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LAK/COL - Frolov for the 3rd

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Old
06-22-2009, 04:25 PM
  #26
vecens24
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
come on, you cant even compare the two... it has nothing to do with points.. how many more points did he have anyways? 3-4? yeah and frolov had like 10 more goals in less games...oh yeah, frolov has averaged 30 goals over the past 3 years, poni has never hit 30...


frolov brings much more to the table then point production.. he creates so much space for his teammates and protects the puck better then anyone..
Frolov is definitely better, but by how much. I think if Toronto got the 30th overall pick from Pittsburgh (completely hypothetically here), they'd take that in a heartbeat for Ponikarovsky.

Is Frolov that much better than Poni that the difference is 27 slots in the first round? Absolutely not. I'd say pick wise Frolov is worth from 12-16, not top 3.

And by the way, I think the Kings are trying to add pieces to contend this year, not give them up for picks, so I'm not saying I would trade Frolov for a 12-16 overall pick, but I think thats what his value is at from a draft perspective.

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06-22-2009, 04:31 PM
  #27
Jwm1986
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
Frolov is definitely better, but by how much. I think if Toronto got the 30th overall pick from Pittsburgh (completely hypothetically here), they'd take that in a heartbeat for Ponikarovsky.

Is Frolov that much better than Poni that the difference is 27 slots in the first round? Absolutely not. I'd say pick wise Frolov is worth from 12-16, not top 3.

And by the way, I think the Kings are trying to add pieces to contend this year, not give them up for picks, so I'm not saying I would trade Frolov for a 12-16 overall pick, but I think thats what his value is at from a draft perspective.
I agree that Frolov is not worth the 3rd overall pick...i also agree with you that no matter what picks Frolov is worth, it would be a bad deal for us...we do need to add nhl ready pieces because we are very close to making that postseason push..Frolov is a very important part of that in my eyes and i think most Kings fans agree with me...

We traded a good goal scorer last year for a mid 1st rounder and i really hope i dont have to see that happen in a long time, no matter how high a pick Frolov could fetch us..

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06-22-2009, 05:01 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
come on, you cant even compare the two... it has nothing to do with points.. how many more points did he have anyways? 3-4? yeah and frolov had like 10 more goals in less games...oh yeah, frolov has averaged 30 goals over the past 3 years, poni has never hit 30...


frolov brings much more to the table then point production.. he creates so much space for his teammates and protects the puck better then anyone..
The point wasn't that Poni is better than Frolov (he isn't).

The point is that Frolov is as obviously not worth the 3rd overall pick as Poni is as obviously not worth the 5th overall pick. Many LA fans don't think that Poni is worth the difference between 5 and 7 in this draft. The irony here is that Poni (not worth moving up 2 spots in the draft) actually outscored Frolov (worth the 3rd overall pick?).

Of course, no one but the OP thinks this is a good deal (presumably). I just wanted to point out the irony and perhaps put the deal in perspective for the OP.

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Old
06-22-2009, 05:13 PM
  #29
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So, what if the Kings added Priesing?

The Avs are in somewhat of the same boat the Kings are in...they are more than just one player away. Them trading the third for a player like Frolov will help them to get better.

Keeping the 3rd and developing that player into their system is a better "gamble."

Now, I bet they would be tempted if it was

Bernier and the 5th

for

3rd/and a second or third round pick.

But I would not do that as a Kings fan.

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Old
06-22-2009, 05:32 PM
  #30
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No wonder you were such a terrible president
Winner!

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06-22-2009, 06:07 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backofthenet View Post
So, what if the Kings added Priesing?

The Avs are in somewhat of the same boat the Kings are in...they are more than just one player away. Them trading the third for a player like Frolov will help them to get better.

Keeping the 3rd and developing that player into their system is a better "gamble."

Now, I bet they would be tempted if it was

Bernier and the 5th

for

3rd/and a second or third round pick
.

But I would not do that as a Kings fan.
As a Kings fan I would do that....but just because I think that Duchene would have much more value to the Kings than Bernier will. The Kings actually have a few good goalie prospects right now....in terms of impact centers....not so much.

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06-22-2009, 06:10 PM
  #32
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Avs would be stupid if they made this deal

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:26 PM
  #33
MartinVanBuren
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My reasoning for Fro being worth 3rd overall is that you're pratically guaranteed 25 goals from him each season. He's averaged that every season of his career. Poni has averaged 12 goals per season.

Per 82 games, Fro averages 10 more goals (27 vs 17).

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:29 PM
  #34
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Hejduk has averaged 32 goals per season. What do you add to the 5th overall for Hejduk? Keep in mind he's 7 goals better than Frolov.

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:30 PM
  #35
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Kings are not trading Bernier to move up 2 spots and for a 2nd round pick.. thats just plain stupid.

And Frolov will not get us the #3 pick overall... would have to add something with Frolov to get that.

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:35 PM
  #36
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This deal makes no sense from either side. Kings won't move Frolov unless it's a move that makes them closer to the playoffs. And while Frolov is solid at both ends of the ice, he's not an impact player and definitely not worth the 3rd overall pick. You're not gonna get a potential franchise player for a 2nd liner that's good on the PK. Otherwise, the Flames offer Langkow for the same pick

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:38 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinVanBuren View Post
My reasoning for Fro being worth 3rd overall is that you're pratically guaranteed 25 goals from him each season. He's averaged that every season of his career. Poni has averaged 12 goals per season.

Per 82 games, Fro averages 10 more goals (27 vs 17).
Thats all well and good that Frolov averages 25 a year thats awesome.

But that doesn't mean you trade him for a guy that is a good two-way player already, and has the ability to score 90 points in an NHL season. Sure Duchene may bust, but Frolov is nowhere near the value of the potential of Duchene.

69 players scored 25 goals this year. Woudl you trade 69 players for the 3rd overall? Stars such as Slava Kozlov, RJ Umberger, Petr Sykora (who couldn't even suit up in the playoffs for the Pens), Joffrey Lupul, Mike Knuble, Nik Antropov (who was traded for a second rounder mid year) make up the list of people who scored 25 goals. Just becuase you score 25 goals a year doesn't make you a stud and defintiely doesn't make you worth the third overall pick.

By the way, if you take out Ponikarovsky's first four years in the NHL, where he played 10 minutes a game and only played 116 games combined in those first four years youre counting, he averages over 20 goals a year. By the way I consider Poni just a little bit better of a defensive player as well in his own zone. Frolov is defintiely better there's no doubt, but its not as far off as you think.

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:57 PM
  #38
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sorry.

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Old
06-22-2009, 08:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post

By the way, if you take out Ponikarovsky's first four years in the NHL, where he played 10 minutes a game and only played 116 games combined in those first four years youre counting, he averages over 20 goals a year. By the way I consider Poni just a little bit better of a defensive player as well in his own zone. Frolov is defintiely better there's no doubt, but its not as far off as you think.
Now that is funny.....Frolov is the best defensive forward on the Kings....and probably in the top 20 in the NHL.....Poni is not even close to that.

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06-22-2009, 08:20 PM
  #40
vecens24
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Now that is funny.....Frolov is the best defensive forward on the Kings....and probably in the top 20 in the NHL.....Poni is not even close to that.
We can agree to disagree on that one. Poni led the Leafs forwards in blocked shots this year, and is a very solid PK guy, just like Frolov. Also, Ponikarovsky's size is a factor as well. He doesn't necessarily use it the way you'd like him too all the time with his checking, but he still is bigger than a lot of the guys out on the ice at 6'4" which causes problems because of his reach defensively. No doubt Frolov is better in the neutral zone, but Poni's shot blocking ability makes him a little better in his own defensive zone I think, which is what I was stating.

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06-22-2009, 08:40 PM
  #41
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No way Colorado does this. They will go ahead and draft Duchene.

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Old
06-22-2009, 08:42 PM
  #42
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The Avs couldn't, wouldn't, and shouldn't do this trade.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:05 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by liveforthegame View Post
No way Colorado does this. They will go ahead and draft Duchene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcoffee View Post
The Avs couldn't, wouldn't, and shouldn't do this trade.
I am sure that 100% of Avs fans and 95% of Kings fans agree with you.

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:21 PM
  #44
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Any thoughts on...

To COL
Tom Preissing
Jeff Zatkoff
Alex Frolov
5th pick

To LA
3rd pick
Ryan Smyth

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:28 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
Any thoughts on...

To COL
Tom Preissing
Jeff Zatkoff
Alex Frolov
5th pick

To LA
3rd pick
Ryan Smyth
As an Avs fan I'd decline without thinking for a second.

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Old
06-23-2009, 03:13 AM
  #46
MikeC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinVanBuren View Post
My reasoning for Fro being worth 3rd overall is that you're pratically guaranteed 25 goals from him each season. He's averaged that every season of his career. Poni has averaged 12 goals per season.

Per 82 games, Fro averages 10 more goals (27 vs 17).
Please! Stop the insanity. Do a big favor to your futur kids. Go get a vasectomy now!

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Old
06-23-2009, 04:54 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
Any thoughts on...

To COL
Tom Preissing
Jeff Zatkoff
Alex Frolov
5th pick

To LA
3rd pick
Ryan Smyth
Pass. As much fun as it is for everyone in this forum section to say things like "Ryan Smyth has negative value", it's not true. He would have had more than 59 points this year if it weren't for playing 38 games with questionable centers.

And I know Frolov is more valuable than him, but not to the point where it's worth moving down two spots, in addition to taking on the contract of Preissing with only an unproven goalie as the sweetener.

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