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Is Darryl Sutter a good GM?

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Old
06-25-2009, 08:35 PM
  #1
Renegade Stylings
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Is Darryl Sutter a good GM?

Not flaming or anything, i just want a Flames fans perspective...

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06-25-2009, 08:41 PM
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I don't really think there is any doubt.

Good - absolutly.
Great is where you start having a debate. But there is no question he is a good GM.

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06-25-2009, 09:02 PM
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Yes. Absolutely.

He has given the Flames an identity. He has made our list of prospects a lot more NHL ready. And, he does everything he can to make the team competitive.

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06-25-2009, 09:07 PM
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he is good... but far from great... he is good for a rebuilding team... not so much for a team that should be contending

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06-25-2009, 09:22 PM
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Yes, I definitely think Darryl Sutter is a good GM.

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06-25-2009, 09:37 PM
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Good? I think he is because he is constantly trying to do something to improve the team. Whether he is successful is a debate right now.

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06-26-2009, 12:28 AM
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Renegade Stylings
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Just wondering mostly bc it doesnt seem like you guys have drafted very well over the past few years since he took over. U have very few top end prospects in the system. He runs many parts of your club, so i thought some ppl may be bitter about something like that.

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06-26-2009, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by abbyfan View Post
Just wondering mostly bc it doesnt seem like you guys have drafted very well over the past few years since he took over. U have very few top end prospects in the system. He runs many parts of your club, so i thought some ppl may be bitter about something like that.
We don't have many top-end prospects because aside from the ninth pick in 2003, which Sutter used to draft Phaneuf, the Flames have been drafting at 24th(twice), 25th, and 26th(twice). No Tavares' or Hedmans', but we have some solid prospects like Backlund, Irving, Nemisz, and Wahl.

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06-26-2009, 01:48 AM
  #9
Renegade Stylings
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Fair enough. Being an Avs fan i know how hard it is to restock when picking in the mid to late 20s.

Luckily my team has had some mid 1st rounders the last several years, and are really set up nicely to get three great players in the top 50 today.

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06-26-2009, 02:49 AM
  #10
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slightly above average such as flames standings last seasons. sometimes he makes good trades like Kiprusoff, Bourque, sometimes not (Aucoin, Ference,Kobasew - stuart, priemau, Lombardi-Jokinen).

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06-26-2009, 03:12 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by debil View Post
slightly above average such as flames standings last seasons. sometimes he makes good trades like Kiprusoff, Bourque, sometimes not (Aucoin, Ference,Kobasew - stuart, priemau, Lombardi-Jokinen).
on what ****ing planet was the Aucoin trade not so good?... we traded Zyuzin for a player who could log minutes and put up points

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06-26-2009, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by debil View Post
slightly above average such as flames standings last seasons. sometimes he makes good trades like Kiprusoff, Bourque, sometimes not (Aucoin, Ference,Kobasew - stuart, priemau, Lombardi-Jokinen).
Aucoin was a bad trade?

We traded our 7th defenceman for a guy who was on our shutdown pairing and put up 30+ points each year in his time with the Flames. Not close to a bad trade, rather a good one.

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Old
06-26-2009, 05:01 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by abbyfan View Post
Just wondering mostly bc it doesnt seem like you guys have drafted very well over the past few years since he took over. U have very few top end prospects in the system. He runs many parts of your club, so i thought some ppl may be bitter about something like that.
He decided to go with hometown thuds instead of talent earlier on and it didnt work out. The strategy changes a little bit lately but it is still early to see. (Backlund etc)

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06-26-2009, 05:42 AM
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soulj43r
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Originally Posted by abbyfan View Post
Just wondering mostly bc it doesnt seem like you guys have drafted very well over the past few years since he took over. U have very few top end prospects in the system. He runs many parts of your club, so i thought some ppl may be bitter about something like that.
Well it's kind of hard to draft top-end prospects when you are mostly drafting in the 20s. We got lucky with Backlund who was touted as a top 10 pick but dropped a LOT because of the knee injury he had. He is our only top end prospect on the system and is projected to be a 1st line center for us.

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06-26-2009, 07:33 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by soulj43r View Post
Well it's kind of hard to draft top-end prospects when you are mostly drafting in the 20s. We got lucky with Backlund who was touted as a top 10 pick but dropped a LOT because of the knee injury he had. He is our only top end prospect on the system and is projected to be a 1st line center for us.
his drafting has been pretty average... '03 was forgetable except Phaneuf... '04 was the complete opposite of '03 (good later but not great 1st rounder)... '05 was a pretty bad draft all around... '06 we got Irving and pretty much nothing else... '07 & '08 are both looking very good IMO... he has really picked it up the past 2 drafts... but in the previous 4 he was average at best

2003 - 324 career games:
9th - Dion Phaneuf - 323gp - great pick - but lets be fair almost every 1st rounder from that draft is a solid NHL player... it was like shooting fish in a barrel
39th - Tim Ramholt - 1gp - brutal pick... pased up other 2nd rounders like Carle & Weber (assuming he would have still drafted a defenseman)
112th - Jamie Tardiff - 0gp- who?

2004 - 180 career games:
24th - Kris Chucko - 2gp - not really a great pick, he was taken higher than expected... a guy like Bolland who had actually played in the CHL instead of the BCJHL would have been a much better choice and plays a similar game
70th - Brandon Prust - 46 games - again not a great pick, but not horrible... you would think he would have been available later in the draft or at the very least another energy guy
98th - Dustin Boyd - 132gp - good pick for the last pick in the 3rd round
118th - Aki Seitsonen - 0gp - complete bust... won't ever play an NHL game

2005 - 5 career games:
26th - Matt Pelech - 5gp - the only reason Sutter took him so high was his size... and with Vlasic going just a few spots later you have to wonder if Sutter didn't pick him because he is french... let's face it Pelech had 16 career OHL points when he was drafted... for any 1st round defender that is brutally low
69th - Gord Baldwin - 0gp - meh... I had been hoping for Danny Syvret... but that wouldn't have panned out too greatly either
74th - Daniel Ryder - 0gp - talk about a disaster... but no one saw this coming
111th - JD Watt - 0gp - I was excited about this pick... thought he would turn int o the guy Prust became but he really stepped back after ebing drafted

2006 - 0 career games:
26th - Leland Irving - 0gp - I loved this pick and still do... he is progressing nicely
87th - John Armstrong - 0gp - no one drafted after him has seem more than 5 or 6 games in the NHL except Dorsett who was just a good late pick for CBJ
118th - Hugo Carpentier - 0gp - like i said 3rd and beyond sucked in '06 but he can;t even handle being an AHL regular

2007 - 4 career games:
24th - Mikael Backlund - 1gp - good pick at the time I was upset he traded down instead of picking Esposito
70th - John Negrin - 3gp - very good pick IMO
116th - Keith Aulie - 0gp - alnother very good pick IMO asa he has really started to come along

2008 - 0 career games:
26th - Greg Nemisz - 0gp - good pick... was pretty upset at the time for trading down... I REALLY wanted Sbisa as a Flame (for what are now pretty obvious reasons)
48th - Mitch Wahl - 0gp - looking like a pretty good pick... I woudl have picked Staal but its looking like Wahl is the better pick
78th - Lance Bouma - 0gp - this pick could turn out to be good, a little too soon to tell IMO... he could turn out to be a Prust like player...which I guess could be worse... reminds me alot of Watt though so let's wait and see
114th - TJ Broadie - 0gp - this is looking like another good mid round pick of a defenseman

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06-26-2009, 08:47 AM
  #16
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Sutter is an above-average GM as mentioned. Lunatik provides a good rundown of his drafting history, which is average and maybe below average compared to other GMs.

He has a knack for making under-the-radar moves, such as the acquisitions of Bourque, Glencross, and Kiprusoff.

He hasn't been very good at negotiating contract extensions, however, in particular with role players. Jim Vandermeer, Rhett Warrener, Wayne Primeau, Anders Eriksson, and others have been or are overpaid, and they could easily be replaced by younger, cheaper players.

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06-26-2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debil View Post
slightly above average such as flames standings last seasons. sometimes he makes good trades like Kiprusoff, Bourque, sometimes not (Aucoin, Ference,Kobasew - stuart, priemau, Lombardi-Jokinen).

The Aucoin and Lombardi-Jokinen trades were great trades. It's too bad the Flames were not able to re-sign Stuart, otherwise that would have been a good trade too.

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06-26-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by StreakingRed View Post
The Aucoin and Lombardi-Jokinen trades were great trades. It's too bad the Flames were not able to re-sign Stuart, otherwise that would have been a good trade too.
Not sure about the Jokinen deal...may be good deal at the time but now not too good...Lombardi stepped up and Jokinen was kinda up and down...he is gone by end of the year and we lose a 1st pick on top of that.

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06-26-2009, 09:09 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Not sure about the Jokinen deal...may be good deal at the time but now not too good...Lombardi stepped up and Jokinen was kinda up and down...he is gone by end of the year and we lose a 1st pick on top of that.
Lombardi got more ice-time in a much lower pressure situation... it was ripe for him to do well... and unlike the Stuart deal we still have Jokinen for another year... this still has potential to be an excellent deal for us... and I would pick Jokinen over Lombardi/Prust and what will likely be a Pelech type prospect any day of the week

and it is an unfair assumtion that Jokinen is moved by year end... I personally think he will extend for either the same salary or a fraction less

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06-26-2009, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
Lombardi got more ice-time in a much lower pressure situation... it was ripe for him to do well... and unlike the Stuart deal we still have Jokinen for another year... this still has potential to be an excellent deal for us... and I would pick Jokinen over Lombardi/Prust and what will likely be a Pelech type prospect any day of the week

and it is an unfair assumtion that Jokinen is moved by year end... I personally think he will extend for either the same salary or a fraction less
right now i am not sure if it's a good or bad deal from what I have seen of Jokinen so far....if he returns to form consistently and especially if he comes back for another contract then it's a good deal for the Flames...but those are 2 Ifs....

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06-26-2009, 09:35 AM
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right now i am not sure if it's a good or bad deal from what I have seen of Jokinen so far....if he returns to form consistently and especially if he comes back for another contract then it's a good deal for the Flames...but those are 2 Ifs....
yes those are 2 ifs... but there is ifs on the bad side... you have to ask what if Lombardi performs like he did after the trade... you have to wonder if the 1st round pick will pan out... you also have to wonder if Lombardi stays in Phoenix beyond this season

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06-26-2009, 09:41 AM
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he is good... but far from great... he is good for a rebuilding team... not so much for a team that should be contending
Spot on sir.

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Old
06-26-2009, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander View Post
We don't have many top-end prospects because aside from the ninth pick in 2003, which Sutter used to draft Phaneuf, the Flames have been drafting at 24th(twice), 25th, and 26th(twice). No Tavares' or Hedmans', but we have some solid prospects like Backlund, Irving, Nemisz, and Wahl.
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Originally Posted by soulj43r View Post
Well it's kind of hard to draft top-end prospects when you are mostly drafting in the 20s. We got lucky with Backlund who was touted as a top 10 pick but dropped a LOT because of the knee injury he had. He is our only top end prospect on the system and is projected to be a 1st line center for us.
No offense to you two but I'm so tired of people thinking this. You can build good teams drafting in the 20s if you have a good staff.

When is last time Detroit had a top 15 pick? St. Louis has drafted Berglund, Oshie, Backes and Perron all after the 24th pick in recent years. Boston has built with 2nd round picks like Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron and astute free agent siginings like Wheeler, Wideman, Thomas and Ryder.

To answer the original question, Sutter is a good GM but not great. His drafting is overrated and he's been picking since 2003 and all we have to show for it is Dion, Boyd and Pardy if we keep him. I don't Sutter is capable of taking a team to the next level.

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06-26-2009, 12:58 PM
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No offense to you two but I'm so tired of people thinking this. You can build good teams drafting in the 20s if you have a good staff.

When is last time Detroit had a top 15 pick? St. Louis has drafted Berglund, Oshie, Backes and Perron all after the 24th pick in recent years. Boston has built with 2nd round picks like Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron and astute free agent siginings like Wheeler, Wideman, Thomas and Ryder.

To answer the original question, Sutter is a good GM but not great. His drafting is overrated and he's been picking since 2003 and all we have to show for it is Dion, Boyd and Pardy if we keep him. I don't Sutter is capable of taking a team to the next level.
Ok so St. Louis and Boston are two examples.

Lets just take a run through and look at how 'bad' Sutter has been when compared to his peers.

2004:

Calgary picks Chucko at spot 24

Then a full 20 picks after Calgary 14 other teams pick and two picks turn into NHL players, Green and Bolland. It's worth noting on the Green pick that Washington had the 27th and 29th pick and didn't even pick Green with the 27th pick. Indicating how much LUCK factors into picks turning into players. You don't honestly think that if Washington had any idea that Green would turn into what he did that they wouldn't risk taking him with their first pick?

The larger point is that Sutter is with the 12 other teams who's late first rounders didn't work out. If we logically extend your point, only Washington and Chicago are good at drafting and the other teams stink.

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06-26-2009, 01:23 PM
  #25
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The larger point is that Sutter is with the 12 other teams who's late first rounders didn't work out. If we logically extend your point, only Washington and Chicago are good at drafting and the other teams stink.
No, you are just comparing one draft.

not sure why there is so much argument....The Flames and Sutter are consistently at the bottom half as far as drafting and prospects.

People get sensitive around here but fact is the Flames are bad at drafting and they are not building via the draft.

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