HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers Zero In On Signing Liffiton

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-26-2004, 07:53 AM
  #1
KING
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,776
vCash: 500
Rangers Zero In On Signing Liffiton

http://nypost.com/sports/rangers/16107.htm

KING is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 08:20 AM
  #2
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,091
vCash: 500
One good thing and one bad thing

"While it appears RJ Umberger's look-see with the Rangers will amount to a see-you-later"

"Umberger, is seeking the cap of $1.13M per over the next two seasons to sign"

"The Rangers, are believed to have made a token offer of below $250,000 per"


I hate Jackass more and more every day. With all the $$$ he threw at every imaginable waste of a UFA, NOW he chooses to be frugal? First, Zidlicky and now Umberger. Unreal. How the eff' does he justify nickle and diming the kid, while paying some of the $$$ that he did to people like Ciger and Karpa?
As I have said all along, I have ZERO faith in any rebuild that Sather oversees. I have no faith in him whatsoever.

And the good (at least to me):

"Liffiton, mean-edged with an attitude, was suspended for two games at the end of the regular season for instigating a fight in the final five minutes of a match.

"As far as we're concerned," said Maloney, "that's a plus." "


You know what? So do I. As I said before, last year's draft was supposedly deep enough so that first round talend was going well into the 3rd round. Well, Liffiton was a 2nd rounder (Kozak a 3rd). From what research I managed to do on him, I see that Liffiton is a fairly smooth skater (not a speedster but pretty good for a stay at home....think Kloucek) who makes a pretty good first pass out of the defensive zone. After that, his entire focuse is on defense. He clears the crease and has an attitude and is mean. After seeing nothing but defensemen that are contact averse, I actually don't mind one that will be nasty, match penalties or no. To me, Liffiton is one of the more intriguing prospects that was brought in at the deadline purge.

True Blue is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 08:38 AM
  #3
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,192
vCash: 500
Tb...

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
"While it appears RJ Umberger's look-see with the Rangers will amount to a see-you-later"

"Umberger, is seeking the cap of $1.13M per over the next two seasons to sign"

"The Rangers, are believed to have made a token offer of below $250,000 per"


I hate Jackass more and more every day. With all the $$$ he threw at every imaginable waste of a UFA, NOW he chooses to be frugal? First, Zidlicky and now Umberger. Unreal. How the eff' does he justify nickle and diming the kid, while paying some of the $$$ that he did to people like Ciger and Karpa?
As I have said all along, I have ZERO faith in any rebuild that Sather oversees. I have no faith in him whatsoever.

And the good (at least to me):

"Liffiton, mean-edged with an attitude, was suspended for two games at the end of the regular season for instigating a fight in the final five minutes of a match.

"As far as we're concerned," said Maloney, "that's a plus." "


You know what? So do I. As I said before, last year's draft was supposedly deep enough so that first round talend was going well into the 3rd round. Well, Liffiton was a 2nd rounder (Kozak a 3rd). From what research I managed to do on him, I see that Liffiton is a fairly smooth skater (not a speedster but pretty good for a stay at home....think Kloucek) who makes a pretty good first pass out of the defensive zone. After that, his entire focuse is on defense. He clears the crease and has an attitude and is mean. After seeing nothing but defensemen that are contact averse, I actually don't mind one that will be nasty, match penalties or no. To me, Liffiton is one of the more intriguing prospects that was brought in at the deadline purge.
According to someone at RFC, who e-mailed corresprondence with a writer for the Hartford Courant, Umberger hasn't exactly wowed the Hartford brass and players. Issues about effort have come up. However, remember this is Brooks we are talking about, who likes to make assumptions way before the correct conclusions are determined.

jas is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:10 AM
  #4
Melrose_Jr.
Registered User
 
Melrose_Jr.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Providence, RI
Country: United States
Posts: 10,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
According to someone at RFC, who e-mailed corresprondence with a writer for the Hartford Courant, Umberger hasn't exactly wowed the Hartford brass and players.
Brooks also adds....."Umberger - whose desire questions abound.........."

The offer was uncompetitve, so obviously there's ZERO interest in bringing this guy in. It's not like Maloney's not making an educated decision here. Frankly, I'm not interested in seeing any more players with motivational issues pull a blueshirt over their head either.

Melrose_Jr. is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:13 AM
  #5
BLACKBURN
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 923
vCash: 500
so we have 4 2nd rounder then? I cant wait till July

BLACKBURN is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:32 AM
  #6
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
so we have 4 2nd rounder then? I cant wait till July
if umberger isn't signed that will give us 5 2nd rounders...we right now have our own 2nd, montreal's 2nd, florida's 2nd and another 2nd from the nedved deal which is either edmonton's or a comp pick from the leetch deal

NYR469 is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:33 AM
  #7
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
You know what TB...

maybe the guy does lack effort. Maybe the guy's not worth $1.13 million. The organization cannot sign and play every under 23 kid it has - there's just not enough ice. Mabye there's someone down the line that's better that can be had with that #2 pick. Maybe that #2 pick can be combined with someone else to bring in someone better than Umberger.

As for Zidlicky, think about it this way: you questioned somone's opinion in regards to Pock. Bein undrafted and such. Zidlicky wasn't drafted until he was 25 years old, and was passed up by 30 teams almost 6 times before he was finally picked, and you believe this guy should've been awarded a contract (I believe it was an NHL contract - and probably more than the $500K he eventually signed on with Nashville to play) based on his play in Finland, but question someone's assessment of Pock, a younger guy, after having a decent senior year in college, and who is a finalist for best college hockey player.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:43 AM
  #8
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,091
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
As for Zidlicky, think about it this way: you questioned somone's opinion in regards to Pock. Bein undrafted and such. Zidlicky wasn't drafted until he was 25 years old, and was passed up by 30 teams almost 6 times before he was finally picked, and you believe this guy should've been awarded a contract (I believe it was an NHL contract - and probably more than the $500K he eventually signed on with Nashville to play) based on his play in Finland, but question someone's assessment of Pock, a younger guy, after having a decent senior year in college, and who is a finalist for best college hockey player.
Touche

True Blue is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:48 AM
  #9
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
For the record, though...

I do hear what you're saying. I think Sather's being cautious. He'd love to have the guy under contract (meaning, a cheap option if others options do not come to fruition), but isn't willing to commit because there may be a trade for a center that renders him somewhat obsolete. He may draft one in the first round who he'd rather have in camp and given a shot. There may be a UFA he wants to have an option to sign. And in the end, he's weighing these options because Umberger turned him off. Of course I'm just guessing on all fronts here, as who knows what goes through that silly mind of his.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:50 AM
  #10
Kodiak
Registered User
 
Kodiak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ranger fan in Philly
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Kodiak Send a message via AIM to Kodiak Send a message via Yahoo to Kodiak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
maybe the guy does lack effort. Maybe the guy's not worth $1.13 million. The organization cannot sign and play every under 23 kid it has - there's just not enough ice. Mabye there's someone down the line that's better that can be had with that #2 pick. Maybe that #2 pick can be combined with someone else to bring in someone better than Umberger.
If that's the case, then Sather and co should've shipped Rucinsky elsewhere. Rucinsky was the best forward available on deadline day, and there were supposedly many teams very interested in him. In that case, a bubble enforcer and a mid-2nd in a weak draft is not a good return.

Kodiak is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 09:58 AM
  #11
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,091
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=Fletchbut isn't willing to commit because there may be a trade for a center that renders him somewhat obsolete.
There may be a UFA he wants to have an option to sign. [/QUOTE]

And therein lies the problem as far as I am concerned. Or at leas a part of it. He may want to trade for someone (Federov comes to mind for some unknown reason). He may want to bring in a UFA. He may want to do a lot of things, but for some reason giving what is right under his nose a shot does not seem to be one of them. He is reluctant to give a kid with top 2 line potenential an extra $500k, but when it comes time for Ciger, Krapa, Ulanov, hey money's no object.
Jackass ALWAYS thinks that the solution is ALWAYS found outside the organization. He has a kid with potential here. If you are rebuilding, this is exactly the kid you give a shot to.
I was having visions of a possible kid line of Lundmark-Umberger-Balej. The wings can be flip-flopped. Umberger has the size to play center in the East and will get bigger. 2 pretty good, quick wings with potential. Could be a winner. But I guess we'll never know.

True Blue is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 10:01 AM
  #12
Big Bill
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Land of milk & honey
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Big Bill Send a message via MSN to Big Bill
This is said to be a weak draft year, so they better package a lot of those #2s for something. After all the trades, we have tons of 2nd and 3rd tier prospects. We need a few higher end players, and by higher end I do not mean top nothc either

Big Bill is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 10:09 AM
  #13
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
Kodiak...

perhaps, but I personally don't know what was out there. Perhaps Sather was fine with getting Grenier and a #2 pick for Rucinsky, and took a chance on Umberger hoping there was a possibility. But then again, who knows if the offer's that's out there is true.

TB...I don't have a problem bringing in a veteran center. This team will not survive with 10 under 25 year olds with zero-one year's of experience, or a couple fourth liners, plus Jagr and Holik. And there aren't many who will watch it.

Sather used bad judgement in Karpa and Ciger - albeit he was more informed about them than Umberger - but was just stupid. Both had played at the NHL level, and Sather (wrongly) thought they would be good fits. Umberger's an unproven talent that he's not willing to take a flyer, quite possibly, is my guess. And you know what, if I've seen a guy play in the NHL on many occasions and think he's pretty good, I too may pay more for him than a kid who I think may have 'desire questions' and who hasn't stepped onto the ice as an NHLer, despite the age difference.

And of course we're just talking to the assumptions we've read in a paper that may not be accurate.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 10:23 AM
  #14
NYR469
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,785
vCash: 500
i have a VERY hard time believing that the rangers offered $250,000...first off why would sather waste his time making that offer and second, i'm pretty sure that is well below the league minimum which makes it an invalid offer...

my guess is what brooks meant to say is they offered him $250k less than the rookie max...or about $880,000/year. which imo really isn't that bad of a starting point since umberger was looking for $950,000 from vancouver

NYR469 is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 11:03 AM
  #15
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
By saying token offer...

it implies the number is below $250K, not $250K below. $250K below would be a serious offer. Why would he waste his time? Because if he doesn't work out, he doesn't cost much as a failure. If this is all true, it's obvious that Sather & Co. were not impressed with him.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 11:14 AM
  #16
Kodiak
Registered User
 
Kodiak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ranger fan in Philly
Posts: 2,185
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Kodiak Send a message via AIM to Kodiak Send a message via Yahoo to Kodiak
Fletch, I find it hard to believe that Sather and co are letting a week of practice after not playing for a year overrule scouting from before Umberger was drafted and the scouting they have done on the kid since they became interested in trading for him. If they were serious about Umberger being the main chip in the Rucinsky deal (because it sure as hell wasn't Grenier) then he would be signed by now and playing in games that matter. This whole "we like this kid but he needs to prove himself" schtick was a load of BS to begin with. If they had that many question marks about Umberger they wouldn't have dealt for him in the first place.

It's crap like this that makes me wish that Sather was not at the helm for this rebuilding effort.

Kodiak is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 11:31 AM
  #17
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
I couldn't tell you...

it was a week of practice with the Rangers, then a week with the 'Pack. I don't know what's going through his head. Maybe Sather is making excuses, plans to get the second round pick, and plans to trump bidders come July 1, I don't know. Maybe Brooks is way off base right now. Heck, what's the hurry to sign Liffiton - he can't sign until his team is done and being up 3-1, that could be a while.

Fletch is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 12:31 PM
  #18
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bill
This is said to be a weak draft year, so they better package a lot of those #2s for something. After all the trades, we have tons of 2nd and 3rd tier prospects. We need a few higher end players, and by higher end I do not mean top nothc either
Don't believe the hype man. This draft could turn out very good, it seems that the prospects this year have alot of question marks for one reason or another. But if you look at past drafts(1999 for example) that were supposed to have dozens of can't miss kids, now they're being looked at as overhyped. The reverse could be the case with thsi year, we'll know down the road.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 12:47 PM
  #19
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Gimme time on this one:

The offer was more than $250,000 but well below 1.3 million

From what I have heard {I'm not there} Umberger has looked a little.....aloof for lack of a better word.

Edge is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 12:58 PM
  #20
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
Gimme time on this one:

The offer was more than $250,000 but well below 1.3 million

From what I have heard {I'm not there} Umberger has looked a little.....aloof for lack of a better word.

Yeah, God forbid the kid comes into his first Professional practices after missing a whole season and seem to be 'distant' on the ice.

I mean come on Edge, is there no leeway given here? I don't know, maybe the kid has rocks in his head, maybe he is nothing special, I just feel the spin doctors setting up the negative Umberger stance way too soon.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 01:01 PM
  #21
BigE
Registered User
 
BigE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
That Umberger kid has to be thinking...man I better be careful of what I wish for in the future.

He asks to be traded and then is dealt to a team that doesn't offer him anything even close to what Vancouver offered, let alone what he really wants.

The only reason I'd consider signing this kid is so that I could deal him at the draft. However, there are no guarantees that at, $1.13 million, there are going to be any takers...especially cash-strapped teams that might have a good first rounder (Pitts, Columbus, Florida etc. I'd almost be worried that I'd get stuck with this ******* and that within a year he'd be demanding to play for the NHL squad or not at all.

BigE is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 01:01 PM
  #22
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
Well that's now two teams that have expressed concerns about his head and his effort.

Is it totally true? I couldn't really say right now.

I've heard from people on a few different teams and the same two things always come up:

1. Kids got some skills.

2. Where is his head?

Again I can't tell you one way or the other on the issue. What I CAN say is there is a lot of potential and a lot of concern.

Edge is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 01:05 PM
  #23
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
What I CAN say is there is a lot of potential and a lot of concern.
Sounds like every prospect in the 2004 draft sans AO :p

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 01:10 PM
  #24
BigE
Registered User
 
BigE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13
Yeah, God forbid the kid comes into his first Professional practices after missing a whole season and seem to be 'distant' on the ice.

I mean come on Edge, is there no leeway given here? I don't know, maybe the kid has rocks in his head, maybe he is nothing special, I just feel the spin doctors setting up the negative Umberger stance way too soon.
I'd agree and as a hockey player myself, although by no means as skilled as R.J., you often dream of being a pro player and getting paid to play. I think, sometimes, these kids let the latter take precedent over the former. He might be getting an unjust rap with the fans, through the media but there comes a time where you just have to shut up and play...

If they give you $250,000 or $500,000 to start off with then fine - take it for two years. Prove to them that you deserve more and maybe you'll get what you're asking for.

He's asking for respect and acknowledgement that he's as good of a player as he thinks he is. Right now there are two consecutive teams that believe he's not. Maybe it's time he shows a little respect in return; shuts his mouth about how good of a character he is and how hard he's willing to work and just proves it.

When it comes to prospects hockey is all about what have you done for me lately and well, lately you haven't done very much.


Last edited by BigE: 03-26-2004 at 01:14 PM.
BigE is offline  
Old
03-26-2004, 01:11 PM
  #25
cbjacketsfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 25
vCash: 500
http://www.ctnow.com/sports/hockey/h...adlines-hockey

Sather has stated he works hard in the practices he's seen. Aloof? Umberger has not been offered any thing from the Rangers yet, Brooks report is an error!

"He's got good size [6 feet 2, 205 pounds], a good attitude, handles the puck well, works hard and skates well enough," Sather said.

"But it's very difficult to jump right in and do much when you haven't played for a year, so to give a guy a proper evaluation, he needs to play some games.


The only thing that Umberger has been offered is a tryout to play games, which Umberger will never agree to when he will be a free agent in 2 months.


Last edited by cbjacketsfan: 03-26-2004 at 01:16 PM.
cbjacketsfan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.