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Old
06-25-2009, 12:12 PM
  #26
8inblack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Giguere only has 2 years and is much easier to move. One bad season doesn't make Giguere a salary dump, he has been a league top10/top5 goalie for years.
I know I didn't look at how long Horcoff's deal was. I'm not saying Giguere is a salary dump. I'm just saying that the Ducks would be better off getting rid of Giguere and signing a UFA instead of getting Horcoff. In fact signing a UFA and trading Giguere for Picks/Prospects might be the way to go.

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06-25-2009, 12:14 PM
  #27
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How about leave the picks out of it and make it Giggy for Penner? Or does a player accepting an offersheet burn bridges to his old team?

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06-25-2009, 12:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
How about leave the picks out of it and make it Giggy for Penner? Or does a player accepting an offersheet burn bridges to his old team?
Hell no. Penner is marginally better then Christensen. Once again the Ducks have better options in UFA.

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06-25-2009, 12:25 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
How about leave the picks out of it and make it Giggy for Penner? Or does a player accepting an offersheet burn bridges to his old team?
Hell no. Let Penner rot in Edmonton.

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06-25-2009, 12:33 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Hell no. Let Penner rot in Edmonton.
Yep. I don't want a 4M 40 pt player in my lineup.

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8inblack View Post
Hell no. Penner is marginally better then Christensen. Once again the Ducks have better options in UFA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Hell no. Let Penner rot in Edmonton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
Yep. I don't want a 4M 40 pt player in my lineup.
Hahaha, so you guys aren't fans of Big Pen(i)s..

I think he would be a lot closer to 30+30 than 20+20 when reunited with the twins. Granted, he makes a lot of money but he has proven chemistry with Getz and Perry and would allow us to put Stephenson on the 2nd line thus allowing Ebbett to be the 3rd best player on a scoring line which i think he is capable of. Would also save almost 2 mil in cap spacew which could turn out to be a re-signed Beauchemin.

I can't blame Dustin for taking 4.25 instead of 2.7. I would've taken it too without thinking twice.

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06-25-2009, 12:47 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Hahaha, so you guys aren't fans of Big Pen(i)s..

I think he would be a lot closer to 30+30 than 20+20 when reunited with the twins. Granted, he makes a lot of money but he has proven chemistry with Getz and Perry and would allow us to put Stephenson on the 2nd line thus allowing Ebbett to be the 3rd best player on a scoring line which i think he is capable of. Would also save almost 2 mil in cap spacew which could turn out to be a re-signed Beauchemin.

I can't blame Dustin for taking 4.25 instead of 2.7. I would've taken it too without thinking twice.
Stephonson????

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Old
06-25-2009, 12:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Hahaha, so you guys aren't fans of Big Pen(i)s..

I think he would be a lot closer to 30+30 than 20+20 when reunited with the twins. Granted, he makes a lot of money but he has proven chemistry with Getz and Perry and would allow us to put Stephenson on the 2nd line thus allowing Ebbett to be the 3rd best player on a scoring line which i think he is capable of. Would also save almost 2 mil in cap spacew which could turn out to be a re-signed Beauchemin.

I can't blame Dustin for taking 4.25 instead of 2.7. I would've taken it too without thinking twice.
Sure, I can't blame him either. But in return he can't blame us for not wanting to touch his contract he signed elsewhere. He's worth $2 mio tops and there should be many players available cheap that get 20+20 and more playing with Getzlaf and Perry.

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06-25-2009, 12:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Sure, I can't blame him either. But in return he can't blame us for not wanting to touch his contract he signed elsewhere. He's worth $2 mio tops and there should be many players available cheap that get 20+20 and more playing with Getzlaf and Perry.
I think a GM needs to be a professional in these things. Fans can hate players all they want (Christensen myself) but a GM has to look at the teams best interest.

Also, cheap 20+20 guys can not be acquired by giving Giguere's 6M contract.

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06-25-2009, 01:03 PM
  #35
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Fact: Bobby Ryan is locked on the 1st line, so Penner wouldn't be reunited with the twins anyways.

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Old
06-25-2009, 01:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Yeah, the swap of two years of a bad contract for six years of a bad contract isnt worth moving up only five spots. Horcoff is a third line center making 1st line center money.
His cap hit was 3.6 million last year, and who on the Ducks would play second line centre over Horcoff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
I think Giggy has a better track record over the long haul, which will give him better value. Horcoff, is...well, way overpaid and doesn't produce. Is he the right fit for Selanne next year? Probably not. So I'd say no on behalf of the Ducks. Moving up 5 picks won't do great justice either tbh.
I'd rather pay a 3rd line centre 5.5 million then pay a back up goaltender 6 million.
Horcoff hasnt been overpaid yet.
I don't like the odds of Horcoff acutally earning his salary starting this season, but I still wouldnt do this deal. This trade would leave the Oilers with a huge hole on the penalty kill....unless goals and assists is the only way you judge production

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06-25-2009, 01:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
Fact: Bobby Ryan is locked on the 1st line, so Penner wouldn't be reunited with the twins anyways.
Oh, I don't think Ryan's locked there at all. It all depends on the material we'll have for the top6 spots.

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06-25-2009, 01:11 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
I think a GM needs to be a professional in these things. Fans can hate players all they want (Christensen myself) but a GM has to look at the teams best interest.

Also, cheap 20+20 guys can not be acquired by giving Giguere's 6M contract.
I just don't believe it would be in our interest at all to get Penner's contract. Even if return is limited, I think we should be able to do better for Giguere. Who I don't see traded immediately, anyway, since there probably won't be an immediate necessity.

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06-25-2009, 01:16 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
His cap hit was 3.6 million last year, and who on the Ducks would play second line centre over Horcoff?



I'd rather pay a 3rd line centre 5.5 million then pay a back up goaltender 6 million.
Horcoff hasnt been overpaid yet.
I don't like the odds of Horcoff acutally earning his salary starting this season, but I still wouldnt do this deal. This trade would leave the Oilers with a huge hole on the penalty kill....unless goals and assists is the only way you judge production
at $5.5 mil for 6 years it is. HA!

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Old
06-25-2009, 01:18 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Oh, I don't think Ryan's locked there at all. It all depends on the material we'll have for the top6 spots.
I agree. If we can get a young LWer who complements Getz/Perry it may be smart to have 2 real lines seen as scoring threats instead of one mega line.

Ideally:

X - Getz - Perry
Ryan - Koivu - Selanne

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06-25-2009, 01:19 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I just don't believe it would be in our interest at all to get Penner's contract. Even if return is limited, I think we should be able to do better for Giguere. Who I don't see traded immediately, anyway, since there probably won't be an immediate necessity.
You don't think there are better and cheaper options than Giguere?
Fernandez, Craig Anderson, Roloson, Khabibulin, Biron, Niittymaki, Clemmensen, and Harding all put up better numbers than Giguere, will be a lot cheaper, and cost zero assets to acquire

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06-25-2009, 01:24 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
You don't think there are better and cheaper options than Giguere?
Fernandez, Craig Anderson, Roloson, Khabibulin, Biron, Niittymaki, Clemmensen, and Harding all put up better numbers than Giguere, will be a lot cheaper, and cost zero assets to acquire
Of course I know them. And yes, they did put up better numbers last year, but that's not the whole story. I expect the Ducks to not move Giguere at least until midway through the season, since there probably won't be as much of an urgency to just get rid of him. And in case he is traded I'm pretty sure it will be for a better return than just an exchange of bad contracts, especially on a player I consider as worthless as Penner...

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06-25-2009, 01:34 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
His cap hit was 3.6 million last year, and who on the Ducks would play second line centre over Horcoff?
Nobody and that's the reason Ducks are looking for one. Just someone without horrible contract like Horcoff's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'd rather pay a 3rd line centre 5.5 million then pay a back up goaltender 6 million.
Horcoff hasnt been overpaid yet.
The problem with your theory is that Giguere is not a back up goaltender. And even if were to become one, I much rather have a 6M back up goalie for 2 years than 5.5M 3rd liner for 6 years.

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unless goals and assists is the only way you judge production
Ever if Horcoff were the top PK player in the league, he's grossly overpaid at this point.

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06-25-2009, 01:37 PM
  #44
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Oh, I don't think Ryan's locked there at all. It all depends on the material we'll have for the top6 spots.
Likelihood of finding another suitor for the top line that can possibly put up 80-90 points next year? I know you're a ducks fan (I hope), but I'm in favor of adding more depth, than spreading the wealth. If you remember during the regular season, that line was just unstoppable for the last 15-20 regular season games when he was inserted in the LW spot. Hard to say no to what MacTavish called the next "Legion of Doom" line.

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06-25-2009, 01:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
You don't think there are better and cheaper options than Giguere?
Fernandez, Craig Anderson, Roloson, Khabibulin, Biron, Niittymaki, Clemmensen, and Harding all put up better numbers than Giguere, will be a lot cheaper, and cost zero assets to acquire
Sigh. Langenbrunner put up better numbers than Hemsky, I guess he's the more valuable player.

Seriously, Giguere is easily the best goalie of that bunch unless you believe that you can judge players value based on one season.

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06-25-2009, 01:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by c4rcy View Post
Likelihood of finding another suitor for the top line that can possibly put up 80-90 points next year? I know you're a ducks fan (I hope), but I'm in favor of adding more depth, than spreading the wealth. If you remember during the regular season, that line was just unstoppable for the last 15-20 regular season games when he was inserted in the LW spot. Hard to say no to what MacTavish called the next "Legion of Doom" line.
There is no doubt we (and that we is meant to clarify me being a Ducks fan) need to add to our forward core. However, it's tough to foresee what is going to be possible via free agency and the expected Pronger trade. Ryan works perfectly on a line with the twins, but he's looked good with Teemu, too, and give those two a good center - voilá, we have a line. After Getzlaf, Ryan is our best playmaker so I don't think it's that bad an idea to split those two up. If by October we have a two other guys making a great line with Teemu and we have the luxury of keeping Ryan with the twins, I'm all for that, but I'd say it really depends on how our search for those second line spots works out...

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06-25-2009, 02:00 PM
  #47
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Nobody and that's the reason Ducks are looking for one. Just someone without horrible contract like Horcoff's.



The problem with your theory is that Giguere is not a back up goaltender. And even if were to become one, I much rather have a 6M back up goalie for 2 years than 5.5M 3rd liner for 6 years.



Ever if Horcoff were the top PK player in the league, he's grossly overpaid at this point.
You state that Horcoff would be the second best centre on your team but then in the same post you call him a 3rd liner again. This leads me to believe you're just flaming players and have no regard for facts. Especially with the statement of having a guy sitting on the bench making 6 million is better than a guy playing 21 minutes a night for 5.5 million

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06-25-2009, 02:09 PM
  #48
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You state that Horcoff would be the second best centre on your team but then in the same post you call him a 3rd liner again. This leads me to believe you're just flaming players and have no regard for facts. Especially with the statement of having a guy sitting on the bench making 6 million is better than a guy playing 21 minutes a night for 5.5 million
Maybe he meant on a good NHL team he'd be a third line centre and on the Ducks he'd be second line centre? Being not a fan of either team, I say this is a fair deal. But I think ANA could get better. Horcoff has a HORRIBLE contract for SIX more years. Gigeure only has two left. Value wise Gigeure > Horcoff and I don't know if the pick swapping will change much.

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06-25-2009, 02:12 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
His cap hit was 3.6 million last year, and who on the Ducks would play second line centre over Horcoff?



I'd rather pay a 3rd line centre 5.5 million then pay a back up goaltender 6 million.
Horcoff hasnt been overpaid yet.
I don't like the odds of Horcoff acutally earning his salary starting this season, but I still wouldnt do this deal. This trade would leave the Oilers with a huge hole on the penalty kill....unless goals and assists is the only way you judge production
Did you notice where our pk was last year with Horcoff getting all those minutes? Freaking awful. Horcoff brings two things to the table. Decent faceoff guy, not elite but good. Pretty good defensvely. No physical play, bad special teams play, can generate no offense on his own.

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06-25-2009, 02:29 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
You state that Horcoff would be the second best centre on your team but then in the same post you call him a 3rd liner again. This leads me to believe you're just flaming players and have no regard for facts. Especially with the statement of having a guy sitting on the bench making 6 million is better than a guy playing 21 minutes a night for 5.5 million
First of all, you really need to pay more attention.

Being the 2nd best center in Ducks doesn't mean the player is a real 2nd line center. If the 2nd best center in Ducks was good enough to be a real 2nd line center, Ducks wouldn't be looking for one.

Secondly, having a 6M backup and a 5.5M 3rd line center are both bad situations. The difference is that you get out of Giguere's contract faster than you get out of Horcoff's.

But that's just academic speculation because Giguere is not a backup, not yet atleast.

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