HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Is Darryl Sutter a good GM?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-26-2009, 10:55 PM
  #26
Ronald Pagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
No, you are just comparing one draft.

not sure why there is so much argument....The Flames and Sutter are consistently at the bottom half as far as drafting and prospects.

People get sensitive around here but fact is the Flames are bad at drafting and they are not building via the draft.
Your schtick is so crappy.

You're right Flames are in the Bottom half. Know why? Because they've picked in the bottom half every year that Sutter has been GM except the first. How you can disassociate draft position with prospect depth is beyond me. Keep it up lumpy.

Ronald Pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2009, 11:36 PM
  #27
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Your schtick is so crappy.

You're right Flames are in the Bottom half. Know why? Because they've picked in the bottom half every year that Sutter has been GM except the first. How you can disassociate draft position with prospect depth is beyond me. Keep it up lumpy.
so what is your point genius?

I said their prospects rank in the bottom half in the NHL. Sutter rarely takes risk...he picks safe players...most of them are fillers with 3rd/4th line or 4th-6th potential. Like they say, you cant win a lottery unless you buy a ticket.

Does it matter where they draft? I dont buy into those excuses...Good drafting teams found those good players in the 2nd rounds or lower...Weber, Bergeron, Vlasic, Keith., Stastny, Perry....


Last edited by Flames 1st pick: 06-26-2009 at 11:42 PM.
Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 09:41 AM
  #28
bam09
Registered User
 
bam09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,952
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Your schtick is so crappy.

You're right Flames are in the Bottom half. Know why? Because they've picked in the bottom half every year that Sutter has been GM except the first. How you can disassociate draft position with prospect depth is beyond me. Keep it up lumpy.
You conceded 2 examples in St.Louis and Boston then you have Detroit.

So no actually it can be done, and the fact that you back tracked on your previous post is laughable.

According to most here Sutter is a great drafter, yet everyone alludes to the fact that he hasn't been in position to draft great players really. He could have drafted Josefson tonight who some had in there top 10.

The fact is Sutter isn't a very good drafter, but an average one.

And it screams I love mediocrity again. You want Sutter to achieve what is merely expected and are more than happy with that, even though we could do better.

bam09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 01:56 PM
  #29
Snoil11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 3,336
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Snoil11 Send a message via Yahoo to Snoil11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bam09 View Post
According to most here Sutter is a great drafter, yet everyone alludes to the fact that he hasn't been in position to draft great players really. He could have drafted Josefson tonight who some had in there top 10.
Judging by what I have read on this board, we must have a different definitions of "most" or "great" for your statement to be true.

Snoil11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 02:17 PM
  #30
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Dust Buster
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,812
vCash: 2403
I'm not here to say that Sutter is a great GM, but I believe that based on today's moves it shows he is definitely above average and shows he is a competent GM and does a good job in Calgary. A GM can only be expected to do so much. I think Sutter has assembled the best roster that he was capable of and if he can get Jbo, then koodo's to him. I have said this before, I slate Sutter in the top 5-10 best GM's in the league. Probably more around 9-10 though. He weakness I feel is drafting for sure, but as far as assembling a roster he is up their at the top. Hopefully Brent can get this group playing as an elite team now.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 11:36 AM
  #31
tsumetai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 178
vCash: 500
He has done everything he could do to address issues the Flames have had as a team. This did not always work out, but i don't think you can fault him. As a GM, it is his responsibility to bring in a coach and players that can form a competitive team on paper, from there, it is up to the coach and the players themselves to materialize.

In this respect, he is above average as he has assembled a core of players that took discounts (Iginla, Kipper, Regehr, Phaneuf but no discount there) and a good group of complementary players (GlenX, Moss, Boyd, Nystrom, Langkow, Conroy). I think that will be his greatest achievement.

He has seen where he has failed and has tried to rectify the situation so I feel he is still learning and will only get better as a GM.

tsumetai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 01:09 PM
  #32
Ronald Pagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
What do the draft haters say now after this draft? Lets hear it Dallas Flames Fan. Sutter went out of his way to draft skill this year.

Ronald Pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:18 PM
  #33
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
What do the draft haters say now after this draft? Lets hear it Dallas Flames Fan. Sutter went out of his way to draft skill this year.
because you can judge a draft 3 days later

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:32 PM
  #34
Ronald Pagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
Oh that doesn't stop all the typical posters from expressing their dismay with Flames drafting from previous years. The key critique of Sutter is that he doesn't draft skill and doesn't take any risks. Well he did that this draft.

Ronald Pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:39 PM
  #35
forzanerazzurri
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Hm hard to say. Hes made some really stupid moves, and hasnt made the farm system any better than the awful state its in now. Hasnt really made many great deals either. Hes a good hockey mind but i think his arrogance and outright stubborness (not knowing when to admit a mistake) are the worst things going for him.

Id say hes slightly above average but insanely overrated as a GM.

forzanerazzurri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:41 PM
  #36
Ronald Pagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Hm hard to say. Hes made some really stupid moves, and hasnt made the farm system any better than the awful state its in now. Hasnt really made many great deals either.
lol wut?

Ronald Pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:51 PM
  #37
OMA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by forzanerazzurri View Post
Hm hard to say. Hes made some really stupid moves, and hasnt made the farm system any better than the awful state its in now. Hasnt really made many great deals either. Hes a good hockey mind but i think his arrogance and outright stubborness (not knowing when to admit a mistake) are the worst things going for him.

Id say hes slightly above average but insanely overrated as a GM.
1. You realize that we didn't have our own farm system before Sutter right?

2. Kiprusoff for a 2nd. Bourque for a 2nd. Langkow for Gauthier and Saprykin. Cammalleri for Tanguay (give or take the 1sts), Tanguay for Leopold, Huselius for Montador..etc all say otherwise.

OMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:58 PM
  #38
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Oh that doesn't stop all the typical posters from expressing their dismay with Flames drafting from previous years. The key critique of Sutter is that he doesn't draft skill and doesn't take any risks. Well he did that this draft.
May be he heard me. I dont know what to make of this draft man.

Just on the record, my main problem with Sutter is with his drafting. I think he did a good job with trading and resigning players. I think he is a smart hockey person and I like his willingness to make changes. I am willing to give Sutter 1-2 more years to make it work.

I can live with Sutter...could have been worse with guys like Button and Risebrough...and Gainey lol

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 05:14 PM
  #39
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA View Post
1. You realize that we didn't have our own farm system before Sutter right?

2. Kiprusoff for a 2nd. Bourque for a 2nd. Langkow for Gauthier and Saprykin. Cammalleri for Tanguay (give or take the 1sts), Tanguay for Leopold, Huselius for Montador..etc all say otherwise.
we also gave up two 2nd round picks for Tanguay... then another to get Leopold back

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 05:18 PM
  #40
OMA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
we also gave up two 2nd round picks for Tanguay... then another to get Leopold back
True. That said, I would still do that trade again today. That's just my opinion though.

I'll admit that I'm a fan of Sutter.. but I'll agree that he has had some issues. He bungled the coaching situation and I can't say I like his drafting in the early part of his regime... but the content in the post I was quoting was ridiculous.

OMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 05:35 PM
  #41
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMA View Post
True. That said, I would still do that trade again today. That's just my opinion though.

I'll admit that I'm a fan of Sutter.. but I'll agree that he has had some issues. He bungled the coaching situation and I can't say I like his drafting in the early part of his regime... but the content in the post I was quoting was ridiculous.
even some of those good trades now didn't look very good at the time... and alot of that is luck... a 2nd round pick for San Jose's 3rd string goaltender?... C'mon Sutter may have known he could play in the NHL but he had no clue Kipper play as well as he did... and a 2nd for Bourque was considered laughable at the time... in he end great trades but they required a large amount of luck as well

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 05:44 PM
  #42
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
even some of those good trades now didn't look very good at the time... and alot of that is luck... a 2nd round pick for San Jose's 3rd string goaltender?... C'mon Sutter may have known he could play in the NHL but he had no clue Kipper play as well as he did... and a 2nd for Bourque was considered laughable at the time... in he end great trades but they required a large amount of luck as well
Yes, some luck but if you are smart the luck is in your favor at the end.

Sure Sutter lost some deals but he doesnt do stuff like Savard for Zaunullin or whatever his name is....meaning he always gets some value for his assets.

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 05:54 PM
  #43
rhet0ric
Registered User
 
rhet0ric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 69
vCash: 500
I'm surprised by how much support there is for Darryl Sutter as GM. To me he seems out of his depth in that job.

Recent mistakes include:

Bertuzzi, Jokinen, Keenan, cap issues at end of last season, trading anything just to talk to Bouwmeester.

The first three of the above, plus Phaneuf, are known for having poor character. How much of that can you have on one team? A great captain like Iginla can only handle so much.

Why does Sutter keep attacking reporters on the subject of the cap? My guess is that it's because he is insecure about it.

That said, he was a very good coach, and a big part of why the Flames went on that run. Personally I think he should have stayed there and let someone else do the heavy thinking.

rhet0ric

rhet0ric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 06:27 PM
  #44
Buttonwood
$$$
 
Buttonwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Coast
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 924
I believe he is a good GM. Every GM makes mistakes to varying degrees in a cap world, thats reality. Especially somebody as active as Sutter, he is not afraid to make a move or get creative, something I personally appreciate. Playoff success has been non existent, but I think back to Moneyball where Billy Beane calls the playoff (statistically) as a '****ing crapshoot.' A GM's job is to get his team to the playoffs, and then it is out of his hands. (MLB playoffs are harder to make obviously)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhet0ric View Post
Bertuzzi, Jokinen, Keenan, cap issues at end of last season, trading anything just to talk to Bouwmeester.
I don't see Bertuzzi as a mistake, he was a stop gap solution for our top 6, and was paid accordingly. Keenan was a strange hiring from the start and a mistake, didn't do anything and is gone now, seems we have an above average replacement. The Jokinen trade was viewed as making us a threat in the west at the time by fans and experts alike. Hasn't worked out so far, but give it more time. And we moved down 4 draft spots to talk to Bouwmeester, again give it more time. Those are just my opinions though. Both potential mistakes, but they had/have high payoffs.

I do wish our drafting was better, but a large part of drafting is player development. Hopefully, steps can be/have been taken in this area by the franchise.

Buttonwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 06:42 PM
  #45
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhet0ric View Post
Recent mistakes include:

Bertuzzi, Jokinen, Keenan, cap issues at end of last season, trading anything just to talk to Bouwmeester.
How is Bertuzzi a mistake? he signed 1 year for less than average salary. Didnt exactly work out but not a mistake.

Trading anything to talk to JayB? He traded nothing to talk to JayB. Whether he sign or not it's a great attempt....if nothing else, it keeps the fans interest on the team ....

Jokinen may be a mistake but that is still to be seen. It was an attempt to improve their playoff chance...dont say you didnt like it at that time.

Keenan...yes he is a mistake....

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 07:08 PM
  #46
Ronald Pagan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
even some of those good trades now didn't look very good at the time... and alot of that is luck... a 2nd round pick for San Jose's 3rd string goaltender?... C'mon Sutter may have known he could play in the NHL but he had no clue Kipper play as well as he did... and a 2nd for Bourque was considered laughable at the time... in he end great trades but they required a large amount of luck as well
Does that luck pendulum swing both ways? Is the Dan Ryder pick a bad one or an unlucky one?

Ronald Pagan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 07:53 PM
  #47
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Sutter moves up a notch in my book today.....

JayB for a 3rd...pure genius....even if JayB wanted to come to Calgary.

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 08:28 PM
  #48
Lunatik*
 
Lunatik*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Lethbridge
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,918
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan View Post
Does that luck pendulum swing both ways? Is the Dan Ryder pick a bad one or an unlucky one?
I'm not sure to be honest, if there were any inkling of a behavioral problem or commitment issues then it's simply a bad pick... however if there was nothing to indicate he had any problems then it was unlucky

Lunatik* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 08:30 PM
  #49
Johnny Hoxville
Moderator
Dust Buster
 
Johnny Hoxville's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,812
vCash: 2403
Just a quick question, I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sutter should be let go now?

I just ask because I feel like everyone is so quick to kick people when they are down, but I doubt anyone will be saying that today, or when he traded for Jokinen. I just want credit to be given where it is due. Sutter last 4 moves were all great, B. Sutter, getting J-bo's rights, reaquiring Prust and dumping Vandy's salary, and of course getting J-bo officially locked up.

Johnny Hoxville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 08:41 PM
  #50
Flames 1st pick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Just a quick question, I am wondering if anyone thinks that Sutter should be let go now?

I just ask because I feel like everyone is so quick to kick people when they are down, but I doubt anyone will be saying that today, or when he traded for Jokinen. I just want credit to be given where it is due. Sutter last 4 moves were all great, B. Sutter, getting J-bo's rights, reaquiring Prust and dumping Vandy's salary, and of course getting J-bo officially locked up.

To be honest, it's all good now but if the team dont perform, his ass is still on the line. It's not like we have a perfect team....there are holes, lets see if all this work pay off.

PS: all it takes is Kipper sucks ass again.

Flames 1st pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.