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Kesler/Bieksa vs Brown/Greene

View Poll Results: Which pair would you rather have?
Dustin Brown and Matt Greene 21 22.34%
Ryan Kesler and Kevin Bieksa 73 77.66%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-21-2009, 09:25 AM
  #1
Wheatking
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Kesler/Bieksa vs Brown/Greene

I know they're all completely different players but that's the point.

Please say why you voted the way you did.

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Old
06-21-2009, 12:26 PM
  #2
Frolov 6'3
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Kesler/Bieksa without a doubt.

Greene is a warrior, pretty strong defensively but a little turn-over prone, just a little. No offensive abilities at all....and a liability in the fighting department.

Bieksa has an offensive game together with solid defensive play. Kesler very good two-way game. His Selke nomination speaks volumes and good for 25-30 goals each season if you ask me.

Brown, dont let me start about him. Together with Toews, the most...ah well, fill in the blanks. I do like his contract though.

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Old
06-21-2009, 12:39 PM
  #3
Shellz
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Brown and Green Great players. Can't go wrong.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:33 PM
  #4
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Kesler and Bieksa.

Kesler and Brown are comparable forwards but Greene will never be able to do what Bieksa does on the ice.

Kesler and Bieksa VS Brown and J. Johnson would have been a better comparison.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:35 PM
  #5
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I'm shocked it's even this close. Kesler and Bieksa combo are better by far. The prototypical two way guys. Can put up points and can also shut guys down. I'm not saying Browns not a good two way player, he's an nhl captain afterall. He just doesn't bring a Kesler two way game. As for Matt Greene? Yeah, good player but not on Bieksas level.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:38 PM
  #6
stempniaksen
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Brown > Kesler
Greene << Bieksa

That's how it broke down in my eyes.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:39 PM
  #7
Diamonddog01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Brown > Kesler
Greene << Bieksa

That's how it broke down in my eyes.
I'd agree.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:40 PM
  #8
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I favour Brown marginally over Kesler. I think Kesler is much better defensively, and he can play center, but Brown has a better goal scoring touch I think, and will top out with better offensive numbers and brings a lot to the table. I however think Bieksa is miles better than Greene, making Kesler/Bieksa a better pair.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:44 PM
  #9
RandV
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Kesler and Brown are fairly close, but I don't think Greene stacks up to Bieksa. LA fans seem really high on him but so far he's 26 and at best has been a solid #4-5 defensive defenseman. Bieksa logs a lot more minutes and is also capable contributing offense. This doesn't work if an LA fan can confirm that Greene got top shut down assignments, but just going by ice time LA used veteran Sean O'Donnell just a little more than Greene.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:45 PM
  #10
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I'm surprised people think Brown is better than Kesler. First of all Keslers defensive ability is second to none. Kesler has brown beat in that aspect. And second the guy has just as much offensive upside imo as Brown. He scored more points than Brown and he only played half the season on the scoring lines. You gotta be kidding me with this poll.

I also think Brown lacks hockey sense. He is just a straight forward type of player. Something Kesler can do but is not limited to.

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Old
06-21-2009, 01:47 PM
  #11
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brown is one of the most overrated players on hfboards. i saw a list that had him ranked above the sedins. LOL you've got to be kidding me his hitting doesnt make up for the 20+ point gap.

kesler and bieksa and it's not very close. kesler scored 26 goals in 82 games vs brown's 24 in 80.

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:00 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
I'm surprised people think Brown is better than Kesler. First of all Keslers defensive ability is second to none. Kesler has brown beat in that aspect. And second the guy has just as much offensive upside imo as Brown. He scored more points than Brown and he only played half the season on the scoring lines. You gotta be kidding me with this poll.

I also think Brown lacks hockey sense. He is just a straight forward type of player. Something Kesler can do but is not limited to.
I'm a Kings fan and I totally agree.

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Old
06-21-2009, 02:26 PM
  #13
NFITO
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how do you know if a poll isn't that close?

when the majority of fans won't even vote for players on their own!

all things considered, Brown and Kesler are probably fairly close... Brown is a more aggressive player and is a team captain... while Kesler is a much better 2-way player, and brings a boat-load of intangibles.

Bieksa is clearly better than Greene however... tilting this poll.

I think a poll for just Brown vs. Kesler would be a lot closer.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:02 PM
  #14
Wheatking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
how do you know if a poll isn't that close?

when the majority of fans won't even vote for players on their own!

all things considered, Brown and Kesler are probably fairly close... Brown is a more aggressive player and is a team captain... while Kesler is a much better 2-way player, and brings a boat-load of intangibles.

Bieksa is clearly better than Greene however... tilting this poll.

I think a poll for just Brown vs. Kesler would be a lot closer.
I got the comparison from a blurb posted on spectorshockey.
Quote:
BOSTON GLOBE: Kevin Paul Dupont reports three clubs - Los Angeles, Vancouver and Montreal - have the cap space to afford Ottawa Senators winger Dany Heatley but the tricky part is the potential return. Dupont believes Senators GM Bryan Murray could make the Kings his primary target, with the reporter suggesting a return that might make sense could be gritty left winger Dustin Brown and defenseman Matt Greene. Dupont feels the best the Canucks could offer is a lesser package of Ryan Kesler-Kevin Bieksa while the Canadiens pickings are even slimmer as half the roster is eligible for UFA status.
Calling Kesler and Bieksa a "lesser package" had me kind of scratching my head. Just wanted to see what others thought.

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:09 PM
  #15
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Brown is the best player out of the four, but I'd rather have Kesler and Bieksa.

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Shogun_ View Post
Brown is the best player out of the four, but I'd rather have Kesler and Bieksa.
how so? Kesler had more points playing on the first line for only half a season. And I don't think many people would argue that Kesler is not the better defensive player.

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Old
06-21-2009, 07:22 PM
  #17
kyle evs48
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God damn, you tricked me OP. You switched up the order in the title and poll options.

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:00 PM
  #18
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As far as a pair go I would prefer Kesler/Bieksa. I think Brown just had an off year, and I still think he has the most trade value of the three. Not that it completely covers his poor year, but you will notice the biggest dip in Brown's play came when his wife and newborn were stuck in the hospital after complications from the birth.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:25 PM
  #19
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I think that the Bieksa/Kesler package is better, but as a side note, Greene is better defensively than Bieksa, but provides no offense more than a weak-ass shot which misses 95% of the time.

IN fact, part of the reason that JMFJ didnt do so well this season is that they were paired at ES, and Greene would just throw it at the net, he would NEVER pass it to JMFJ

Kesler is currently probably equal to Brown, and is at a swing point whether he surpasses him or Dustin improves his game... but yes, he is getting (Dustin that is) very overrated on HFboards. He shouldn't be anything more than the 6th most offensively talented player on a team

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:33 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
I got the comparison from a blurb posted on spectorshockey.
Calling Kesler and Bieksa a "lesser package" had me kind of scratching my head. Just wanted to see what others thought.
Your source is Hub of... I mean, KPD... He's one of the truly great hockey writers in America, much less the world. He is spot on (most of the time) and tells it like he sees it. He was the 1st in Boston or anywhere (that I know of) to call out Thornton publicly, wanted him to be stripped of his Captaincy and was bashed (pretty hard to) by Boston fans...

Anyway, the long-short of the story. He falls in love with certain players and doesn't like others. Unlike most reports for local newspapers though, he doesn't fall in love with all of Boston's players. Recently, he's had a huge man-crush on Dominic Moore, he wanted Boston to sign him over Ryder. And he has valid points for wanted him signed over Ryder, mainly cost vs. production.

IMO, this could just be a case of KPD's man-love for Brown or Greene. The man watches/sees more hockey then anyone else I know, he watches a ton of out of market games... Or this could just be a case of a Brain-Fart. Sometimes, although not very often, people don't know what he's talking about.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:38 PM
  #21
Saren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doughty Number 8 View Post
I think that the Bieksa/Kesler package is better, but as a side note, Greene is better defensively than Bieksa...
Everybody is better defensively than Bieksa. Why do you think we have Mitchell out there beside him?

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Old
06-23-2009, 08:36 AM
  #22
NFITO
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
Everybody is better defensively than Bieksa. Why do you think we have Mitchell out there beside him?
Bieksa has hardly played with Mitchell this past year... he was with O'Brien on the 3rd pairing.

and when he did play with Mitchell in the past, it wasn't like he was there to babysit him - that was still the Canucks top shutdown line and played every game against the opposition's top lines... Bieksa's not the greatest defensive player out there, and he does get out of position too often trying to make those big hits, but he's still a very solid defensive player overall... at worst he's average defensively - you just don't play every shift against the opposition's top lines if you're that much of a liability.

Greene however is better than Bieksa defensively... but Bieksa is a much better dman overall, because he's got offensive skills that Greene couldn't dream of having... the gap between then defensively is significantly less than the gap between them offensively.

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Old
06-23-2009, 09:35 AM
  #23
Wheatking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
Bieksa has hardly played with Mitchell this past year... he was with O'Brien on the 3rd pairing.

and when he did play with Mitchell in the past, it wasn't like he was there to babysit him - that was still the Canucks top shutdown line and played every game against the opposition's top lines... Bieksa's not the greatest defensive player out there, and he does get out of position too often trying to make those big hits, but he's still a very solid defensive player overall... at worst he's average defensively - you just don't play every shift against the opposition's top lines if you're that much of a liability.

Greene however is better than Bieksa defensively... but Bieksa is a much better dman overall, because he's got offensive skills that Greene couldn't dream of having... the gap between then defensively is significantly less than the gap between them offensively.
I've watched quite a few Kings games because of their young talent and I've watched a lot of Canucks games because....they're always on. I'd say the gap between their defensive abilities, although less than their offense, is still pretty significant. I suppose it just depends on what you need.

I think Greene is being a little underrated in this thread. It's probably just because a lot of people don't know. He isn't a #5 defenseman anymore. He's actually more of a #3....maybe a #2 if you want a stay at home Dman paired with your offensive. He averages 20 minutes a night with zero powerplay time. He's a Smith/Regehr type of defenseman and in a couple years I wouldn't be surprised to see in put in the same class as them.

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Old
06-23-2009, 09:54 AM
  #24
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The Canucks pair.

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Old
06-26-2009, 12:53 PM
  #25
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Ryan Kesler and Kevin Bieksa

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