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Old
06-24-2009, 11:04 PM
  #26
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Well Done.

Leafs get the best shake out of this i imagine just because of the 14th overall pick

Philly fans may be a little upset losing Lupul but lets face it, he needs to go to sign JBO

Florida seems to get very little but if you think about it, they could lose Jbo for nothing. Why not move down a few spots in the draft and pick up Kaberle. It is not a bad shake for them at all

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06-24-2009, 11:06 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
That defenseman is going to walk. His value is very low. A 1st round pick and a 2nd line winger for the rights to a top-pairing defenseman, a 2nd/3rd line winger and a 3rd rounder is not unfair at all.
Maybe make some conditions then that protect the Flyers if they don't sign Bouwmeester?

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:47 AM
  #28
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I would hate to see Lupul go as I am a big fan. I'd rather see Briere moved, I know he has a NMC, but wishes are fishes or somesuch. I'd love to see a line of Gagne-Richards-Lupul as I feel this would really let Joffrey thrive as a shooter...he has moments of pure brilliance. If he plays the 1 or 2 wing with a center other than Carter then I think he is easily a 35 goal scorer. The guy needs to have a center who moves the puck and finds him for the shot, Carter moves the puck and shoots himself.

Frankly, I think JayBo would be a great signing, but I'd rather not lose Lupul and roll an extremely potent offense, move Carle or, fingers crossed, Briere and let some younger defensemen or a mid-range free agent signing step up and be a decent D-corps. I think this would be the best way to enter the season and adjust as necessary.

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Old
06-25-2009, 01:39 AM
  #29
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It's a prett decent start but I definitely think that FLA should keep their 1st and the Leafs would end up getting Philly's 1st at #21. Also, there is no way that Fla could take on Jones.


All that said, from a Flyers POV I'd still rather just make it Lupul + 3rd for J-Bo + conditonal 2010 1st (Flyers only get the 1st if J-Bo walks). I'd much rather keep our #21 pick over getting Poni, basically what we'd be doing in the 3-way trade. I also believe that Fla would rather have Ellerby + Lupul + 3rd than Kaberle.

Again, it's not a bad trade but I just think that the Flyers and Panthers make better trading partners without bringing the Leafs nto the mix.


To the Flyers, 09 1st, #21 OA >> Poni (or Poni + 3rd in revised proposa) + the 3rd we'd give up to get J-Bo in a Philly/FLA trade only.

To the Panthers (and again I AM speaking for THEIR fans here so they may actually feel differently), Ellerby + Lupul + 3rd >> Kaberle + 3rd (or without that 3rd in the revised proposal as it was shifted to the Flyers). Also note that I based this off the idea that Fla keeps their 1st this year and Tor gets the Flyers 1st (makes much more sense to me than for Fla to give up J-Bo's right AND have to trade down in the draft not to mention giving up a solid prospect all just for a dman wo wont stay with them for more than 2 years).

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Old
06-25-2009, 03:36 AM
  #30
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Panthers won't give up Ellerby for that crappy proposal...

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Old
06-25-2009, 05:23 AM
  #31
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Pretty typical, awful proposal for the Panthers.

We get a lower first round pick, add Jones who has NEGATIVE value with a terrible contract, and Kaberle who's best years are behind him.

We lose a higher first round pick which could be Moore/Kassian/Schroeder etc., a top prospect who was a 1st round pick a couple years ago, JayBo's rights which could be equated to Lupul and a pick, and a 3rd round pick.

So hypothetically we're giving up 1st 09, Moore, Ellerby, Lupul, probably 3rd or 4th round pick, and a 3rd round pick.

Ummm how bout no.

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Old
06-25-2009, 07:57 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
To the Panthers (and again I AM speaking for THEIR fans here so they may actually feel differently), Ellerby + Lupul + 3rd >> Kaberle + 3rd (or without that 3rd in the revised proposal as it was shifted to the Flyers). Also note that I based this off the idea that Fla keeps their 1st this year and Tor gets the Flyers 1st (makes much more sense to me than for Fla to give up J-Bo's right AND have to trade down in the draft not to mention giving up a solid prospect all just for a dman wo wont stay with them for more than 2 years).
Haha ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
Pretty typical, awful proposal for the Panthers.

We get a lower first round pick, add Jones who has NEGATIVE value with a terrible contract, and Kaberle who's best years are behind him.

We lose a higher first round pick which could be Moore/Kassian/Schroeder etc., a top prospect who was a 1st round pick a couple years ago, JayBo's rights which could be equated to Lupul and a pick, and a 3rd round pick.

So hypothetically we're giving up 1st 09, Moore, Ellerby, Lupul, probably 3rd or 4th round pick, and a 3rd round pick.

Ummm how bout no.
No need to make up stuff even though you hate the Leafs.

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Old
06-25-2009, 08:22 AM
  #33
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This is pretty bad for Florida....
1) The first is conditional upon the signing of JBo. I would like to point out that the draft is TOMORROW, and therefore JBo probably wouldn't be signed in time and the pick would be in 2010, a draft that will not likely be as deep.

2) The Panthers have said that they want a conditional first for JBo. Seems like what the Flyers are doing in this trade. So when you take out that piece, what you have left is:
Ellerby, 14th overall, 3rd round pick for Kaberle and Jones. Jones has little to no value, so Florida is basically giving up Ellerby, their best prospect, and the 14th overall for Kaberle. Massive overpayment. Yes, Burke has said he wants a top prospect +, but that is why Kaberle is still a Leaf.

I am not knocking Kaberle, he is a very good player, but he has 2 years left on his deal and is getting two top prospects for him.

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Old
06-25-2009, 08:58 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Haha ok.



No need to make up stuff even though you hate the Leafs.
You're right. I meant possible Norris candidate Kaberle.

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Old
06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Haha ok.



No need to make up stuff even though you hate the Leafs.

A typical clueless Leafs fan that believes Kaberle is the second coming of Christ to every team. Did I ever say that those guys were better than Kaberle??? NO, I didn't. I'll say it again since you obviously can't read and I'll explain it because you obviouls can't comprehend what is written.

TO THE PANTHERS, Lupul + Ellerby + 3rd >> Kaberle. Do you got that??? We are talking about the Panters, not the Leafs or a cup contender, the Panters.

Now what this MEANS is that the Panters will most likely be a team NOT as good as they were last year with the departure of Boumeester and they weren't even a playoff team with J-Bo on the roster last year. Sorry to burst your bubble here boy but J-Bo >>> Kaberle and replacing J-Bo with Kaberle doesn't make the Panters better and suddenly a playoff team next year. I don't thinkthat anyone in Florida has any allusions that Kaberle would sign an extension to stay there after his remaining 2 years are finished on his current contract. Thus, in 2 years the Panthers would be right back where they are now with a dman wo is older than J-Bo and not nearly as good or as valuable in a trade and the one piece they got in the J-Bo trade was leaving with them facing the probablility of getting little to nothing for his rights. On top of that the OP had the Panthers trading DOWN in the draft and giving up Ellerby for just 2 years of Kaberle. That's just plain stupid but I don't expect you to get it, you only see things from your blue Leafs colored glasses as you have shown repeatedly in oter threads.

The Panters will be MUCH better off to have Lupul + Ellerby + 3rd LONG TERM than to have Kaberle for just 2 years. THAT'S the point. Any sane person would understand this.

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Old
06-25-2009, 10:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
A typical clueless Leafs fan that believes Kaberle is the second coming of Christ to every team. Did I ever say that those guys were better than Kaberle??? NO, I didn't. I'll say it again since you obviously can't read and I'll explain it because you obviouls can't comprehend what is written.

TO THE PANTHERS, Lupul + Ellerby + 3rd >> Kaberle. Do you got that??? We are talking about the Panters, not the Leafs or a cup contender, the Panters.

Now what this MEANS is that the Panters will most likely be a team NOT as good as they were last year with the departure of Boumeester and they weren't even a playoff team with J-Bo on the roster last year. Sorry to burst your bubble here boy but J-Bo >>> Kaberle and replacing J-Bo with Kaberle doesn't make the Panters better and suddenly a playoff team next year. I don't thinkthat anyone in Florida has any allusions that Kaberle would sign an extension to stay there after his remaining 2 years are finished on his current contract. Thus, in 2 years the Panthers would be right back where they are now with a dman wo is older than J-Bo and not nearly as good or as valuable in a trade and the one piece they got in the J-Bo trade was leaving with them facing the probablility of getting little to nothing for his rights. On top of that the OP had the Panthers trading DOWN in the draft and giving up Ellerby for just 2 years of Kaberle. That's just plain stupid but I don't expect you to get it, you only see things from your blue Leafs colored glasses as you have shown repeatedly in oter threads.

The Panters will be MUCH better off to have Lupul + Ellerby + 3rd LONG TERM than to have Kaberle for just 2 years. THAT'S the point. Any sane person would understand this.
So you call me stupid then make stuff up. Cool. You also said the Leafs should get the 21st overall instead. Sorry this isn't a giveaway.

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Old
06-25-2009, 10:10 AM
  #37
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Burke traded Lupul when he was in Anaheim, I don't see him bringing him back.

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Old
06-25-2009, 10:12 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
TO THE PANTHERS, Lupul + Ellerby + 3rd >> Kaberle. Do you got that??? We are talking about the Panters, not the Leafs or a cup contender, the Panters.
We all got it, but you're wrong. The Panthers aren't going into a rebuild, so veteran talent that can contribute right away is >> than futures.

The amount that you (among many others) overrate Bouwmeester here is baffling, the guy disappeared down the stretch when it counted and people are still lining up to sing his praises.

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Old
06-25-2009, 10:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
We all got it, but you're wrong. The Panthers aren't going into a rebuild, so veteran talent that can contribute right away is >> than futures.

The amount that you (among many others) overrate Bouwmeester here is baffling, the guy disappeared down the stretch when it counted and people are still lining up to sing his praises.
He's one of those guys that overvalues the future over the present.

I think it's a good deal. Kaberle still has plenty of prime years and gets to play with McCabe. Florida also has 2 years to sign an extension with him. He's a very good replacement for Bouwmeester instead of waiting for Ellerby to develop.

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Old
06-25-2009, 10:42 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble here boy but J-Bo >>> Kaberle and replacing J-Bo with Kaberle doesn't make the Panters better and suddenly a playoff team next year. I don't thinkthat anyone in Florida has any allusions that Kaberle would sign an extension to stay there after his remaining 2 years are finished on his current contract.
The Panthers weren't that far off the playoffs. If their young players continue to progress, and if Kaberle rekindled his chemistry with McCabe, I can see them making the playoffs.

Kaberle isn't one to move around much, and he doesn't seem to care that much about making the absolute top dollar. If he likes Florida, he will stay in Florida. He could very well find the lack of media attention refreshing... and he may just like the weather. Perhaps he finds a niche in mentoring the young Czechs on the team.. who knows. You definitely shouldn't write it off as inevitable and then use it in your argument.

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Old
06-25-2009, 11:30 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
We all got it, but you're wrong. The Panthers aren't going into a rebuild, so veteran talent that can contribute right away is >> than futures.

The amount that you (among many others) overrate Bouwmeester here is baffling, the guy disappeared down the stretch when it counted and people are still lining up to sing his praises.
We're not rebuilding, but we're not gonna contend for the cup for a while either. If Kaberle goes, its gonna be to a team that thinks they can win it all.

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Old
06-25-2009, 11:44 AM
  #42
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what about...

Kaberle + Ponikarovsky OR Stajan

for

1st + Mattias OR markstrom

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Old
06-25-2009, 11:45 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
We're not rebuilding, but we're not gonna contend for the cup for a while either. If Kaberle goes, its gonna be to a team that thinks they can win it all.
Then what are you doing? Sounds like a dumb plan to me.

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Old
06-25-2009, 11:58 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Then what are you doing? Sounds like a dumb plan to me.
We're in the middle. We're planning for the future, we're not in a full rebuild like the Leafs

But thanks for the smart comment.

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06-25-2009, 12:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
We're in the middle. We're planning for the future, we're not in a full rebuild like the Leafs

But thanks for the smart comment.
"Planning for the future"? Still dumb. Try again.

Since when are we in full rebuild? Nothing has happened as of yet. Might want to brush up on your hockey knowledge.

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:27 PM
  #46
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Nice proposal, but Florida can't get the 21st pick this year conditionally, because it would mean that the flyers would have to sign him before the time that pick was made.(because then they know for sure they're getting jay). it would be the 1st next year conditionally

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:30 PM
  #47
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The Flyers get a number one defenseman and a top six forward for a top six forward plus scraps.

They have to add.
They get the rights to a number one defenseman

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
"Planning for the future"? Still dumb. Try again.

Since when are we in full rebuild? Nothing has happened as of yet. Might want to brush up on your hockey knowledge.
You're not? lol ok.

Let's take a look at what valuable assets you have.

1) Kaberle
2) Kubina
3) Schenn
4) Grabovski
5) Kulemin/Tlusty
6) and the 7th overall

Sorry but, full rebuild mode looks like its in effect. You have an awful prospect pool. No good D, Forward, or goaltending prospects. Your 2 best defenders are getting old and you guys are ready to give away your top goalie prospect.

Good luck. Looking forward to your next witty comment.

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Old
06-25-2009, 01:03 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Biggzy View Post
You're not? lol ok.

Let's take a look at what valuable assets you have.

1) Kaberle
2) Kubina
3) Schenn
4) Grabovski
5) Kulemin/Tlusty
6) and the 7th overall

Sorry but, full rebuild mode looks like its in effect. You have an awful prospect pool. No good D, Forward, or goaltending prospects. Your 2 best defenders are getting old and you guys are ready to give away your top goalie prospect.

Good luck. Looking forward to your next witty comment.
No more witty comments. Just comments that point out your lack of knowledge:

1) Burke said he would try and make the playoffs next year. There goes your ignorant "full rebuild" remark.
2) We will be spending to the cap.
3) Our prospect pool is fine, especially with the signing of college free agents and the probable signing of Jonas Gustavsson.
4) If age 31 and 32 for two top pairing defencemen are "getting old" then you are dumber than I thought.

Now run along.

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Old
06-25-2009, 01:06 PM
  #50
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I definitely could live with that.

Kaberle
Poni
3rd

for

Florida's 1st
Lupul
Ellerby
this

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