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Patrick Eaves to Pittsburgh

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Old
06-20-2009, 05:14 AM
  #1
Fuzzy Bunny
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Patrick Eaves to Pittsburgh

Shero was part of drafting him in Ottawa. I remember hearing a while back that Shero had interest in Eaves before he was dealt to the Hurricanes.

I'm not sure if he has really made a spot in the Carolina roster, but it hasn't seemed like it? And his cap hit is quite low if he got swing into a top 6 role, or take over on the 3rd line if one of Talbot/Kennedy were forced to move up. He stunk this year so I assume could be had cheap?

So, what kind of deal could actually work?


CONTRACT REMAINING:
09/10- $1 400 000
10/11- $1 700 000

CAP HIT - $1 400 000

74gp 6g 8a 14pts


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06-20-2009, 05:19 AM
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Captain Hook
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Patrick Eaves? Why do we need him? Getting a player like him for the Pens is about the last thing on my mind.

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06-20-2009, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Patrick Eaves? Why do we need him? Getting a player like him for the Pens is about the last thing on my mind.
I know there is some redundancy and there is already Dupuis who has to get sent off already, but was just looking to see what value this guy holds now (can't be much) and being that Shero has a like for him might as well create some extra off-season discussion which is more plausible then a lot of the rumours and proposals that get tossed out there.

ADD- and his last 2 seasons have been ass (injured in 07-08) but he did find a way to pot 20 goals in 58 games in his rookie season of 05-06, a former 1st rnder (29th overall in 2003) with Sykora, and Satan gone... maybe Guerin, if the cap gets tight might be a guy to take a risk on.

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06-20-2009, 05:25 AM
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His value is probably a mid-round pick or something of the sort.

I'd rather the Hurricanes keep him if that's all they're going to get. His point totals were awful this season, but he really never got a chance and he's a really good defensive/PK guy.

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06-20-2009, 05:29 AM
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That came right out of left field....

What possible reason would we have to sign Eaves?

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06-20-2009, 05:56 AM
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I'd swap him for Dupuis and a low pick but that's about it.

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06-20-2009, 06:02 AM
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I'd swap him for Dupuis and a low pick but that's about it.
Why? They have the same cap-hit and Eaves would be a 4th liner for us too.

The name of the game for the Pens is that either you're good enough to contribute, or you're dirt cheap. Eaves is neither. Could come good down the line, sure, but there's absolutely no reason for the Pens going for him.

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06-20-2009, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Why? They have the same cap-hit and Eaves would be a 4th liner for us too.

The name of the game for the Pens is that either you're good enough to contribute, or you're dirt cheap. Eaves is neither. Could come good down the line, sure, but there's absolutely no reason for the Pens going for him.
I'd take a flier on him being able to live up to his potential, probably not a move Shero would make though

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06-20-2009, 06:38 AM
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put him on a Malkin's line & watch his stats skyrocket

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06-20-2009, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Why? They have the same cap-hit and Eaves would be a 4th liner for us too.

The name of the game for the Pens is that either you're good enough to contribute, or you're dirt cheap. Eaves is neither. Could come good down the line, sure, but there's absolutely no reason for the Pens going for him.
I'm not so sure about that. Put him with Malkin or Crosby and I bet he hits 20 goals again. He's a lot better of a hockey player than he showed last season.

Cam Ward said that Eaves has the best wrist shot on the Hurricanes. Most of the very few goals he scored this season were absolute snipes. The problem is that, due to his linemates and lack of icetime, he rarely got any scoring chances. This is reflected in his incredibly low shooting percentage (5.2%).

Eaves' two most common linemates at even strength this season were Brind'amour (250:01) and Bayda (159:08). Dupuis' were Crosby (421:13) and Malkin (211:26).

Eaves has already got the forechecking+defensive part of hockey down. He's a bit overpaid if he produces like he did this past season, but I'd hate to trade him for someone like Dupuis+low pick and watch his stats go way up.

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06-20-2009, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SenatorArmy View Post
put him on a Malkin's line & watch his stats skyrocket
That could be said for any player in the league.

Eaves does have Staal on his team in Carolina, though. I don't think he plays with him much and Staal is more of a goal scoring center than a playmaker like Geno. Geno could make him look a lot better. I just don't see the Pens trying to add 1.4 in salary right now, unless Guerin or Fedotenko leave in UFA. If that happens then this topic of trading a pick for a cheap borderline top 6 winger is more realistic.

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06-20-2009, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
That could be said for any player in the league.

Eaves does have Staal on his team in Carolina, though. I don't think he plays with him much and Staal is more of a goal scoring center than a playmaker like Geno. Geno could make him look a lot better. I just don't see the Pens trying to add 1.4 in salary right now, unless Guerin or Fedotenko leave in UFA. If that happens then this topic of trading a pick for a cheap borderline top 6 winger is more realistic.
You're correct that Staal/Eaves don't play together much. They only had 78:36 of ice time together last season. Eaves averaged 11:15/game, so that's about 7 full games.

His centers in terms of even strength ice time they spent togther (source: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/2008...player0338.php)

ROD BRIND'AMOUR 250:01
BRANDON SUTTER 128:17
MATT CULLEN 125:33
ERIC STAAL 78:36
JUSSI JOKINEN 75:30

I think a lack of production can be excused when your top two centers are Brind'amour (who had an absolute brutal year at even strength) and Sutter (19-year old rookie) and you receive no powerplay time.

LaRose is another guy who did basically nothing while rotting on the third/fourth lines here, then randomly exploded for 19 goals (all even strength or shorthanded) this past season while playing mostly with Cullen and Whitney. I wouldn't put it past Eaves to do the same thing if he's given the opportunity. The chances of Pascal Dupuis - who couldn't produce playing with Crosby and Malkin - doing the same are slim to none.

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06-20-2009, 07:52 AM
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I think that Eaves would be a really nice addition to the Pens. If Guerin retires, I could see a swift skater like Eaves take over the grinding role on the Crosby line. He has shown that he has some offensive potential: not many 20 year olds notch 20 goals in a season. Eaves is probably the type of guy who doesn't benefit from being outside of a hockey market in Carolina: He played at BU, in Ottawa, both hockey markets. Furthermore, of small note, wasn't Mike Eaves Crosby's coach at Shattuck Saint Mary's? Not that that is a deal-breaker or anything.

1.2 is an OK price for Eaves, if he could find a rythm on one of the top lines in Pitt. 1.4 is a little much, but justifiable for a year when taking a chance on his youth and potential.

If I am Pittsburgh, I'd throw a 3rd Round pick in 2010 for him. Why not.

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06-20-2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Put him with Malkin or Crosby and I bet he hits 20 goals again. He's a lot better of a hockey player than he showed last season.
He hit 20 goals in his first season on the back of shooting better than 20%.... Considering that he's been shooting app. 6 percent the past two years and both Ottawa and Carolina, well....

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Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
Eaves has already got the forechecking+defensive part of hockey down. He's a bit overpaid if he produces like he did this past season, but I'd hate to trade him for someone like Dupuis+low pick and watch his stats go way up.
I'm not saying the Hurricanes should make such a trade either. Surely not. Eaves has upside, Dupuis does not.
My point is that its not Pittsburgh who should make a deal like this. We have to get Dupuis out of there for whatever and sign two 4th line specialists for the same price. Not because he isn't a decent player, but for cap reasons.

We're the defending champions and ought to figure as a contender again. That's not a time to go out and make Eaves a gamble for the top 6 when he has shown NOTHING to warrant it over the past three years and only once graced such levels on the back of an unsustainable shooting percentage.
Again - we have a (for now) better player in Tyler Kennedy who cost half. We can upgrade him to top 6 instead if his play merits it and play Talbot on the third.

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06-20-2009, 08:41 AM
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Eaves is someone Craig Patrick would've traded for. A former first rounder in his mid-20's that has never done much, that's got CP written all over it.

"Patrick Eaves is a former first rounder and 20 goal scorer, we believe he can step in and contribute immediately."

Then he'd score in his first three games and fall off the face of the earth.

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06-20-2009, 09:04 AM
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not nessesary. . next please.

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06-20-2009, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
He hit 20 goals in his first season on the back of shooting better than 20%.... Considering that he's been shooting app. 6 percent the past two years and both Ottawa and Carolina, well....
He hit 14 goals and 32 points (while averaging 12:13/game) the next season with a 10.8 shooting %, so there's some scoring ability there even without an unsustainable shooting percentage.

Anybody who knows that 20% was likely to fall should know that 5.2% is likely to rise. You can pretty much throw out the 07-08 season as Eaves was playing hurt most of the time. After the Hurricanes acquired him, they played him for one game (I believe) before discovering that the shoulder injury was much worse than what the Senators had claimed and required surgery.

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I'm not saying the Hurricanes should make such a trade either. Surely not. Eaves has upside, Dupuis does not.
My point is that its not Pittsburgh who should make a deal like this. We have to get Dupuis out of there for whatever and sign two 4th line specialists for the same price. Not because he isn't a decent player, but for cap reasons.
The problem is that nobody is likely going to take Dupuis without a contract coming back. As you said, you can sign similar fourth liners for half the cost.

I don't see why the Pens wouldn't take on a younger player with more upside on an identical contract (in terms of cap hit/years) while only sacrificing a "low pick."

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We're the defending champions and ought to figure as a contender again. That's not a time to go out and make Eaves a gamble for the top 6 when he has shown NOTHING to warrant it over the past three years and only once graced such levels on the back of an unsustainable shooting percentage.
I'm not saying that Pittsburgh is going to suffer a similar downfall (any team with Crosby/Malkin/Staal down the middle and Fleury in net is going to contend), but I sure wish the Hurricanes had gambled on players like Eaves in '06 instead of bringing in garbage like Letowski/Belanger and over-trusting Gleason/Ward/Ladd (very good players now but they quite frankly sucked that year).

The one gamble the Hurricanes made was trading Vasicek (who at the time was thought to be a good third-line shut down center with "potential", albeit coming off a serious knee injury) for the hilariously injury prone Scott Walker, who was then able to put together a healthy 20-goal/50 point season. One more gamble like that and I doubt the Hurricanes miss the playoffs.

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Again - we have a (for now) better player in Tyler Kennedy who cost half. We can upgrade him to top 6 instead if his play merits it and play Talbot on the third.
So if Maxime Talbot doesn't work out on the second line, you're going to play Tyler Kennedy there? No offense (as I know you've got the two best players in the league centering them), but that pretty much screams out a mid-season trade for a better winger.

Kennedy looks to be a very good player who has produced with limited ice time, but I think the Pens could still use another scoring winger. Then again that depends on who they re-sign.

Talbot had a great playoffs, but so did Jokinen and I doubt any Hurricanes fans would pencil him into the Top 6. Eaves has had two seasons higher than Talbot's 13 goals (granted, they were in the distant land of two years ago), not to mention he's a RH shot which the Pens lack if Guerin leaves.

If Eaves is given the opportunity somewhere (I hope it is here), I see him being a poor man's Justin Williams (similar skillset but less speed)...a guy who can get you 20 goals while playing on the first PK unit.

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06-20-2009, 10:36 AM
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Both Sidney Crosby and Patrick Eaves are Shattuck St. Mary's alums. Eaves would be a good pick up, he's gritty and works harder than anyone, but his all-out style leads to a lot of injuries.

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06-20-2009, 11:00 AM
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he played shotgun to heatley and spezza for a while. Even after that, he was lucky enough to play behind heatley-spezza-alfredsson, so his line didnt get much defensive attention.

When the senators started to fall apart, it became evident that Eaves had problems, so murray traded him in that desperation trade to try to get us back on track.

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06-20-2009, 11:18 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
He hit 14 goals and 32 points (while averaging 12:13/game) the next season with a 10.8 shooting %, so there's some scoring ability there even without an unsustainable shooting percentage.

Anybody who knows that 20% was likely to fall should know that 5.2% is likely to rise. You can pretty much throw out the 07-08 season as Eaves was playing hurt most of the time. After the Hurricanes acquired him, they played him for one game (I believe) before discovering that the shoulder injury was much worse than what the Senators had claimed and required surgery.
Hey, I think you should keep him . It sounds like you want to.
I'm saying the Pittsburgh Penguins should not be the ones to make this gamble on a player who - most likely - on the strength of what he has shown for three years now, is a bottom six player.

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The problem is that nobody is likely going to take Dupuis without a contract coming back. As you said, you can sign similar fourth liners for half the cost.
Yes - but this is with the qualification that we already have a third line. Dupuis has been a third liner all his career. Not a fourth liner. But he plays for a team that has gone to two straight Stanley Cup finals and have better players. Cooke-Staal-Kennedy has been great, and Talbot is another player who is just more important for us than him. In many other teams Dupuis is a fine third liner. Don't forget he has scored 20 goals before as well - with Lemaire in Minnesota.

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I don't see why the Pens wouldn't take on a younger player with more upside on an identical contract (in terms of cap hit/years) while only sacrificing a "low pick."
Because we need the cap space to sign the players we REALLY need. For instance - signing Fedotenko for around 2.5 per. That's difficult for us.
If we sign Eaves, then we have to try and force him into a top 6 spot and see if there's magic, and recent history speaks against it. Otherwise he would be playing bottom six in positions where we already have better players for the NEEDED jobs - or at least could sign them, cheaper (Zigomanis/Adams). A replica of the Dupuis situation. Why replicate a problem?

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Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
I'm not saying that Pittsburgh is going to suffer a similar downfall (any team with Crosby/Malkin/Staal down the middle and Fleury in net is going to contend), but I sure wish the Hurricanes had gambled on players like Eaves in '06 instead of bringing in garbage like Letowski/Belanger and over-trusting Gleason/Ward/Ladd (very good players now but they quite frankly sucked that year).
We have players like Tangradi, Pesonen and Caputi in the minors now who. We have at least four players who are legit options for the fourth line in WBS. There's a reason WBS went to the Calder finals last year, and lost to the Calder winners in 7 this season.

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Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
So if Maxime Talbot doesn't work out on the second line, you're going to play Tyler Kennedy there? No offense (as I know you've got the two best players in the league centering them), but that pretty much screams out a mid-season trade for a better winger.
Yeah - we only won the Stanley Cup with Talbot on the second line and him scoring both goals in the final. But personally I would rather have Tyler Kennedy there because he has much more offensive talent... I don't think many non-Pens know how good he actually is - at 22 years of age. If not for injury, he could have had 50 points from the third line this season.
Ultimately however, I am not saying that he is a world beater or star. We are going to have to play border line top 6 talent next to both Sid and Malkin always. Because that is the only way we can have both. Seems a pretty successful strategy so far.

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Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
If Eaves is given the opportunity somewhere (I hope it is here), I see him being a poor man's Justin Williams (similar skillset but less speed)...a guy who can get you 20 goals while playing on the first PK unit.
I hope for you guys he pans out. Don't know what else to say.

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06-20-2009, 11:20 AM
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The Pens cannot pay over a million dollars for any fourth liners next season.

That's why everyone is so enthralled with the idea of dumping Dupuis.

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06-20-2009, 01:13 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Hey, I think you should keep him . It sounds like you want to.
I'm saying the Pittsburgh Penguins should not be the ones to make this gamble on a player who - most likely - on the strength of what he has shown for three years now, is a bottom six player.
Fair enough. I want to keep Eaves, but more likely is that Rutherford makes some dumb trade to free up salary so he can sign some declining joke of a hockey player like Erik Cole. Either that or he trades him for a "physical defenseman" that can't skate.

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Yes - but this is with the qualification that we already have a third line. Dupuis has been a third liner all his career. Not a fourth liner. But he plays for a team that has gone to two straight Stanley Cup finals and have better players. Cooke-Staal-Kennedy has been great, and Talbot is another player who is just more important for us than him. In many other teams Dupuis is a fine third liner. Don't forget he has scored 20 goals before as well - with Lemaire in Minnesota.
Dupuis played most of the season prior to the Kunitz trade on the first line - not the fourth - and still did basically nothing....then went 0-0-0 in 16 playoff games. Even Eaves managed to actually score a goal in the playoffs. When someone only hits 28 points playing large portions of the season with Sidney Crosby, I wouldn't call them a Top 9 player. Andy Hilbert managed a better production rate than that.

Dupuis' 20 goal/48 point season will never be repeated unless he plays for a team with horrific wing depth that can give him absurd amounts of ice time (his next best season is 28 points). He averaged 17:30 game that season and had 13 PP points. Compare that to Eaves' career high of 12:46/game and 6 PP points. You can say that Eaves hasn't produced more than at a third-line rate in the past two (or three) years, but he's also never received more than third-line ice time. Dupuis, on the other hand, has pretty consistently seen 15+ minutes a game through out his career.

Dupuis is fourth liner who has seen tons of ice time on mostly bad teams (the Penguins obviously do not qualify as one), thus boosting his points up to ~25 a season. Give any decent hockey player 15+ minutes a game and they can do that. Zigomanis and Adams have come close to doing so.

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Because we need the cap space to sign the players we REALLY need. For instance - signing Fedotenko for around 2.5 per. That's difficult for us.
If we sign Eaves, then we have to try and force him into a top 6 spot and see if there's magic, and recent history speaks against it. Otherwise he would be playing bottom six in positions where we already have better players for the NEEDED jobs - or at least could sign them, cheaper (Zigomanis/Adams). A replica of the Dupuis situation. Why replicate a problem?
I hope you are able to unload Dupuis' contract with no money coming back, but I just don't see it happening unless the Penguins compensate the other team with a draft pick of some sort.

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We have players like Tangradi, Pesonen and Caputi in the minors now who. We have at least four players who are legit options for the fourth line in WBS. There's a reason WBS went to the Calder finals last year, and lost to the Calder winners in 7 this season.
Good. I wish the Hurricanes had players in the minors like that in '06. Once again I am not predicting a downfall for the Penguins....they have a better core than the Hurricanes did, a much better prospect pool (the Hurricanes were #2 in prospect rankings at the time, but Ward/Ladd/Johnson/Babchuk were still considered "prospects" by HF standards so that inflated the ranking), and are willing to spend close to the cap. I just think they could use maybe one more scoring winger depending on who gets re-signed. Who knows, though, maybe they won't need anybody.

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Yeah - we only won the Stanley Cup with Talbot on the second line and him scoring both goals in the final. But personally I would rather have Tyler Kennedy there because he has much more offensive talent... I don't think many non-Pens know how good he actually is - at 22 years of age. If not for injury, he could have had 50 points from the third line this season.
As a Hurricane fan who has witnessed two Cup finals appearances followed by garbage seasons, I know all about playoff heroes who fall flat on their faces the next season. There were about a half dozen of them, most of whom were given ridiculous long term contracts that are either still crippling the team (we are seriously paying Frantisek Kaberle $2.2M) or did so for years.

I wouldn't trust Talbot in the Top 6, regardless of his fantastic playoff performance. Tyler Kennedy is a whole different story---I could easily see him potting 50 points the next season if given proper ice time. He's a viable top 6 option.

Quote:
Ultimately however, I am not saying that he is a world beater or star. We are going to have to play border line top 6 talent next to both Sid and Malkin always. Because that is the only way we can have both. Seems a pretty successful strategy so far.

I hope for you guys he pans out. Don't know what else to say.
And I just wrote several paragraphs about Patrick Eaves, so I think I'm going to stop.


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06-20-2009, 02:31 PM
  #23
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the idea of dumping Dupuis is to clear cap space. how would you do that if you sign a player with a bigger cap hit? on top of it,another forth liner...

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06-20-2009, 04:10 PM
  #24
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I just re-read my posts and realized that I came across as a massive homer and probably somewhere close to Patrick Eaves' agent. Believe me when I say that valuing Eaves over Talbot or Dupuis is no slight to those two. I am just an Eaves fan and probably overrate him by quite a bit when compared to what he actually did last season, which was admittedly not much more than a career 4th liner in Ryan Bayda.

I tend to value players with grit and all-around ability over those who can score but offer little else. I also like complete players with hockey sense rather than those who generate points/success by having one good skill (speed, shooting, etc) that they beat into the ground.

Just on the Hurricanes, I'd take Eaves over the following forwards: LaRose, Cole, Jokinen, Samsonov, Brind'amour and Walker. I realize that this list sounds ridiculous when you compare the point totals, but I can list individual reasons for each player if anyone wants...I just don't feel like typing anymore right now.

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Originally Posted by cynic View Post
the idea of dumping Dupuis is to clear cap space. how would you do that if you sign a player with a bigger cap hit? on top of it,another forth liner...
Their cap hits are the same and both have two years left on their contract. Eaves' salary is 300k higher than Dupuis' in the third/final year, but the cap hit is the same because his salary was 300k lower in the first year.


Last edited by impeach estaalo: 06-20-2009 at 04:23 PM.
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06-20-2009, 05:11 PM
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vecens24
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I don't think Eaves would be a bad addition to the Pens actually. There is no way he is a 4th liner. If the Pens have to move up Kennedy (whcih I'm comign to the realization that they're probably going to have to do that), Eaves would be a great guy to slide right into that right wing slot on the Cooke-Staal line. He's a good grinder with a very good shot. I would actually probably try him on Malkin's line first to see if Malkin setting him produces the results of his Ottawa days, just so I didn't ahve to break up the Cooke-Staal-Kennedy line.

As far as value, I'd say either Dupuis and a 5th would be my first offerr, then a 3rd next year.

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