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Who has the better shot for Hall of Fame?

View Poll Results: Who has a better shot at the Hall?
Jere Lehtinen 11 7.75%
John Madden 0 0%
Martin St. Louis 14 9.86%
Zdeno Chara 58 40.85%
Vincent Lecavalier 43 30.28%
Milan Hejduk 2 1.41%
I see no possible Hall of Famers here. 14 9.86%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-25-2009, 04:22 PM
  #1
WingsFan95
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Who has the better shot for Hall of Fame?

I'm looking at players who have played more than ten seasons but are still iffy on Hall of Fame credentials but are possibilities.

Jere Lehtinen


His career numbers of 497 points in 817 games is not impressive.

But his +184 is 5th among active players and he is a 3 Time Frank Selke Trophy winner.

He also won the Cup with the Stars in 99 and made the Final in 2000.

In International Play for Finland he has the following:

1 Gold at World Championships
1 Silver and Two Bronze Olympic Medals
1 Silver for World Cup of Hockey
3 more Silver at World Championships


John Madden


Madden's claim to fame is his success on the Devils. The team has few offensive stars and the team is defense first, that said, Madden has helped the team to two Stanley Cup wins and another Final.

He's also only got 10 seasons so has more time to boost his appeal.

2001 Frank J. Selke Trophy Recipient.


Martin St. Louis


St. Louis has been the leader of the Lightning for some time, getting them a Cup Win in 2004.

He also won the Art Ross, Hart and Lester B Pearson that same season.

Total career 585 points in 690 regular season games.

World Cup Gold Medal
Has a World Championship Gold Medal and Two Silvers.


Zdeno Chara


Chara did not put up many points his first 4 seasons and his 3rd and 4th on the Islanders saw him get a -27 in back to back seasons.

However since then, he has been a defensive force.

He's 32 and could play ten more seasons.

Has 319 points in 767 games, considering 292 points have come in his last 536 games ( since leaving the Islanders ).

Named to 4 All Stars and Best Defenseman in 2009.


Vincent Lecavalier


669 Points in 787 regular season games.

Twice top ten in goals and points, one time goals leader.

One Stanley Cup in 04.

World Cup of Hockey Gold Medal

4 All Stars.


Milan Hejduk


657 career points in 783 regular season games.

One time goals leader.

Career +137

75 points in 109 playoff games including 1 Stanley Cup in 2001.

Olympic Gold Medal and Bronze Medal.

World Hockey Championship Gold Medal.

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Old
06-25-2009, 04:36 PM
  #2
Epsilon
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St. Louis as a Hart trophy winner has a good shot if he plays out a productive career. Anything close to 1000 points and I see him getting in.

Chara and Lecavalier are both on track to be strong candidates, although Lecavalier's uneven play could hurt him over the long run.

Everyone else is a no. I really like Jere Lehtinen but there are more accomplished defensive forwards who are still on the outside looking in and aren't likely to merit serious consideration any time soon (such as Guy Carbonneau).

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Old
06-25-2009, 04:40 PM
  #3
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Maybe only Lecavalier and Chara have a shot. But good work giving some credit to some players that might otherwise not have gotten any.

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06-25-2009, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
I really like Jere Lehtinen but there are more accomplished defensive forwards who are still on the outside looking in and aren't likely to merit serious consideration any time soon (such as Guy Carbonneau).
Guy Carbonneau will make the Hall of Fame eventually though, guy retired in 2000.

And I think Lehtinen will surpass him when he's done.

Carbonneau played 19 seasons and got 663 points and a +186.

With 3 Frank Selkes and 3 Cups.

Lehtinen has a +184 in 13 seasons and played his career in the dead puck era, otherwise he's have more than 497 points.

He is also 3 time Selke winner and has a Cup.

Plus the international accomplishments on team Finland.

I voted for Jere, he needs another Cup though.

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Old
06-25-2009, 04:51 PM
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The Kingslayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99wasnotthebest View Post
Guy Carbonneau will make the Hall of Fame eventually though, guy retired in 2000.

And I think Lehtinen will surpass him when he's done.

Carbonneau played 19 seasons and got 663 points and a +186.

With 3 Frank Selkes and 3 Cups.

Lehtinen has a +184 in 13 seasons and played his career in the dead puck era, otherwise he's have more than 497 points.

He is also 3 time Selke winner and has a Cup.

Plus the international accomplishments on team Finland.

I voted for Jere, he needs another Cup though.
Thats pretty damn good...I was lookin at Forsbergs stats on TSN and he had a +242 over his career.

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06-25-2009, 04:52 PM
  #6
TheDevilMadeMe
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Chara = probable
St. Louis & Lecavalier = possible, depends on the rest of their careers.
Lehtinen = unlikely
Hejduk & Madden = definitely not

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06-25-2009, 05:15 PM
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La Cosa Nostra
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I can see Vinny Lecavalier making it to the hall, he was a former #1 overall pick, cup winner etc. and will most likely have the credentials.The others have very little chance, including Chara.

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06-25-2009, 07:14 PM
  #8
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Zdeno Chara

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06-25-2009, 11:15 PM
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Frankie Spankie
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Could have mentioned that Chara won a Norris.

I think the two best chances are Chara and Lecavalier. I think they're both pretty much equal but for the sake of not being a homer, I'll vote for Vinny.

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06-26-2009, 12:52 AM
  #10
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I wish Hejduk but id say Chara I guess?

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06-26-2009, 06:13 AM
  #11
darko
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Lehtinen = No
Madden = No
St Louis = Highly unlikely
Chara = Probable
Lecavalier = Probable
Hejduk = Highly unlikely

I think Chara and Lecavalier (29) have somewhat of a shot at getting in. Still, I dont like their chances. If I had to pick one i would say Lecavalier because of his age.

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Old
06-26-2009, 08:12 AM
  #12
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For those voting Chara I think have lost the plot. He might go in under the vetren catagory--but not as part of the yearly 4 players.

How many Norris trophies--1
Stanley cup?
Points?
NHL MVP awards?

There is nothing in his stats that stand out that make him note worthy and until he starts get his trophy filled a lot more.

Winning ONE norris trophy does not get you into the hall of fame

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06-26-2009, 09:36 AM
  #13
tony d
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Out of those players it's Lecavlier. Maybe have a couple 100 point seasons will seal the deal for him.

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Old
06-26-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
For those voting Chara I think have lost the plot. He might go in under the vetren catagory--but not as part of the yearly 4 players.

How many Norris trophies--1
Stanley cup?
Points?
NHL MVP awards?

There is nothing in his stats that stand out that make him note worthy and until he starts get his trophy filled a lot more.

Winning ONE norris trophy does not get you into the hall of fame
Good thing Scott Stevens had all those "points" and "Norris trophies" and "NHL MVP awards".


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06-26-2009, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Good thing Scott Stevens had all those "points" and "Norris trophies" and "NHL MVP awards".

Scott Stevens scored 900 points didn't he?

Anyways even though I don't think he will be in the hall of fame I think Zdeno Chara has the highest probability of getting into the hall of fame.

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06-26-2009, 01:39 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Scott Stevens scored 900 points didn't he?

Anyways even though I don't think he will be in the hall of fame I think Zdeno Chara has the highest probability of getting into the hall of fame.
Not only that but he never had a minus season and had a +/- of over 400 if you include playoffs.

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06-26-2009, 03:38 PM
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St. Louis not making it would be highly unprecedented. Only one scoring champ isn't in the Hall (Herb Cain) and only two MVPs aren't in the Hall. (Tommy Anderson and Al Rollins). St. Louis has both, plus a 1st team, 2nd team and 3rd team all-star and was a key contributor on a Cup winner. (And badly outplayed Lecavalier in said Cup run.)

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06-26-2009, 05:50 PM
  #18
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Chara and Lecavalier. St. Louis will have to step up greatly.

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06-26-2009, 06:04 PM
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chara, st louis are my picks for potential hall of famers.

The rest are unlikely to make the hall of fame in my humble opinion. not enough peak seasons for lecavalier in terms of being in the top 10 in points and goals scored. really the only hall of fame type season vinny has amassed came in 07 and maybe 08. now the key for him is he has plenty of time left and returning from the injury as the same player will give him a good shot.


Last edited by yada: 06-27-2009 at 02:29 AM.
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06-26-2009, 06:35 PM
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None of these players would make it based on current achievement, but I think Chara, Lecavalier and St-Louis will have enough on their resumes by the time their careers are over to make it in, with Chara the most likely of the candidates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
St. Louis not making it would be highly unprecedented. Only one scoring champ isn't in the Hall (Herb Cain) and only two MVPs aren't in the Hall. (Tommy Anderson and Al Rollins). St. Louis has both, plus a 1st team, 2nd team and 3rd team all-star and was a key contributor on a Cup winner. (And badly outplayed Lecavalier in said Cup run.)
Agreed. I don't quite understand what seems to be the consensus on these two players. How exactly does Lecavalier's career compare favorably to St-Louis' career?

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06-26-2009, 06:42 PM
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How does Lecavalier have (alot) more votes then St. Louis. :

Being a former 1st overall means nothing. Having talent means nothing. It's using the talent, performance and results that matter.

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06-26-2009, 10:20 PM
  #22
Hockey Outsider
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Chara has finished in the top five in Norris voting four times, which is the "50/50" category.

PLAYER FIRST SECOND THIRD FOURTH FIFTH TOTAL
Red Kelly 1 2 1 0 0 4
Scott Niedermayer 1 2 0 0 1 4
Doug Wilson 1 0 1 2 0 4
Mark Howe 0 3 0 0 1 4
Larry Murphy 0 0 2 1 1 4
Sergei Gonchar 0 0 0 3 1 4
Phil Housley 0 0 1 0 3 4
Serge Savard 0 0 0 1 3 4
Zdeno Chara 1 1 1 1 0 4

Players who are in (or likely to be in) the HOF:
- Red Kelly. Not a fair comparison as Kelly had three years as a first-team all-star, and one year as a second-team all-star. before the Norris was first awarded in 1954. To me that's the equivalent of being a eight-time Norris finalist. Kelly also has a vastly superior playoff resume.
- Scott Niedermayer. Basically has an identical Norris trophy voting record but also has a Conn Smythe and several strong playoff performances.
- Serge Savard. The best defensive defenseman of the 1970s; a Conn Smythe winner and key player on a dynasty team.
- Larry Murphy. Never quite the best but was very good for a long time. Also had a number of strong playoff performances.

The common theme? Of all the HOF defensemen with four top-five Norris finishes, they've all had multiple excellent playoff performances. So far, Chara hasn't had any exceptional playoffs. He definitely has time to add to his resume. A 5th season in the top-five in Norris voting would make him a likely HOFer; a 6th season would (by historical standards anyway) make him a guaranteed HOF player.

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06-27-2009, 02:26 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
Chara has finished in the top five in Norris voting four times, which is the "50/50" category.

PLAYER FIRST SECOND THIRD FOURTH FIFTH TOTAL
Red Kelly 1 2 1 0 0 4
Scott Niedermayer 1 2 0 0 1 4
Doug Wilson 1 0 1 2 0 4
Mark Howe 0 3 0 0 1 4
Larry Murphy 0 0 2 1 1 4
Sergei Gonchar 0 0 0 3 1 4
Phil Housley 0 0 1 0 3 4
Serge Savard 0 0 0 1 3 4
Zdeno Chara 1 1 1 1 0 4

Players who are in (or likely to be in) the HOF:
- Red Kelly. Not a fair comparison as Kelly had three years as a first-team all-star, and one year as a second-team all-star. before the Norris was first awarded in 1954. To me that's the equivalent of being a eight-time Norris finalist. Kelly also has a vastly superior playoff resume.
- Scott Niedermayer. Basically has an identical Norris trophy voting record but also has a Conn Smythe and several strong playoff performances.
- Serge Savard. The best defensive defenseman of the 1970s; a Conn Smythe winner and key player on a dynasty team.
- Larry Murphy. Never quite the best but was very good for a long time. Also had a number of strong playoff performances.

The common theme? Of all the HOF defensemen with four top-five Norris finishes, they've all had multiple excellent playoff performances. So far, Chara hasn't had any exceptional playoffs. He definitely has time to add to his resume. A 5th season in the top-five in Norris voting would make him a likely HOFer; a 6th season would (by historical standards anyway) make him a guaranteed HOF player.
With doug wilson recieving 4 top 5 norris finishes including a norris trophy why do you think hes not been selected? Ive read some debates in the history section about his selection/non selection but dont really remember getting a clear idea why hes been kept out?

Also wasnt gonchar one of the three finalists for the norris last season meaning he had at least one 2 or 3 place finish in the norris race?

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:47 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post
How does Lecavalier have (alot) more votes then St. Louis. :

Being a former 1st overall means nothing. Having talent means nothing. It's using the talent, performance and results that matter.
Agreed. It's easy to forget that for all his talent, Lecavalier only has like 2 elite seasons on his resume.

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Old
06-27-2009, 07:25 AM
  #25
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If Chara wins cup and few more Norris trophies i think he gets in. Lehtinen is one hell of a player but there is something missing that should take him to the hall of fame.

Others, probably not, atleast not what they have done so far.

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