduce the cap hit...

In the end, I like what was said. He echoed my own sentiments that acquiring someone like Lecavalier is not financially viable. I am very happy that there are no panic buttons being pushed. Everyone called out that we needed Drury or Gomez and now their team is desperately trying to get rid of them. These deals just make little sense, and even though it gets some of these teams into the playoffs, nearly all of them are failing and then entering into significant hardships.

If we walk away from this draft with either Kane, MSP, or Schenn and then sign someone like Gaborik or even Sturm on a reasonable short-term deal, I will be very happy with this off-season and look intently forward to training camp.

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Old
06-20-2009, 03:13 PM
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DeeMeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I can see your frustration, but I think all he did today was re-issue his challenge to the youngsters to get better in every way.

Notice that Hextall said they need another top six. They didn't rule out Gaborik. That doesn't mean he is coming, but they haven't ruled him out.

The #5 is staying unless we are getting something very good, and also young in return.

The focus is on improving the front end this off season. I think it is still very possible that we see the #5 in play, but more likely one or two of our young defensemen to pick up a young foward, preferably a center.
I agree...our players need to take that next step...but when I look around the league at the young guys who really broke out this year Richards, Carter, Krejci, Malkin, Toews, Kane, Parise...the only difference skill-wise that I see between them and our guys is that their teams are better due to bringing in impact players as well.

Their teams successes were good because the young guys got better, but the players those teams brought in also contributed to the teams, AND their individual successes. Those break-out guys didn't do it on their own.

Our team needs to learn how to win plain and simple. Teams take their lumps in the playoffs for the most part for a couple seasons before a big run. We just really seem to be dragging our feet. By the time we learn to win guys are gonna have one foot out the door.

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06-20-2009, 03:14 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
5-7 year rebuilds don't work anymore. These guys are gonna be UFA's quicker than you think.

The window is so much smaller nowadays. The free agency list is going to grow by alot every year due to the new CBA.

Toews, Stamkos, Doughty...all UFA's at 25.

You just don't have control of the players that long anymore. We have a couple years with all these guys before Quincey, Zus, Stoll, Williams....then just another year or 2 after that when the next wave of free agents come.

Now we will be able to re-sign a few, but definitely not all...you just can't afford to drag your feet anymore like you could when you had players into their late 20's.
I don't see it that way. If a team signs the right guys to reasonble deals it can be done.

Of the guys you mentioned maybe they keep one or two, depending on which one offers the most bang for the buck. You know that Lombardi is counting on havnig a cheap replacement from within for Handzus in two years.

I could easily see Quincey as trade bait this summer for a young forward, could be someone else though.

Stoll and Williams are guys I think Lombardi sees as keepers, but he isn't going to open the vault up for either one of them.

I'm looking forward to the draft, because I have a feeling that pick might be our future #2 center.

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06-20-2009, 03:18 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
If we walk away from this draft with either Kane, MSP, or Schenn and then sign someone like Gaborik or even Sturm on a reasonable short-term deal, I will be very happy with this off-season and look intently forward to training camp.
This.

I don't think we need a VLC or Heatley. Yes, it would be nice but we have our own players that want to shine just as much as they do. I guess if they were UFAs it would a different answer, but they aren't. Those teams are going to want some of our top players back and that doesn't make me happy. We are the Kings, we want to build our own players and not trade half our roster for a Heatley type. I'm on board with what Dean is doing, I believe he is doing the right thing.



You have to support Dean, Terry and the rest of the organization in what they are trying to do. If you don't, you shouldn't be a Kings fan. That's how I look at it anyways.


The players need to win, it's that hard. They can do it, they showed they can but its about being consistent. I'm not jumping off the wagon just yet. I see bound of potential when I watch the Kings. But, it makes me so annoyed they aren't showing it. I still have the patience for them and will for awhile.

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06-20-2009, 03:37 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
If we walk away from this draft with either Kane, MSP, or Schenn and then sign someone like Gaborik or even Sturm on a reasonable short-term deal, I will be very happy with this off-season and look intently forward to training camp.
i don't know how any of you could walk away satisfied with sturm as the marquee FA, Wow career-high 56pts. Better start planing the parade

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06-20-2009, 03:44 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
i don't know how any of you could walk away satisfied with sturm as the marquee FA, Wow career-high 56pts. Better start planing the parade
It is because we already have players like Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Doughty, Williams, etc etc... All of these players should be stepping up and we should be getting more out of them. Kopitar alone should be good enough for another 20 points. We also have a good group of youngsters in waiting like Purcell, Moller, Lewis, and Boyle who just may surprise us and nab a slot in the top 6.

We have five top-6 forwards excluding prospects. I don't see an overwhelming need to nab a financially devastating superstar for the final spot, especially when we are drafting another high-end forward prospect in a couple of days. The 5 we have now should be able to get the job done, or at least do a much better job than they did last year...

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06-20-2009, 03:47 PM
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i'm just saying why spend the money on a little d-bag like Sturm wen you might get the same production out of Simmonds/Moller

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06-20-2009, 03:52 PM
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Telos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
i'm just saying why spend the money on a little d-bag like Sturm wen you might get the same production out of Simmonds/Moller
That is a valid point and I don't disagree, but I think they are looking to add another established piece at least so they don't have to rely on the youngsters. The only spot I see open as of now is the second line left wing position. I have:

Frolov-Kopitar-Williams/Brown
???-Stoll-Brown/Williams

Some people disagree that Stoll is a second line center, but he has proven himself and was still recovering from injury. I think he deserves another year like Handzus did and I believe he has the talent to succeed. It is as Dean mentioned... He is a shooter so they are looking for a winger that can do both shooting and playmaking. I am not sure any of our youngsters can fulfill those needs unless our #5 pick miraculously makes the team and wins the Calder Either way, I won't be too depressed if Purcell or Moller were thrown in that spot. Those top 5 players should have enough to get the job done regardless of who is in that left wing slot...

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06-20-2009, 03:52 PM
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DeeMeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
It is because we already have players like Kopitar, Brown, Frolov, Doughty, Williams, etc etc... All of these players should be stepping up and we should be getting more out of them. Kopitar alone should be good enough for another 20 points. We also have a good group of youngsters in waiting like Purcell, Moller, Lewis, and Boyle who just may surprise us and nab a slot in the top 6.

We have five top-6 forwards excluding prospects. I don't see an overwhelming need to nab a financially devastating superstar for the final spot, especially when we are drafting another high-end forward prospect in a couple of days. The 5 we have now should be able to get the job done, or at least do a much better job than they did last year...
They are going to have to do a much much better job. I like Stoll..but he is not top 6 on most competing teams.

Top 6 is thrown around alot...but we have alot of guys who are at the bottom end of a top 6. Frolov and Kopitar are MAYBE top line guys on the good teams around the league, but they do have the potential to get there in the right situation.

What we have are complimentary top 6 forward guys. Defenseman are classified 1 thru 4 pretty much. Forwards are just generalized. I know we have lot of top 6 forwards...but they really are in the 3-6 range. We need a legit #1 forward. Kopitar and frolov are closest...but not there.

Look at the good teams in the league. Our very best forwards may crack the top line on only a couple of them.

And this showed last year when we couldn't score goals. We will have the same struggles next year without a top-flite #1 forward.

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06-20-2009, 03:58 PM
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exactley

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06-20-2009, 03:58 PM
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Another thing...some of these 30 goal scorers around the league only score 30 goals because they play with a true #1 forward.

You line up Gaborik or someone with williams or Frolov and those guys might score 40. They aren't going to score 40 without someone around to take the pressure off. They aren't good enough.

Cammi did very well with Iginla. Perry with Getzlaf...these guys don't sniff their numbers last season without playing with that true #1 forward. Didn't Willsie score 20 something with Ovy?

These #1 forwards make the players around them better, and here we are without a #1 or #2 forward...just a bunch of 3-6 guys.

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06-20-2009, 04:01 PM
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another great point

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06-20-2009, 04:22 PM
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KINGS17
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
i'm just saying why spend the money on a little d-bag like Sturm wen you might get the same production out of Simmonds/Moller
A d-bag like Sturm? Yeah, those 20-25 goal scorers that can shut down another teams top wingers aren't worth much.

I still think it is important to note that Gaborik was not specifically ruled out, while others were.

I'm not saying we'll get him. If he gets an $8M/year, 6 year offer from another team he won't be coming here.

How many teams can legitimately make an offer like that, either due to cap problems or financial problems?

The Kings are one of the few teams that have the resources to sign Gaborik this summer.


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06-20-2009, 04:43 PM
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Mr Irreverent
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
i'm just saying why spend the money on a little d-bag like Sturm wen you might get the same production out of Simmonds/Moller
Because neither of them play LW.

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06-20-2009, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
5-7 year rebuilds don't work anymore. These guys are gonna be UFA's quicker than you think.

The window is so much smaller nowadays. The free agency list is going to grow by alot every year due to the new CBA.

Toews, Stamkos, Doughty...all UFA's at 25.

You just don't have control of the players that long anymore. We have a couple years with all these guys before Quincey, Zus, Stoll, Williams....then just another year or 2 after that when the next wave of free agents come.

Now we will be able to re-sign a few, but definitely not all...you just can't afford to drag your feet anymore like you could when you had players into their late 20's.
it's comletly true what you say and i've never senn you posting this disappointed.
But all of the teams are in that position not just the kings.
It's not that there are 3 teams who say... let's wait for the Kings players.
The Player will have to think twice to change to another Team at UFA age.
Sure, in a position like Atlanta is, where absolute nothing happens the players gets frustrated.
But I can see the Kings getting better and better....
there will be just a handfull of teams who can afford Kings Players and they will be much more worse then we are.........

just watch Hossa at Detroit... he will give a huge credit.. just to stay in Detroit..
I like what Deano is doing.... and hope he keeps going that way...

I really love when i see, that other teams have to give Lecavaliers or Brieres for almost free because they tryed to do much more than they were able to do...

best time to be a Kings fan...

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06-20-2009, 05:19 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
And before I get jumped on by the stay the course people. Believe me, I am one of those people. I wouldn't mind if we didn't get these guys because it didn't work out because we have to overpay asset wise.

People were very wrong about the cap getting to 56 million plus so fast. It is near impossible to predict what the cap is going to be.

Just projecting a decrease in the cap in the next couple years and using it as your excuse to not improve the team is what got to me.
That is my take as well, and while I am all for building through the draft, what good is cap space if you dont use it.

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06-20-2009, 05:26 PM
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You know, so many of us have been disappointed by when in the recent past DL has failed to land the big UFA. But I look back and notice how every single one of these UFAs, the teams that did sign them are now trying to trade those same contracts to us?

Briere, Drury, Gomez, Campbell and even Blake. All of these guys are salary anchors and overpaid for what they do. And imagine if DL was going to beat those teams out, he would have had to offer even more! And look at the teams that got those guys. Did they win one Cup? They didn't even make the finals and for those were in the playoffs like Chicago, did the UFA make that big of a deal in their run? Blake is my favorite player but I have to be real here, look at how San Jose did.

Stay the course and if any special player with a special interest in LA wants to come, like Hossa did with Detroit, then let it happen. It's obviously unlikely as we aren't Detroit and we aren't even Pittsburgh. But look at both of those teams. Nearly all of the best players on both teams came from within their own systems. And all of the players play together for years. We have a lot of that going right now. We shed a few mercs like Cammelleri and we kept the character guys like Brown and Kopitar. And when we keep getting the 19 year olds making the team like Doughty, Simmonds and Moller along with other gems like Loktionov coming out in later rounds, that part of the system is certainly working.

If anything, maybe we should be trading up to get a more NHL-ready prospect like Hedman or Duchene. Or we can keep our million top-caliber defensemen prospects and trade them for key holes we have come playoff time. And once we have a modicum of playoff success (the first success would be to actually make it!) then maybe, maybe the good UFAs will come here.

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06-20-2009, 05:30 PM
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A d-bag like Sturm? Yeah, those 20-25 goal scorers that can shut down another teams top wingers aren't worth much.

I still think it is important to note that Gaborik was not specifically ruled out, while others were.

I'm not saying we'll get him. If he gets an $8M/year, 6 year offer from another team he won't be coming here.

How many teams can legitimately make an offer like that, either due to cap problems or financial problems?

The Kings are one of the few teams that have the resources to sign Gaborik this summer.
About half of the NHL.

Something you are not considering Kings17....A lot of teams have lost players due to free agency as well...they have a lot more payroll room than you may think.....also a team could acquire Gaborik and be over the cap and then trade off another player for a draft pick.....the teams that want to get better will find a way....and the Kings will continue to be looking for top 10 picks in the draft.

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Old
06-20-2009, 05:51 PM
  #25
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Is there anywhere to hear what he said? Or was it an in person type thing? Id love to hear what was said during the breakfast

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