Okay, so we all know how good Dennis Seidenberg was last season. Unfortunately, Jim Rutherford visualizes greatness in the career of Bryan Rodney, so we're going to head into different (read: cheaper) directions. We don't have the money, what with the need to re-sign a declining, injury-prone, 30-year old joke of a hockey player (or "power forward") named Erik Cole...not to mention playoff wonderkid Jussi Jokinen (who can win face-offs and...stuff).
Don't be surprised if we lose both of Seidenberg and Babchuk, as it's always a good idea to lose two 30+ point defensemen in one offseason and replace them with great prospects such as Bryan Rodney.
But if we actually had a competent GM who didn't chase invisible bunny rabbits every offseason, would you want Seidenberg back? Not only did he log 22+ minutes a game in every situation (3rd on the team ahead of Tim MF Gleason), but he posted 30 points in 70 games, led the team in blocked shots, and had a decent playoff appearance. Not to mention that he's pretty physical for an offensive defensemen.
I like our kids - Rodney, Borer and Carson but they are not ready for #3 or #4. Especially Rodney who can be replacement only to Wallin not for our second best d-man Seids. Carson is a good skater, he's better than Rodney and i think can play good on third pairing with Babs eventually.
Yeah, i wanted DEUTSCH MACHINE back. He's our best d-man after Pitkanen. If i can choose between Seids and Corvo, the answer is very easily. Resign Seids, JR.
my dream is something like this
Pitkanen- Hamhuis [ it's not going to happen, goddamnit ]
Gleason- Seids
Babchuk- Carson
Wallin
but will be
Gleason- Corvo
Pitkanen- Babchuk
Rodney- Wallin
Hellyeah JR if this happen
Last edited by imayagainknowanson: 06-20-2009 at 08:53 PM.
I don't want him back under the condition that we use his vacancy to pick up a player via trade that can help us more. I think at times, stats can lie to you no matter how accurate they seem to be. Especially subjective stats like hits and blocked shots.
Bottom line, I don't think Seidenberg is as good as he's going to be paid and i'm glad that we're not the team that is going to give it to him for a change.
I like our kids - Rodney, Borer and Carson but they are not ready for #3 or #4.
It's not that they are not ready.... They will never be ready... they are not good, nor talented enough to be anywhere above #5.
Now, this poll i can say that i want Seids back... however, he has priced himself out of our budget. If we were one of those teams who uses cap rather than actual dollar figure as a target, I have no doubt we'd have Dennis back.
As of right now for all practical purposes he is not affordable and we'll have to let him go.
BTW, the very same thing will happen next offseason with Joe Corvo.
Carson I disagree with you on, I think he could easily pan out to be a good #3/4, but you're absolutely right on the other two. Really the only defensive prospect in our system that has good high end potential right now is McBain, who I can see projecting out to a #2 defenseman that, well, plays a lot like Seidenberg but hopefully more consistent.
As for Seidenberg, absolutely, especially if these "Kaberle to KHL" rumors are true. There is absolutely no reason NOT to spend on Seidenberg if Kabs is gone unless JR is going after Ohlund. Especially if someone is going to be moved off our roster to make salary room (I'm thinking Cullen is a likely candidate here). He's not as good as Gleason defensively but he's a hell of a lot better on the puck, is more versatile, and is a MUCH better skater. Those are 3 things that can not be underestimated, even if I am already on record suggesting that the Canes add another defenseman in UFA.
You guys give too much credit our defensive prospects.
Of course, in team like ours Carson can become your #3 and McBain #2 defenseman, but really they are more like #5/6 and #3/4 if we apply league wide standards.
As it was said in another thread, our defensive prospects tend to be grossly overrated, but only time will tell.
If there were no other options, I wouldn't mind having him back, especially if we were going to lose Babchuk.
However, he's not a high priority on my list. His mistakes during the playoffs really stood out in my mind. A defenseman that's played as long as he has really shouldn't be struggling with positioning at this point in his career.
If there were no other options, I wouldn't mind having him back, especially if we were going to lose Babchuk.
However, he's not a high priority on my list. His mistakes during the playoffs really stood out in my mind. A defenseman that's played as long as he has really shouldn't be struggling with positioning at this point in his career.
It was also his first real playoffs (other then essentially a cup of coffee with the Flyers) so I really don't read too terribly much into it. As much as we want to point out the guys mistakes in a lot of the games, him getting his **** together ended up being a big reason the Canes won TWO series. When he's on his game his puck movement can play a huge if underrated factor in the outcome of games. He delivered in two straight game 7s.
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Originally Posted by dmonk
You guys give too much credit our defensive prospects.
Of course, in team like ours Carson can become your #3 and McBain #2 defenseman, but really they are more like #5/6 and #3/4 if we apply league wide standards.
As it was said in another thread, our defensive prospects tend to be grossly overrated, but only time will tell.
Honestly I don't think so, at least in as much as we're absolutely no different than anyone else. How long are we going to hear about Anton Stralman before he shows a damn thing? How long before Doug Lynch was considered a bust? How long before people considered Carlo Colaiacovo more a punch line then a potential top 4 defenseman? How about the people that were deadset that Goligoski would get 30+ points this season and emerge as a top 4 defenseman? Or how about those that back in 06 were actually convinced that a trade of Jack Johnson and Andrew Ladd for Jordan Staal and Noah Welch would have been unfavorable for Pittsburgh? How is a guy like Ty Wishart any better then Brett Carson, other then the number of people supporting him on the prospects boards? How many times have we been waiting for the supposed "elite youth" of Florida and Atlanta to result in division championships all the while listening to the rantings of "This is the Year" for the last 8 years from a certain fanbase? If anything we are no different then any other fanbase, just probably not as idiotic about taking our cases to the main board.
What a random thread title, no idea where you got it from
My answer is yes. Poor playoff performance aside, he was probably our 3rd best defenseman all year long. He has consistency issues, but most of our D-men do. I highly doubt guys like Rodney, Carson, Borer, etc can step into his spot and produce like Seids. If we can go out and get another top 4 guy I'd be fine with not re-signing him.
Yeah, he didn't have a great playoffs at all. Not even a good one. But he is a bit of a diamond in the rough. He's a solid #4. If he wants to go for the money then all the power to him because JR won't stop him. I just hope JR lays the cards out on the table with him and doesn't BS him and undermine abilities and how good (although inconsistent) he was this year. Don't low ball him, is what I mean. I think if you insult him with an offer, he's gone. Give him a good/fair offer (maybe slightly under market value) and give him a vote of confidence in the top 4, and he might stay. It would be a great move for us. He is hopefully heading into the prime of his career. Remember when we got him for K-A? He's improved dramatically every year and we all know he was a late bloomer. Give him a 4 year deal for 8-9mil and I bet he signs. That being said, let's see a d-core of this:
Pitkanen - Gleason (seriously this is what needs to happen, Gleason - Corvo is just brutal)
Seidenberg - Corvo (scary, but if Seids can cover, it could be great)
Someone - Babchuk
Wallin (Kaberle to KHL)
I'd be happy with that. It's well within budget depending on what Seids and Babs get. And if they want a **** ton more, then they're gonna be gone anyway. Well that's all I got, and it's not much, but if we can teach these guys to play defense in their own end and really care about helping out cam and keeping the puck out of the net we could have a great group. 10 days left. Bring it on.
seids is a nice player, but did little to stand out.
to me, i['d rather see us bring in one of the kids and spend the cash that would have gone his way on some of that grit that rutherford mentioned.
seids is a nice player, but did little to stand out.
to me, i['d rather see us bring in one of the kids and spend the cash that would have gone his way on some of that grit that rutherford mentioned.
...While meanwhile losing defensive and all-around ability. None of the "kids" are going to replace what Seidenberg brings. I'd be very worried if any of our kids were playing more than a sheltered #6 role. And Rutherford has already said we're pretty much not going to sign a free agent, but rather we are going to make a trade.
So what are we going to do? LOSE AN ASSET to replace a defenseman that we could have signed for NOTHING simply because we have no money left over because Rutherford has hamstrung us with the contracts to Brind'amour, Walker, Kaberle and Wallin. Close to $10M dollars dedicated to two forwards who should/will be on the fourth line if we sign everyone and two #6/7 defensemen. But even WITH those contracts, we'd still have money for Seidenberg if Rutherford weren't so intent on signing a declining one trick pony in Erik Cole.
Unless said defensemen we acquire is markedly better than Seidenberg, this is horrific asset management.
And losing Babchuk at the same time is just complete insanity. Walking away from your #3 and #5 defensemen who combined for 21 goals and 65 points (despite both playing on the second PP unit) and replacing them with a kid and some "gritty physical defenseman" is a great way to go from Conference Finals to out of playoffs. Then again Jim Rutherford has already done that twice, so what's a third time?
Last edited by Amaxing Joni Jokel: 06-21-2009 at 09:46 AM.
The thing there is a big reason those teams missed the following years was JR handing out large contracts to players that simply had great runs. Instead of making changes at positions where we had declining players we kept them around and offered huge raises to guys like Hedican and Wallin. Instead of having flexibility to replace them with free agents around the league, we, a team with an internal cap, gave out bad contract after bad contract. Bad luck also had a good bit to do with it (Weekes and Brind'Amour's as well as NUMEROUS other injuries) in 03, the Canes were right in the mix for the top spot in the east until the Weekes injury. But in 07 bad signings did in the team, does anyone anywhere REALLY think Trevor Letowski was a valid 3rd liner at any point? Yet alone a 3rd line CENTER? Yet those were the types of moves the Canes were making to replace the rental players departures. About the only RIGHT move he made that year was shipping out Vasicek for Walker. It took changing coaches and grabing players like Samsonov and Jokinen for nothing to fix things over the past two years after his mistakes in 07.
Letting Seidenberg go and replacing him with nothing other then making a trade is a move in the exact wrong direction. Keeping Cole on the roster, if it's ANYTHING over 2.5 million on a one year deal, is a move in the wrong direction. Don't let the name get in the way of doing the right thing, especially when there are solid options like Zanon available via UFA. If there is a trade made it needs to be another relatively big salary going out (Cullen IMO) as well as a pick with another quality player coming back, not some scrub or aging waste of cap space.
I think it all comes down to who fills the spot. If we could get Ohlund(or other dependable big name), Skrastins, Zanon or Scuderi then im fine with letting Seids walk. If we have to replace him with Gill, Strudwick, Hnidy, or Alberts then my opinion changes. Its really more about the incoming UFA than it is about Dennis. Too bad we cant spend near the cap so this GM strategy could be used properly. Instead we too often get stuck overpaying our own players just so we can avoid the bidding wars and risk getting stuck playing NHL journeymen.
I think it all comes down to who fills the spot. If we could get Ohlund(or other dependable big name), Skrastins, Zanon or Scuderi then im fine with letting Seids walk.
None of those guys (except maybe Ohlund, who has apparently lost a lot of his mobility) offer the puck-moving/skating/offensive ability Seidenberg does. Ohlund and Skrastins are a fair amount older and are going to break down with all the shots they block.
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If we have to replace him with Gill, Strudwick, Hnidy, or Alberts then my opinion changes. Its really more about the incoming UFA than it is about Dennis. Too bad we cant spend near the cap so this GM strategy could be used properly. Instead we too often get stuck overpaying our own players just so we can avoid the bidding wars and risk getting stuck playing NHL journeymen.
It has nothing to do with not spending to the Cap....we're actually being very smart by sticking to our budget considering the Cap will actually be close to it next season. It has EVERYTHING to do with the ~$10M of stupid contracts Rutherford has handed out.
The thing there is a big reason those teams missed the following years was JR handing out large contracts to players that simply had great runs. Instead of making changes at positions where we had declining players we kept them around and offered huge raises to guys like Hedican and Wallin. Instead of having flexibility to replace them with free agents around the league, we, a team with an internal cap, gave out bad contract after bad contract. Bad luck also had a good bit to do with it (Weekes and Brind'Amour's as well as NUMEROUS other injuries) in 03, the Canes were right in the mix for the top spot in the east until the Weekes injury. But in 07 bad signings did in the team, does anyone anywhere REALLY think Trevor Letowski was a valid 3rd liner at any point? Yet alone a 3rd line CENTER? Yet those were the types of moves the Canes were making to replace the rental players departures. About the only RIGHT move he made that year was shipping out Vasicek for Walker. It took changing coaches and grabing players like Samsonov and Jokinen for nothing to fix things over the past two years after his mistakes in 07.
Letting Seidenberg go and replacing him with nothing other then making a trade is a move in the exact wrong direction. Keeping Cole on the roster, if it's ANYTHING over 2.5 million on a one year deal, is a move in the wrong direction. Don't let the name get in the way of doing the right thing, especially when there are solid options like Zanon available via UFA. If there is a trade made it needs to be another relatively big salary going out (Cullen IMO) as well as a pick with another quality player coming back, not some scrub or aging waste of cap space.
Absolutely no to Cullen being traded. He will be key to our second line this season. Brind'amour is done IMO and Jokinen isn't a good enough even strength player to center it.
This past season Cullen:
- Had the third best 5-on-5 goals against/60 on the team behind Bayda and Eaves.
- Scored 19 even strength/shorthanded goals.
- Had 43 points in 69 games despite getting very little PP time (only 7 PP points compared to 23 the year before).
Furthermore, Cullen would be the one likely filling in at the point if Seidenberg leaves. If both of them are gone and Babchuk is traded, that leaves us with who? Despite all of Corvo's flash and his great one-timer, his teams have had consistently average-to-poor powerplays and his production there this season was nothing special outside of all the 5-on-3 points he picked up. Pitkanen is a second unit PP guy who has never produced good numbers there outside of one season where he leeched off Forsberg and Gagne.
We are going to go pretty quickly back to the 06-07 and 07-08 days where we had no offense/puck-moving/speed on the back-end. Seidenberg and Babchuk will be gone this season and Corvo will be gone next season because we can't afford him.
Rutherford wants to add "size" and "grit", but he's going to add players who bring only that since he has no money to bring in complete hockey players. It's just like back when he constantly would bring in "bargain" offensive defensemen who couldn't really play defense or produce offense (Tverdovsky, Hutchinson, Tanabe).
Seidenberg may not be the most physical or defensive-minded player, but overall he is a better hockey player than Greg Zanon, Karlis Skrastins and yes even playoff hero Rob Scuderi (who is going to get massively overpaid). Seidenberg may cause a few more goals against over the course of a season compared to those players, but he's going to generate a lot more offense for his team at the same time.
Last edited by Amaxing Joni Jokel: 06-22-2009 at 06:43 AM.
All kidding aside, I agree. At this point in time, it's Matt Cullen as our 2nd line center. Anything else is wishful thinking and will not happen this offseason. If healthy, I wouldn't count out a 60-65 point season. As it stands right now, he looks to be relied on fairly heavily and if he gets out of the gate on a good note, 60 points isn't out of the radar. If Whitney - Cullen - LaRose click, in the regular season they could be fairly productive.
As for our defence and Dennis Seidenberg among others, its going to be interesting. I touched on this in another thread. I believe a lot of this will balance on what Kaberle does. Truth be told, Dennis Seidenberg deserves a raise and that cannot be put into question. The minutes he logged, 30 points he collected, hits he was counted for, blocked shots and top 4 role he displayed in his first full season of being heavily relied on, was a success. He is still young at only 2 years older than Gleason and Pitkanen. Who's to say he cannot build on last season and really cement himself as a top 4 defenceman in the next couple seasons? I think he can and I think we have something good here in which this organization has been a big part of grooming, why the hell give up on him? In my honest opinion if he wants 2 million you give it to him, he deserves it. He either gets paid here or elsewhere. He got 1.2 last season and again, I believe he took big steps as an NHL defenceman. I would hate like **** to not bother re-signing him because we're stuck with Kaberle and see him continue to develop into a very steady, fairly all-around defenceman on someone else's blueline. If Tim Gleason had the season Seids had last season, he would be up for the Norris by some Canes fans. Seidenberg is still a bit inconsistent, but which young defenceman isn't while learning the craft and molding out their game? Especially in a top 4 role. I know Tim Gleason is still quite inconsistent in his own zone and can have some ugly nights.
I will say this. Even if Kaberle doesn't go to Russia, if we lose a possible 3 more years of an up and coming Dennis Seidenberg because of one more lousy year of F. Kaberle, I will be pissed. I understand it is a salary cap world and these tough times come where you have to make unwanted decisions, but it will sure as hell suck to lose 3 more years of Seidenberg for 1 lousy year of Kaberle and even Wallin and his 1.725.
I could see Jim doing something like this. You know he is going to go fairly cheap for that physical defenceman he is looking for. Chances are Zanon, Leopold or Ohlund is a dream when talking JR. It's how he works. If we can lose Kaberle and his 2.2, we can give Seidenberg a deal for 2 million (800k from his 1.2 last season) and sign a rough, physical in your face defeceman like Steve Montador with part of the 1.4 remaining from Kaberles deal. I wanted Montado last offseason, but no, we decided to blow 1 million on Melicrap. He can easily log 15-20 minutes, balance our the top 4 with a physical defensive game or play a 3rd pairing role and be quite effective. He's rough and physical, will drop the mitts and is a tough guy, can clear the crease, block shots and he'll take a puck in the face if it means the red light behind him will not come on.
I would try and package Babchuk (as judging my JR's words, my best guess is his days are rather limited here whether it be now, during the season or next offseason). I would seriously consider packaging Babchuk and his 16 goals with our 1st round pick (27) and trying to move up in the draft to grab Landon Ferraro.
I have got going here so I am not sure if I am in the correct thread (don't think so) but I agree with Vagrant in the Colton Orr talk. I'd take him. If we could land him for a cheap $500,000 (ballpark) to have his intimidating presence and 6'3 220 on our 4th line RW, i'll take the flyer. Evidently he needs to be used in a limited role, but you can adjust to that. I am the kind of guy who would much rather someone be able to 'play' the game and not be a -28 the past two seasons combined, but i'd still take his toughness, just use him correctly.
I actually don't think we'll have to move up for Landon Ferraro if we want him. A lot of projections have him going very early in the 2nd round. There is a ton of depth in this draft and a lot of unaccounted for European talent that is going to clog up the 15th to 25th spots that many are dismissing. I think the chances are quite good that Carter Ashton, Landon Ferraro, Peter Holland, and Carl Klingberg will be there when we pick. I think 2/4 are not players we should want. The other two are Klingberg and Ferraro. Peter Holland is said to have attitude problems as well, so anybody that even casually observes the Hurricanes could assume he'll be out of the mouths at the table. Klingberg has the fact that he's a euro going against him and between Ferraro and Ashton, both have bloodlines, but Ferraro seems to be the more "Carolina" type pick. The only thing that worries me is that Ashton has the size. I almost hope somebody takes it out of our hands and reaches for Ashton in the middle of the first before we get a chance on him.
As far as Seidenberg is concerned, color me unimpressed. He is a jack of all trades where we need a master of one. In our system, he's not a first pairing powerplay quarterback. In our system, he's not a first pairing penalty killer. I think our biggest organizational need right now is a brutal and relentless penalty killing defenseman. I think we have been short a few since Wesley and Ward were here together. As much as I respect Gleason's game, he hasn't shown the progression that I would have liked to have seen in the mental aspects of the game. He still has big trouble at times following the flow of the game and losing his cover at important times. At even strength I think he does a fine job, but his penalty killing could use work. In situations where it's not appropriate to be physical but smart, he tends to have trouble. He doesn't defend well enough with his stick to negate puck flow of the opposition and limit passing lanes. Where as at even strength, he could negate those by playing the body which isn't an option when you're down a man. I feel that Carolina could greatly benefit by adding a defenseman that is somewhat a penalty killing specialist. I like a big frame of Hal Gill for that kind of work.
I look forward to AB ripping that to shreds statistically, but that is my feelings in regards to where the blueline stands and where it needs to be. I think we're one physical presence/penalty killer away from having a really solid group back there. Seidenberg is a valuable commodity to a team that needs a guy to play uneventful minutes and step up every now and again on the powerplay. I just don't think we're that team. With Cullen, Babchuk, Corvo, and Pitkanen we have two full units of pointmen. With one of Carson or Rodney likely to make the roster, they could also serve as emergency powerplay hands.
Interesting regarding your feelings on Ferraro, Vagrant. I really believe he will be a 1st round pick. I'd be real surprised if he slipped into the 2nd. Probably in the 15-25 ranks is my estimated guess. He may very well slip to 27. I just think if he is the type of player we want, I wouldn't mind moving up to secure him if the time came at the draft. We'll soon find out. I am really looking forward to Bob McKenzie's Final Draft Rankings tonight at 7pm, he is usually quite good.
I completely see your point of view on Seidenberg. I believe he has the potential and tools there to become more solid & consistent, we'll see if he takes that step. With that said, he is the type of defenceman that is very second tier and I don't believe in any system today Seidenberg belongs on a first unit PP. If anyone expects that, I think they're overrating him. I don't believe he has the offensive instincts and smoothness to be on a #1 PP. He is what he is. He can be real good and solid or he can be off his game and not be so solid. But again, so can Gleason, Pitkanen, etc. Unless you have Pronger, Neidermayer, Lidstrom, chances are there will be flaws and more complaints. Complaints, flaws and inconsistency go with Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Bieksa, etc. to name a few in the league aswell. Same for Zanon, Ohlund, Leopold or Hal Gill. The flaws are there just the same. As of right now Seidenberg is not 'great' at everything but he's 'good' at everything and very servicable.
The problem here is the fact that as much as Seidenberg is a second tier, jack of all trades, that's about as good as this organization will have in my mind. And for about 2 million (wanted from Seidenberg - Per Chip) I that is fair value. We don't pursue a master of all trades defenceman. For this team, that is Joni Pitkanen. That's probably as good as we get for the time being. Today, that is just how JR builds this team. Depth at every angle he can within the budget. I have expanded a few times on how I think JR should assemble this team, but that's my own dream.
Good points Vagrant! I pretty much totally agree. The one thing I'm wondering about is who is our trade bait? It seems like Cullen isn't a popular one to go, and I agree. But JR has said different times we may be going with a trade rather than a free agent signing. If someone like Corvo is in the package for a top end forward, I would feel quite a bit stronger on keeping Seids. Or maybe it's for that stay at home D man. Or both...
I actually don't think we'll have to move up for Landon Ferraro if we want him. A lot of projections have him going very early in the 2nd round. There is a ton of depth in this draft and a lot of unaccounted for European talent that is going to clog up the 15th to 25th spots that many are dismissing. I think the chances are quite good that Carter Ashton, Landon Ferraro, Peter Holland, and Carl Klingberg will be there when we pick. I think 2/4 are not players we should want. The other two are Klingberg and Ferraro. Peter Holland is said to have attitude problems as well, so anybody that even casually observes the Hurricanes could assume he'll be out of the mouths at the table. Klingberg has the fact that he's a euro going against him and between Ferraro and Ashton, both have bloodlines, but Ferraro seems to be the more "Carolina" type pick. The only thing that worries me is that Ashton has the size. I almost hope somebody takes it out of our hands and reaches for Ashton in the middle of the first before we get a chance on him.
As far as Seidenberg is concerned, color me unimpressed. He is a jack of all trades where we need a master of one. In our system, he's not a first pairing powerplay quarterback. In our system, he's not a first pairing penalty killer. I think our biggest organizational need right now is a brutal and relentless penalty killing defenseman. I think we have been short a few since Wesley and Ward were here together. As much as I respect Gleason's game, he hasn't shown the progression that I would have liked to have seen in the mental aspects of the game. He still has big trouble at times following the flow of the game and losing his cover at important times. At even strength I think he does a fine job, but his penalty killing could use work. In situations where it's not appropriate to be physical but smart, he tends to have trouble. He doesn't defend well enough with his stick to negate puck flow of the opposition and limit passing lanes. Where as at even strength, he could negate those by playing the body which isn't an option when you're down a man. I feel that Carolina could greatly benefit by adding a defenseman that is somewhat a penalty killing specialist. I like a big frame of Hal Gill for that kind of work.
I look forward to AB ripping that to shreds statistically, but that is my feelings in regards to where the blueline stands and where it needs to be. I think we're one physical presence/penalty killer away from having a really solid group back there. Seidenberg is a valuable commodity to a team that needs a guy to play uneventful minutes and step up every now and again on the powerplay. I just don't think we're that team. With Cullen, Babchuk, Corvo, and Pitkanen we have two full units of pointmen. With one of Carson or Rodney likely to make the roster, they could also serve as emergency powerplay hands.
If you break down the stats for last season, our PK was actually pretty good when Joni Pitkanen and Rod Brind'amour weren't on the ice. Both those guys had atrocious PK results while getting regular minutes there (so it wasn't from a lack of a sample size). I love Pitkanen and think he's the best defenseman on the team, but he had an uncanny ability to leave a guy open in front of the net for a deflection or rebound. Brind'amour is self-explanatory.
Our PK also seemed to greatly improve once Jokinen came here.
Seidenberg at 4-on-5 vs. UFA defensive defensemen (minimum 2 minutes/game and 40GP) in terms of goals against/60:
Andrew Alberts - 4.20
Rob Scuderi - 5.12
Marek Malik - 6.02
Hal Gill - 6.19
Mattias Ohlund - 6.29
Dennis Seidenberg - 6.33
Derek Morris - 6.45
Ossi Vaananen - 6.51
Greg Zanon - 6.57
Johnny Oduya - 6.68
Matt Walker - 7.72
Mike Komisarek - 8.83
Going after a PK specialist defenseman who may be marginally better than Seidenberg at killing penalties while extremely worse at moving the puck is a bad idea.
