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What do you want Gainey to do this UFA season? (Habs Trade/UFA/RFA proposals here)

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Old
06-01-2009, 11:59 AM
  #176
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The question should be:

Will top talent offensive UFA's be more tempted or less inclined to signing in Montreal with a known trap coach on board?

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06-01-2009, 11:59 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Who cares honestly, if Tanguay is not going to sign because of a coach, that means he thinks he's bigger than the team and I'd rather not have a player like that.
Oh boy.....

Tanguay wanted to know what direction the team was going to go before signing (witch is his right). What's wrong with that? Now that he knows we have an experienced coach this can only be a +. I hope he still wants to be here after the season we just had

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06-01-2009, 12:01 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
The question should be:

Will top talent offensive UFA's be more tempted or less inclined to signing in Montreal with a known trap coach on board?
Detroit isin't having alot of trouble signing top UFA's. BTW it's Jacques Martin, not Jacques Lemaire, go look at Yashin's stats when Martin was the coach in Ottawa

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06-01-2009, 12:01 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Oh boy.....

Tanguay wanted to know what direction the team was going to go before signing (witch is his right). What's wrong with that? Now that he knows we have an experienced coach this can only be a +. I hope he still wants to be here after the season we just had
I think he will. Last season was very strange and it could only be better this year.

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06-01-2009, 12:02 PM
  #180
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If Martin will truly play a defensive type game, Tanguay may be gone. In Calgary they switched to that type and Tanguay was used to play defense first, he did bad for him and then was traded here.

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06-01-2009, 12:03 PM
  #181
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Without a doubt...

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Old
06-01-2009, 12:19 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If Martin will truly play a defensive type game, Tanguay may be gone. In Calgary they switched to that type and Tanguay was used to play defense first, he did bad for him and then was traded here.
I don't think that Martin's style in Ottawa could always be classified as being *purely* defensive. He seems to instill a very good overall system which requires players to play responsibly. Some guys like Hossa and Alfredsson really learned a lot and became a couple of the more complete players in the game under him. Having a good overall team defensive structure often helps free up the more creative players on a team.

To me, Tanguay seems to have a pretty good hockey head on his shoulders and he might be just the kind of guy to be able to stay responsible and also get an offensive boost from Martin's style. I think the problem in Calgary with Keenan is that he wanted to make every player responsible for robust and aggressive play as well as defensive play. And Tanguay isn't really a robust or aggressive player. Tanguay likely wouldn't face that same requirement from Martin.

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06-01-2009, 12:25 PM
  #183
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Well, he's the same type of player that Havlat is/was, and Martin never shied away from giving him a ton of ice-time and offensive freedom.

It's definately a situation where Tanguay can flourish if we give him some good players to work with.

Wether he wants to play in such a situation is up to him. But there isn't much left for him to prove in the NHL, so playing in a special market with an up-and-coming team where he gets a lot of ice-time and can help the young ones grow into good players here in Montréal might entice him enough to sign a relatively long-term contract with a similar amount of money per year.

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06-01-2009, 12:42 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
If Martin will truly play a defensive type game, Tanguay may be gone. In Calgary they switched to that type and Tanguay was used to play defense first, he did bad for him and then was traded here.
Yes and no. Martin turned Hossa into a fantastic two-way player. He can get offensive players to score AND play defense -- something Tanguay already does. I don't see Martin using Tanguay as a checking forward -- unlike the 07-08 Flames, the Habs have plenty of players who can fill that role, and if they re-sign Tanguay, would use him as a core offensive guy.

In fact I could see Tanguay getting lots of plum icetime under Martin. Especially 5-on-5, which is exactly where Tanguay is at his best. Tanguay just seems to be Martin's type of player -- tons of hockey sense and responsible defensively.

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06-01-2009, 12:43 PM
  #185
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Tanguay yes but I don't see Martin wanting Kovalev on this team, but who knows.

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06-01-2009, 12:46 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
Tanguay yes but I don't see Martin wanting Kovalev on this team, but who knows.
That would be a blessing in disguise!

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06-01-2009, 12:54 PM
  #187
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Martin was a trap coach... in Florida.

Habs have way more offensive talent (especially with Tanguay onboard) than Florida had, the trap was the only way for a "good defense but no offense" team like Florida. If Martin can implement a system, ANY system then more power to him.

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06-01-2009, 09:36 PM
  #188
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Does anyone thinks the Islanders might present Higgins with an offer sheet? That Islanders first round pick next year would be something seriously to think about...


Also, now that Martin is the head coach and knowing his past relationship with them, I wonder if Havlat and/or Hossa might be more interested in signing with the Habs? To a lesser extent, the same could be asked for Chris Neil and Shane Hnidy to add some depth and toughness to the lineup.


Last edited by Fozz: 06-02-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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06-12-2009, 03:31 PM
  #189
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Is it just me....

But is the idea of re-grouping all UFA threads more a way of killing these threads (it is impossible to find a consistant line of discussion) then it is in organizing the forum?

Might as well just delete all the threads you think are clogging up the board. no?


Carry on.

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Old
06-18-2009, 04:11 PM
  #190
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Make A Salary Structure

With the new rumour of the Sedins' contract request, and the crazy UFA period opening soon, I decided to try this and wanted to see what you guys could legitimately come up with.

I assume a cap of 54 million, mainly because I expect in the next 2-3 years the cap will depress. Basically I wanted to do this conservatively since I think GMs are going to need some modicum of caution heading into this year.

My 22 man roster has 1 star centre, 1 great top defense pairing and a worthy goaltender. I kept a decent bit of leftover in case the cap goes down further or injuries pile up (not to mention the possibility of trade deadline upgrades).

I skewed a little towards a solid D and strength down the middle.


line 1 4.75m + 6m + 3m = 13.75m
line 2 1.75m + 3m + 3.5m = 8.25m
line 3 1.5m + 1.875m + 550K = 3.925m
line 4 750K + 1m + 550K = 2.3m

1 reserve 450K

F total = 28.675m

D1 6m + 4m = 10m
D2 3.25m + 1.5m = 4.75m
D3 1m + 650K = 1.65m

1 reserve 450K

D total = 16.85m

goaltending

5m starter
675K backup

total 5.675m

Total salary 51.2m
Cap left for injuries / callups / trades 2.8m

I was surprised at how hard it was to get down below 54m with the market prices being tossed around for guys like Bouwmeester, Komisarek, Sedins, etc. I also conclude that the balance on this roster is only really possible in a magical world where people make you you tell them they should. I haven't played Sega hockey in years so I'm not influenced by video game salary caps.

Would you do this differently? Post your own and let's see!

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Old
06-18-2009, 06:15 PM
  #191
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this website will help you refine your thoughts even more:
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...TL&season=0910

you can see the difference between salary and cap hit, look around the league at other team too... you might start to like the idea of long term contracts

i appreciate the idea of "future proofing" against the cap going down, but i don't see us leaving 6 million on our cap just cause it might go down the following year! you will get a better idea of what we should do if you base your numbers off what we actually have.


Last edited by nodice: 06-18-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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Old
06-18-2009, 06:30 PM
  #192
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Pretty sure I've seen that site before, thanks. I was just wondering if anyone here would distribute salaries differently? What changes would you make?

If you think I've been too conservative, that's cool. I'd be just as interested if people wanna try this out with a 56m cap too - I'm curious what the HF crowd comes up with.

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06-19-2009, 08:36 AM
  #193
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I'll try... heres my 23 man roster with 54 million cap space.

Actual names and lineup choises are for academic purposes only, so please dont argue with them, consider them as in place holders. Its very hard to guess anything without knowing for sure which players and agents are willing to play along the GM.

Tanguay Cammalleri Kostitsyn (5.5+5.5+3.25)
Higgins Koivu* D'Agostini (2.5+3.5+0.8) *"retirement contract" (3rd year at 1M)
Kostitsyn Plekanec Latendresse (0.8+2.5+1.5)
Chipchura Metropolit Lapierre (1.0+1.0+0.7)

+Laraque, veteran depth forward (1.5+0.5) (+Pacioretty & Maxwell start at the AHL)

Markov Komisarek (5.75+4.0)
Hamrlik Gorges (5.5+1.1)
UFA dman + Weber/O'byrne (1.5+0.9+0.9) (Carle & Subban start at the AHL)

Price Halak (2.2+0.8)

$53.2M

14th forward and 5th dman need to be one year contracts to provide (with Metropolit contract expiring) some breathing space for next year if and when the Cap comes down further.


Last edited by Marksman: 06-19-2009 at 08:50 AM.
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06-19-2009, 10:43 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
I'll try... heres my 23 man roster with 54 million cap space.

Actual names and lineup choises are for academic purposes only, so please dont argue with them, consider them as in place holders. Its very hard to guess anything without knowing for sure which players and agents are willing to play along the GM.

Tanguay Cammalleri Kostitsyn (5.5+5.5+3.25)
Higgins Koivu* D'Agostini (2.5+3.5+0.8) *"retirement contract" (3rd year at 1M)
Kostitsyn Plekanec Latendresse (0.8+2.5+1.5)
Chipchura Metropolit Lapierre (1.0+1.0+0.7)

+Laraque, veteran depth forward (1.5+0.5) (+Pacioretty & Maxwell start at the AHL)

Markov Komisarek (5.75+4.0)
Hamrlik Gorges (5.5+1.1)
UFA dman + Weber/O'byrne (1.5+0.9+0.9) (Carle & Subban start at the AHL)

Price Halak (2.2+0.8)

$53.2M

14th forward and 5th dman need to be one year contracts to provide (with Metropolit contract expiring) some breathing space for next year if and when the Cap comes down further.
Wow, very nice effort to tie this to a Habs-specific roster. We mya be in a spot of trouble if injuries hit, but you've actually got a realistic lineup going here. As you can see, it's quite difficult to come in under 54m -- pretty much any team doing it will have to rely on smallish contracts for their RFAs and some entry level stuff.

(Not to mention having very cheap goaltending!)

Now that you've tried it out, how competitive do you think this team would be? This squad isn't far different from what we iced last year. There's an argument out there that we still lack a top C (which I don't see Cammalleri really filling) but overall down the middle this team isn't bad at all.

We can all see from this lineup how hard it would be to put a large contact like Lecavalier or Hossa in..... let alone the Sedins.

Great work!

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06-19-2009, 11:18 AM
  #195
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You guys need to understand that Carey Price will need to sign a contract next year and the salary cap will be down too. Gainey has to deal with it and I hope he will sign some one year contract to 2-3 players. It will give some leeway ( word taked from google :S) to the team.

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06-19-2009, 11:31 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
You guys need to understand that Carey Price will need to sign a contract next year and the salary cap will be down too. Gainey has to deal with it and I hope he will sign some one year contract to 2-3 players. It will give some leeway ( word taked from google :S) to the team.
It's true TA, but for the purpose of doing this cap-cer-size it's just to make a lineup and say which cap-numbers you'd use at any position (and fit in a 54m cap). It doesn't have to be specific to a team's situation, it's completely theoretical.

Marksman did a great job taking the time to put actual Canadiens players into the mix

Try it out, it's harder than I thought!

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06-19-2009, 11:47 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Wow, very nice effort to tie this to a Habs-specific roster. We mya be in a spot of trouble if injuries hit, but you've actually got a realistic lineup going here. As you can see, it's quite difficult to come in under 54m -- pretty much any team doing it will have to rely on smallish contracts for their RFAs and some entry level stuff.

(Not to mention having very cheap goaltending!)

Now that you've tried it out, how competitive do you think this team would be? This squad isn't far different from what we iced last year. There's an argument out there that we still lack a top C (which I don't see Cammalleri really filling) but overall down the middle this team isn't bad at all.

We can all see from this lineup how hard it would be to put a large contact like Lecavalier or Hossa in..... let alone the Sedins.

Great work!
Thanks!

I dont think we were badly constructed team last year - we were just hit badly by injuries and off-ice issues. If you look at any team that made deep into postseason, they had luck with fewer important players getting hurt. None of them lost three of their five top veteran key guys and getting carried by young guys which tend to lead into inconsistency.

Cammalleri is there because we need help on PP (along with Weber joining the team) and to me he seems to be the best available choise out there that could be signed for more than one or two years. Even if he is another small center, I dont thing it matters so much as long as we have decent size on the wings. Anyhow, you could insert your own favourite player here... its just a name I threw there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
You guys need to understand that Carey Price will need to sign a contract next year and the salary cap will be down too. Gainey has to deal with it and I hope he will sign some one year contract to 2-3 players. It will give some leeway ( word taked from google :S) to the team.
Price will still be RFA next summer and unless he has huge breakout year he shouldnt be making much more than 3M for the next year. Only this time it will be his base salary, not the cap hit with signing bonuses, so the the difference is only a million or so. Giving him one year contract, Hamrlik and Laraque are off the books after two seasons (if not sooner).


Last edited by Marksman: 06-19-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
06-19-2009, 11:57 AM
  #198
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MODS: c'mon folks, this deserves its own thread..... it's not entirely Habs-specific, it's a SALARY CAP exercise to separate the men from the boys

It takes thought and time to complete and it's a shame to bury it here in this trainwreck FA thread.

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06-19-2009, 12:17 PM
  #199
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Thanks!

I dont think we were badly constructed team last year - we were just hit badly by injuries and off-ice issues. If you look at any team that made deep into postseason, they had luck with fewer important players getting hurt. None of them lost three of their five top veteran key guys and getting carried by young guys which tend to lead into inconsistency.

Cammalleri is there because we need help on PP (along with Weber joining the team) and to me he seems to be the best available choise out there that could be signed for more than one or two years. Even if he is another small center, I dont thing it matters so much as long as we have decent size on the wings. Anyhow, you could insert your own favourite player here... its just a name I threw there.
You could have easily taken the simple out and put Lang in there for a small contract, so I can't quibble at all with your choice of Cammalleri. In fact we'd be very hard-pressed to find a top C to put there for 5.5m

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06-19-2009, 04:53 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozz View Post
Does anyone thinks the Islanders might present Higgins with an offer sheet? That Islanders first round pick next year would be something seriously to think about...


Also, now that Martin is the head coach and knowing his past relationship with them, I wonder if Havlat and/or Hossa might be more interested in signing with the Habs? To a lesser extent, the same could be asked for Chris Neil and Shane Hnidy to add some depth and toughness to the lineup.

The islanders aren't gonna give Higgins an offersheet where the compensation would be their first round pick..

they will be near the bottom of the league with or without higgy

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