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Joe Thornton or Patrick Marleau

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Old
06-22-2009, 06:57 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juice View Post
i look at him as a salary dump..... he is a gigantic let down every playoffs. you guys would have moved him long ago if it werent for the ntc...but feel free to keep him if you think he is such a good bargain
Oh I'd be careful making flippant comments from your perspective about players, someone might just come along and call trading a player is a simple salary dump. Anyone can make them, they don't really add much.

...


Like that guy....what's his name, Speeza?


Toldja.:

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:02 PM
  #27
Luck 6
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Originally Posted by PotaGuitar View Post
I'm going to post this in every thread I see which includes the words "Patrick Marleau" and "Playoff Choker"

since 2002, in the playoffs Patrick Marleau

leads the NHL in GWG (10)
is 2nd in goals at even strength (18)
is 2nd in total goals scored (1 behind Zetterberg with 32)
is tied for 1st in SHG (3)
is tied for 3rd in PPG (11)
Ok but c'mon... Those stats are kind of misleading.

I'm not saying Marleau is a choker.. I haven't watched enough games to actually comment as there is a lot more to playing good hockey than putting up points.

The fact that the Sharks have never gone anywhere despite regular season success suggests that their key players may not be consistant enough. Again, this is speculation. The fact that Marleau is nowhere near a PPG pace in the playoffs suggest he individually has not been consistant enough.

Does he have value? **** ya, but you can't rely on him to lead your team deep into the playoffs alone; the same can be said of many players that are considered "all-stars".

The Canucks would take him... I dunno what we could offer, but I would like to have him.

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:37 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Because Marleau is a better all around player without an attitude disorder? Heatley is better offensively, but not by a lot. Marleau is dramatically better defensively than Heatley.
Heatley is better than Marleau offensively, but not by a lot? Take those homer glasses off. How many 100 point seasons has Marleau had? How many fifty goal seasons?

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:16 PM
  #29
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Marleau would be a 1st liner on the Habs team only because we're weak down the middle .On most teams i would say Marleau would be a 2nd line center.To the homer that suggested that Heatley is better offensively, but not by a lot-Get a clue.
Thornton would easily have more trade value but the problem with J.T is he carries his playoff baggage with him which hurts his value a bit.For the Habs if i was chosing between the two it would be JT even considering his dismal playoffs.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
He's simply not that good.

He's a player who has benefited greatly from Joe taking the pressure off him. Before the Sharks got Joe, Patty was a 50-60 point player.
Before the Sharks got Joe, Marleau was a 24 year-old player in a game that was slower and allowed a lot more grabbing to take place. After they got Joe, the NHL tolerated less penalties, and since Marleau's speed is arguably his greatest aspect, he was finally able to flourish. Up until this year, Marleau had been stuck with worse linemates than Jose since he was moved to the 2nd line center (for example, Marleau played virtually the whole 2005 season with rookie Michalek who scored 35 pts and the 2nd half of the year with rookie Bernier, but Marleau ended up with 86 points). So, in that case, Joe didn't benefit him since he now had to be the best player and leader of the 2nd line instead of the 1st.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Joe and Spezza down the middle in Ottawa would be pretty scary.
go up against Malkin/Crosby pretty well.....
Now if they only had guys who could finish...

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:10 PM
  #32
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Marleau is a clear 1st liner on over half the teams in the league.

Bold=Marleau is a 1st line lock.
Red=Marleau would be the team's best LW or C.
Quote:
LA- 1st/2nd line LW (he and Frolov are neck and neck), 2nd line C. Probably would play 2nd line LW.
Phoenix- 1st line C or LW, Turris should catch him, but it;ll be a while. 1st line C with Doan and Mueller.
San Jose- 1st line LW, 2nd line C. 1st line LW.
Dallas- 2nd line LW (Morrow), maybe first line C (Riberio and Richards are close). Probably would play 2nd line LW.
Anaheim-2nd line C (Getzlaf), first line LW. Ryan and Perry are both close, but behind Marleau for the time being. Probably would play 2nd line LW do to chemistry.

Vancouver- 1st line C or LW (better than the Sedins, but close). Probably would play 1st line LW/C. Could end up on the second line because the Henrik+Daniel>Marleau+Demitra.
Colorado- 1st line LW, 2nd line C (Statsny). Could make an argument for Smyth, but I wouldn't. Probably would play first line LW.
Edmonton-1st line LW or C- perfect fit for Hemsky either way. Def. on Hemsky's line question is where.
Calgary- 1st line LW or C (Jokinen is better offensively, way worse defensively). Marleau-Jokinen-Iginla.

Minnesota- 1st line C (Koivu is close) or LW. 2nd line if Gaborik is 2nd line LW. Would probably center Gaborik.

Detroit- Behind Datsyuk, Hossa, Zetterberg, maybe Franzen. Probably 1st line LW, but not a top 3 forward. Who knows where they would use him.
Columbus- 1st line C, 2nd line LW. Guarantee he would play first line C with Nash.
Chicago- 1st line LW (edging out Sharp), 2nd line C (Toews). Would probably play 2nd line C.
Nashville- 1st line C (Arnott) and LW (Sullivan). Would play 1st line C.
St. Louis- 1st line C (Berglund could catch him; no on McDonald) or LW (Perron and Oshie maybe, Tkatchuk years ago). Would probably play 1st line LW with McDonald.

Pittsburgh- 1st line LW, 3rd line C (Crosby and Malkin). Crosby/Malkin+Marleau would be the team's best line.
Philly- 1st/2nd LW (Gagne and him are neck and neck) 3rd line C (Richards, Carter, Giroulx in the future?). Would play 1st/2nd line LW.
NYR-1st line C (Better than Gomez and Drury), 1st line LW. Would play 1st line LW with Gomez.
NYI- 1st line LW or C (How many years until Tavares/Duchene catches him?)

NJD-1st line C (over Zajac), 2nd line LW (Parise). With Elias and Parise, he would play 1st line C.

Boston- 1st line LW, 2nd line C. Would almost certainly play on Savard's LW. Maybe 3rd line C behind Krejci/Bergeron, but he would be a wing given Boston's center depth.
Buffalo- 1st line C (edging out Roy) 2nd line LW (Vanek). Buffalo may prefer to keep Vanek-Roy-Poms together, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Marleau play 2nd line LW.
Toronto-1st line LW or C. Probably 1st line C with Blake and Stemniak.
Montreal-1st line LW or C. Depends on FAs way too much to say.

Ottawa- 2nd line C (Spezza) or LW (Heater).

ATL- 1st line C or 2nd line LW. Kovy would think he'd died an gone to heaven.
Tampa-1st line LW or 2nd line C (VL). LW on a Marleau-Lecavalier-St. Louis line.

Was- 3rd line LW, 1st/2nd C. Backstrom, Ovy and Semin are all better. My guess is Ovy-Marleau and Semin-Backstrom would be paired.
Florida- 1st line LW or C. Likely 1st line C with Booth and Horton
Carolina- 1st line LW or 2nd line C (Staal). Likely 1st line LW with Staal.
Marleau is a first liner. 70 points in three of the last four years (including 78 and 86). He is also an elite defensive player, leading the #5 ranked PK in SHTOI amongst forwards. He is he best defensive player on the Sharks, and would have hit 80 points again had he not been hurt. He also played more minutes than all but eight forwards in the league.

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:23 PM
  #33
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Marleau didn't have a career year this year. He had 87 points a few years back. This year he was getting back too form and I think whoever wound up with him would be very happy

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:33 PM
  #34
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I consider a lot better a difference of 30-40 points, not 10-20 (highs compared).

No homerism here, just a different idea of what 'a lot' is.

Heatley is better offensively, no doubt about it. Marleau is better defensively, by a long shot. Heatley has serious attitude issues. Marleau does not.

I'd take Marleau, sorry. Just not as a captain.

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Old
06-22-2009, 11:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
If SJ was to shake up their team in a big way and trade one of their big centers, which would be more likely to be traded?

Which of them would be able to fetch the most in the trade?
I'll respond to this and not all the other retardation in this thread. San Jose would more likely deal Patrick Marleau simply because Doug Wilson has already stated that Thornton won't be dealt for whatever reason.

To your 2nd question, Joe Thornton would be able to fetch the most because of his career numbers on average being better and having a better contract.

As for what I think is best for the team, I think Thornton being dealt would be a hell of a lot better than if Marleau was dealt. Marleau's not going to get a lot in return because of one year left...if he's dealt in a sign and trade, then he'll get a bit more. Thornton is a supreme playmaker when he's playing right that can make others better but his attitude is a humongous detriment to the team.

In the end, neither is going to be dealt whether DW wants to deal Marleau or not because both have NTC's. And the Sharks will suffer another early exit next year because Wilson is advocating Thornton's attitude by publicly taking him off the table and not Marleau. This team is not going to have a pretty ending next year, with or without Marleau.

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Old
06-23-2009, 12:11 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
I think the better question is, how is Marleau considered a 1st liner.
He played the entire year on the 1st line of one of the best teams in the NHL.

Anyone who doesn't think he belongs on the 1st line doesn't have a clue.

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Old
06-23-2009, 01:41 AM
  #37
struckbyaparkedcar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Bold=Marleau is a 1st line lock.
Red=Marleau would be the team's best LW or C.


Marleau is a first liner. 70 points in three of the last four years (including 78 and 86). He is also an elite defensive player, leading the #5 ranked PK in SHTOI amongst forwards. He is he best defensive player on the Sharks, and would have hit 80 points again had he not been hurt. He also played more minutes than all but eight forwards in the league.
To nit-pick the chart, in Buffalo he'd probably be the 2nd line center. It would come down to whoever would have the most chemistry with Vanek, as the Vanek-X tandem obviously comprises the first line. I'd have to assume that the lineup with Marleau (providing the Sabres don't move any top six pieces to acquire him would look like)
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Roy-Marleau-Stafford

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Old
06-23-2009, 05:04 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
To nit-pick the chart, in Buffalo he'd probably be the 2nd line center. It would come down to whoever would have the most chemistry with Vanek, as the Vanek-X tandem obviously comprises the first line. I'd have to assume that the lineup with Marleau (providing the Sabres don't move any top six pieces to acquire him would look like)
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Roy-Marleau-Stafford
Connolly is not better than Marleau. period.

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Old
06-23-2009, 06:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Ok but c'mon... Those stats are kind of misleading.
How are those stats misleading? This is exactly the situation you may not even watch him playing and simply say he is good in the play-offs. If not spectacular.

When Sharks started to play Detroit type of hockey I started to follow them closely. He looks like Zetterberg out there and more importantly he fits the Sharks like Zetterberg fits in the Detroit system. Not so flashy like Datsyuk or Thornton but he is always there in the corner battling for the puck. This guy is a must for a team to win the Stanley Cup. The problem is Thornton. I really hope Sharks do realize that.

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