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Old
06-22-2009, 01:18 AM
  #51
EvilCorporateLawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
Boom Kadri!
I wouldn't be against him, but I'd much rather see us draft a legit goal scorer. This team does not have a single elite goal scoring prospect in the entire pool.

Grachev is close, but he's only one. And I see him more as a 30-35 goal scorer than a 40+ goal scorer.

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:24 AM
  #52
Stepan Razor
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if there is demand from other teams for the BPA at 19, you trade the pick without a doubt. our farm system just got decimated by the death of our best prospect and we need to build it back up.

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
I think it's funny that Clark said this isn't an extremely deep draft. That's all people around here have been spewing.

People have been claiming that 2nd's are as good as 1st's because this draft is sooo deep. Give me a break. Dopes.
I've been saying it for how long now? Clark comes out and says it and people like Jonathan are STILL denying it, unreal....

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Old
06-22-2009, 11:14 AM
  #54
nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringUpBobby View Post
if there is demand from other teams for the BPA at 19, you trade the pick without a doubt. our farm system just got decimated by the death of our best prospect and we need to build it back up.
I wouldn't say it was decimated. Losing Cherepanov hurt for sure, but we still have a solid system.

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Old
06-22-2009, 11:38 AM
  #55
GWOW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
That's what we did for the two previous drafts prior to last years.

We have enough 3rd liners.

We don't have enough high end prospects.

We need to draft for boom. Not for the 3rd line.

It's why I don't understand why some of you guys are all on the Klingberg train. Or the Nattinen train. Two players that will never, ever be impact players in the NHL.


The Rangers are drafting at 19. No matter who they draft, that kid will be in the NCAA or CHL or Europe for 2-3 years and Hartford for another 1-2. By the time he gets a crack at the NHL, he'll debut on the 3rd or 4th line and given an opportunity to develop into a top-6.

There's not a single guy in our range who will be in the NHL before he hits 21. The Rangers can say all they want about drafting "impact players" but we'll never know until he's in his early 20's.

I just want them to avoid guys with a "lazy" tag. Hence the desire to get "character" guys.

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Old
06-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #56
Stepan Razor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I wouldn't say it was decimated. Losing Cherepanov hurt for sure, but we still have a solid system.
i should have said our W situation was decimated, we're strong at D and adequate at center

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Old
06-22-2009, 03:30 PM
  #57
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I would trade the first for a sniper, lol........no really I would, they need one baaaaaaaad

if they can clear Rozies salary it has to be considered

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Old
06-22-2009, 03:35 PM
  #58
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...pects_for2009/

I would like to trade back for a bunch of thirds and pick up some of these Russian Prospects.

Maybe we could come up with another couple of Grachevs

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:37 PM
  #59
gravytrain6t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
The Rangers are drafting at 19. No matter who they draft, that kid will be in the NCAA or CHL or Europe for 2-3 years and Hartford for another 1-2. By the time he gets a crack at the NHL, he'll debut on the 3rd or 4th line and given an opportunity to develop into a top-6.[/B]

There's not a single guy in our range who will be in the NHL before he hits 21. The Rangers can say all they want about drafting "impact players" but we'll never know until he's in his early 20's.

I just want them to avoid guys with a "lazy" tag. Hence the desire to get "character" guys.
Right, there's nothing wrong with this. How many players weren't even selected in the first round and became top 6 forwards. Real good players like Mark Recchi, Petr Bondra, Sergei Fedorov, Steve Larmer, Adam Oates, Martin St. Louis and Dino Cicarelli were not even drafted, John Leclair, Adam Graves, Mark Messier, Jari Kurri, Henrik Zetterberg, Joe Nieuwendyk, Doug Weight, Tony Amonte, Bernie Nichols, Chris Versteeg, Doug Gilmour, Rick Tocchet, Cliff Ronning, Luc Robitaille, Brett Hull ....etc...etc

Those 20 or so guys i listed are not enough to make up the tip of an "iceberg." And remember, (not just these guys) all of these players weren't selected in the first round. Most of these players I selected specifically because everyone knows them and they're well proven. Versteeg was drafted in the later rounds and is young but looks to be a rising star.

Some people argue that the draft is really nothing more than a "crap shoot." Others will argue that drafting takes great scouting.

IMO, it's a combination of both. Not unless it's Crosby, Lemieux or Malkin. Everyone knows to draft these guys.

But when management has a system (a blue print) in place, the 3rd to the last round could prove just as important to that team, as the first two rounds. Examples are teams like the Flyers of the 70s. Snyder had a plan. The plan was to grab a few star players (Barber, Parent, Clarke) and then he wanted his scouts to find big guys not just to fight, but to wear teams down through hard nosed fore checking and always taking the body. They weren't just about "dropping the gloves, and brawling," but like Clarke quoted: "We were a team lead by Fred Shero, who demanded that we hunt down the puck and hit hard. Always make someone pay. We played a style where we competed for 60 minutes at high intensity."

So the Flyers won two Stanley Cups and 4 conference championship and the Bruins and the Rangers at the time were filled with hall of famers (Gilbert, Park, Giacomin, Ratelle, Espo, Bucyk, Orr, Cheevers...) and the Rangers won nothing. The Bruins did win two Cups (how could they not with Orr and Espo) but they would have won more if not for the Flyers.

Bill Torrey of the Islanders had a plan which consisted of not signing any veteran players to try and win right away. He ripped the team apart and started from scratch. He was 100% committed to building a team through the draft. And one of Torrey's key scouts was none other than the man who built his own dynasty in Detroit (Jim Devellano). Devellano was named the Islanders Head Director of Scouting and then promoted to Assistant General Manager before taking the job with the Red Wings as Senior Vice President. Of course even if it was indirect, he probably isn't a big Don Cherry fan, as he sent his scouts over to Russia and (mostly) Sweden to build Stanley Cup winners with not only European players, but 2 European Captains. One from each respective country (Fedorov and Lidstrom).

And I guess Sather should retire about now. A long time ago he and his scouts were also committed to drafting well (especially in the later rounds) and there went the Oilers to go on and win 5 Cups. Peter Pocklington also gets lots of credit for those Cup teams. After all. He signed the "Great One" from the WHA. We have the new and less improved Glenn Sather who I'm certainly starting to distrust. I'll come to my conclusion at the end of September.

But all of these guy's used the draft to build their teams. And did not neglect a single round. We had a great G.M. in Emile Francis. He had his own system but we never were able to win one Cup. To me, the draft is so much more than trying to trade up to the top 1-12 overall picks. If it makes sense, than do it. But instead of looking for the most skilled player's possible, and just because you hear names like Taveres, Duchene and Hedman, doesn't mean you can't have very succesful draft round.

It shouldn't be about selecting a player within the context of how he will personally succeed in the NHL as being a member of the Rangers. But with good scouting (lots of it) and management, it's more about finding that particular player out of a few players, (in each round) who fits the original prototype included in the architecual frame work for which the President, Vice President, G.M. and assistant G.M. have strategically thought out and want to move forward with. Not just in the short term. But representative of the entire organization's future, to where the Rangers have become a "model organization," and not just a team who, from year to year tries to bring in high priced talent to win a Stanley Cup and it never happens.

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Old
06-22-2009, 11:16 PM
  #60
NY Ranger86
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serious questions here***
please help me.

Why can't we draft someone who is NHL ready as soon as he's drafted(Stamkos for example)... the obvious answer is "Stamkos was a top pick" (just using Stamkos as an example) but seriously... even at pick 19, we can't get someone whos ready NOW..not 4 years down the road will try out for the 4th line....

someone help here..

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Old
06-23-2009, 12:07 AM
  #61
gravytrain6t
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every pick who was drafted in the first round that wasn't picked at #1 was a fourth liner? No, not quite? It really seems like for the most part we have fan base obsessed with first overall picks as if that's the only way to win. Well then screw it. Lets tank it. Play the Checkers next season. We'll get a first overall pick and then the rest of the guys can come back in the 2010/2011 season. If that don't work go back to the drawing board and play the Checkers again. We should get a 1st over all pick in 2011. Bring back the Rangers again with our two over all picks and we should have a Cup contender at the 2011/2012 season. I'm hoping.


Last edited by gravytrain6t: 06-23-2009 at 12:17 AM.
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Old
06-23-2009, 12:43 AM
  #62
broadwayblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
serious questions here***
please help me.

Why can't we draft someone who is NHL ready as soon as he's drafted(Stamkos for example)... the obvious answer is "Stamkos was a top pick" (just using Stamkos as an example) but seriously... even at pick 19, we can't get someone whos ready NOW..not 4 years down the road will try out for the 4th line....

someone help here..
Because outside of a couple guys the majority of these kids are far from finished products at 18 or however old they are on draft day. And to rush them into the best league in the world where they will be playing with much stronger, more rounded players isn't ideal for their development. So like you say, unless you are drafting at the top it's unlikely your pick will be ready to step right in and contribute. And even then the top guys still have a lot to learn...it's just that they are generally further along...or at least some parts of their game are already at the point where playing with guys their own age won't present enough of a challenge for their continued development.

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Old
06-23-2009, 10:54 AM
  #63
Edge
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Generally speaking, a great draft is getting three kids who play in the NHL regularly.

It's really strong if two of those kids play regularly for the team that drafted them.

Hockey drafts, unlike many other pro sports drafts, are all about teenagers. Typically kids who are 17-19 years of age. Aside from skills and progression, there are many other factors that come into play. Personality and growth spurts being prime examples.

You draft some kids and they don't grow anymore, they just fill out.

You draft someone like Dubinsky and he goes from a 5'11, 185 "pesky forward" to a 6'1, 210 pound power forward. That took some adjustments. Other kids, like Jamie Lundmark, just don't seem to show the same drive they showed in their draft year.

All in all, a lot of things have to fall into place to even get an NHL'er. Finding one can step in so soon is even harder. It also becomes that team's reponsbility to get that kid enough ice time that he actually progresses. A hockey players pro career learning curve is a lot like the human life learning curve. Those first 2-3 years are often the most important.

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