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Hossa Signs with Chicago :( (Updated: Kopecky to Chicago too!)

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:58 PM
  #51
JFA87-66-99
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The wings dont even need him. I say let him go.

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06-27-2009, 06:02 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOPGUN View Post
oh, irritated are we?
Do you know the asking price of those two? If so, inform us (!) please

We don't anything yet about those two. Lets see and wait before we start throwing around ridicules numbers like 5/6 million combined

Hudler and Sammy at max $4 million (combined) or else let them walk
Not irritated. 4M combined is the grey area where they may accept and we may be able to afford them. Personally I think 2M each is a bit low.

I think sammy will sign for 2.5M on the open market and Hudler is prob looking for 2.25M+

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06-27-2009, 06:03 PM
  #53
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what about 8+7+7+5+3+2+1+1 = 4.375 cap hit for 8 years

or 9+8+7+5+3+2+1+1+1 = 4.111 cap hit for 9 years

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I didnt say it increased his value. Actually I think its totally irrelevant. I mean Id like to say Sammy is worth 1.75M but lets be honest if we have the cap space id pay up to 2.25M if it kept us a very nice "depth player" with versatility. My point is when faced with filling our final spot (sans hossa) it would come down to Hudler vs Sammy vs 2.25M FA. Ill take Sammy (as long as both are equal bargains, likely they wont be).

At 2.25M we wont find many players that fit our team or our needs better than Sammy. Id be willing to overpay a little (in the short term) to have a more competitive team for the next year or two.

No im not talking about signing Sammy to a long term deal. I dont think we need any more long term deals currently.
See, I don't think Sammy at $2.25 MM is much of a discount. How do you justify paying him market value, and I am assuming he'd want more than 1 yr... when you ask guys like Z and Franzen to sign into the discount program? There's really no reason for the Wings to give him this much money + term-- especially the term part -- when they have a nice set of 3rd line-ish forwards waiting to come in. Keep in mind that the cap may decline next season, which means you've got Sammy locked up for some real money when the younger guys need to be renewed, and when you're looking at a new goalie or replacement for Nick. Kinda what HD is saying with Hossa, better to let him leave altogether, but IF an elite player gives you a lower cap hit, it's hard to say no. You move some depth then...

 
Old
06-27-2009, 06:43 PM
  #55
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I'm totally prepared to see Kenny trade his rights on Monday. We don't need him at all, we won a cup without him and going right up against the cap for a player who provides something we honestly don't need is stupid.

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06-27-2009, 06:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
I'm totally prepared to see Kenny trade his rights on Monday. We don't need him at all, we won a cup without him and going right up against the cap for a player who provides something we honestly don't need is stupid.
i hope you're not talking about sammy.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:48 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
See, I don't think Sammy at $2.25 MM is much of a discount. How do you justify paying him market value, and I am assuming he'd want more than 1 yr... when you ask guys like Z and Franzen to sign into the discount program? There's really no reason for the Wings to give him this much money + term-- especially the term part -- when they have a nice set of 3rd line-ish forwards waiting to come in. Keep in mind that the cap may decline next season, which means you've got Sammy locked up for some real money when the younger guys need to be renewed, and when you're looking at a new goalie or replacement for Nick. Kinda what HD is saying with Hossa, better to let him leave altogether, but IF an elite player gives you a lower cap hit, it's hard to say now. You move some depth then...
Its not a discount. But if its short term its better probably better than dressing 4 rookies. If we end up filling that lost spot with a FA we are looking at

1. Hudler (small discount)
2. Sammy (Market value)
3. Recovery Project UFA (ie cheep but not really that good, could work or could fail)
4. Scrub for 2M. Say we Sign Lapperrie (sp) would he even sign for 2M? He might actually want more. Lapps would be better for our bottom 6 than sammy but isnt as versatile. I like the fact that we can put sammy in our top 6 when needed. How many potential top 6 forwards are available under 2M?

So what we need is a player who can play BOTH a top 6 and bottom 6 role for roughly 2M. Im with you on the discount thing but the only way sammy would sign for one is if we offer him a longterm deal (no thx). The longer we sign hudler for the higher his cap hit will be. So im thinking of it strictly in a id rather overpay a little than get an inferior player (pending we have the cap space).

We could fit
Leino 1M
Sammy 2.25
if we promote Abs and Helm.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:52 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
i hope you're not talking about sammy.
We won a Cup with Sammy

But I'm not sure we need Sammy at the price he wants, either. I just think it's time to get younger on the bottom 6.

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06-27-2009, 06:52 PM
  #59
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We have no idea what price he wants.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:57 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
We won a Cup with Sammy
but also without, though it was a while ago.

Quote:
But I'm not sure we need Sammy at the price he wants, either. I just think it's time to get younger on the bottom 6.
i'm not sure he wants much money. he didn't want much in the past. i think he should test the market and cash in. he deserves it. he should take a 2.5mill offer if he gets one. and maybe some team even offers 3-4 years.
i think holland would offer 2y at most. sammy is 33 and with 35 i think he will most likely start to slow down. we have better options in our system.
but if some team will throw a longer contract at him, he should do it. it's his last contract of his career maybe and he has his cup ring. he should try to get the money.

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Old
06-27-2009, 07:01 PM
  #61
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For me, Sammy is very replaceable. We have guys waiting to jump up into the big leagues, and Samuelsson is overall not a huge benefit to the team. Sure, scores some goals sometimes, small contract, but generally not very smart plays with the puck, and I find him to be too ready to shoot when there are better options. Get rid of him.

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Old
06-27-2009, 07:04 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsyuk View Post
For me, Sammy is very replaceable. We have guys waiting to jump up into the big leagues, and Samuelsson is overall not a huge benefit to the team. Sure, scores some goals sometimes, small contract, but generally not very smart plays with the puck, and I find him to be too ready to shoot when there are better options. Get rid of him.
We do... But can you replace

Kopecky, Hossa, Sammy, and Hudler

all at one time from the system?

No. At most we promote 3 (leino, helm, abs) and keep one or two of the above or sign UFAs, or use our scrubs (downey/mcCarty)


Last edited by solo16: 06-27-2009 at 07:12 PM.
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Old
06-27-2009, 07:12 PM
  #63
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4 million is too much for a player who vanishes in the postseason.

Bye Hossa dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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Old
06-27-2009, 07:57 PM
  #64
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holland says he is not optimistic about a deal with hossa.

also says conklin will not be re-signed, which is not surprising.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....land_deal.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Honestly, right now I'd be totally fine if Hossa, Sammy and Hudler all left. Hossa thinks he's too expensive, Sammy as a 2 mil player would probably annoy me, and I'd love to get the picks from someone offering up 2+ for Huds.

That said, Hossa and Sammy are almost certainly gone, and Hudler only stays if he signs his qualifying offer, so I may get my wish.

I mean, Detroit could pick up a guy like Laperriere for around 1.5-2 in a one year deal and put him in Kopecky's spot and have:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Filppula-Hudler/Leino
Helm-Draper-Laperriere
Homer-Hudler/Leino-Maltby

I love those forwards. Love them. Big bursting hearts of love. And the Wings could probably do that and have 1-2 mil in cap space to boot, depending on how Lilja is handled.

Who would want to play against that third line? The fourth line is probably junk, but Maltby and Homer are at least physical, and if Hudler/Leino can provide some individual skill and scoring there, it's not like Homer is completely useless as an offensive player... although he may be.

If someone cements that other top 6 forward spot, that top 6 could be really hard to handle.
still a very good lineup

but i think helm and draper should play C on their own lines. hudler and leino have not played C in NHL, and i don't think they have the defensive ability to play C.

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Old
06-27-2009, 09:54 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
We won a Cup with Sammy
And Dallas Drake, too. Just get Drake out of retirement and we're all set.

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Old
06-28-2009, 12:33 AM
  #66
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Bye Hossa.

Back to how the line-up used to be.

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Old
06-28-2009, 08:19 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzerman_for_Prez View Post
4 million is too much for a player who vanishes in the postseason.

Bye Hossa dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Hossa is not worth $4 million... you kidding me?

Honestly, I should never have gotten my hopes up on keeping Marian here long-term... there was just no way Holland could have pulled it off. Oh well.

Good luck winning a Cup in LA!

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Old
06-28-2009, 08:59 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Again, you're not getting it. Here, maybe this will help.

6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6. That's 6 years, 36 million. 6 mil cap hit.

or

6, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1. That's 12 years, 50 million. 4.17 mil cap hit.

Then, if you were smart, you would sit down and analyze the two halves of the deal.

Is it worth it to play in Detroit for 6 years at 34 million rather than somewhere else at 6 years and 36 (or more, possibly) million, a whopping difference of around 300k (or more) a year?
From an external point of view, Hossa can certainly get 7M/year for 6 years at this point on the market. The 6M for 6 years would already be a concession by Hossa to the Red Wings. And giving you another 6 years for 16 millions is pushing it imo. At 36 years old, Marian Hossa will most certainly still be able the get 4M/year deal. So with 50M for 12 years, he's potentially giving a lot of money on the table.

And what if he gets a 7.5M deal for 4 years elsewhere? At 34 of age, he could then signed a 4.5M cap hit for 4-5 years again, get at the very least 5-6 millions more than that 50M contract in 4 less years.
that's a helluva money, not just a "home discount".

+ While it might be a good idea to offer long term contract to 2-3 players, i dont believe it would be wise for Detroit to keep adding long term contracts. no?

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Old
06-28-2009, 09:19 AM
  #69
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Call me crazy but im With A2Y in the belief that Hossa will take the concession to stay. Hes already proven once its not about the money... He strikes me as a loyal type guy. He fits into the room and has support of the players. He strikes me as too emotional to chase money (considering the guy has already had several high dollar contracts).

Facts:

1. Hossa wants to play in detroit
2. He is not focused on money
3. He has other euros in the lockerroom he has bonded with and generally enjoys playing here
4. He knows he will have another chance to win.

He takes the 4M cap hit. I sorta hope he doesn't as I like our team more without him but ill be shocked if he doesnt.

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06-28-2009, 09:42 AM
  #70
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Honestly though, why spend the 4M on Hossa? Then there would be no room at all incase of injuries, just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, he scored 40 goals in the regular season...but in the playoffs when it mattered, he didn't do much of anything. I say let him go. Helm, and Leino are both ready to play for the Wings, and without keeping Hossa and more than likely Sammy around, Huds is a good possibility to be back.

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Old
06-28-2009, 09:52 AM
  #71
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Let him go.

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Old
06-28-2009, 10:04 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DTownWingsfan View Post
Honestly though, why spend the 4M on Hossa? Then there would be no room at all incase of injuries, just doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, he scored 40 goals in the regular season...but in the playoffs when it mattered, he didn't do much of anything. I say let him go. Helm, and Leino are both ready to play for the Wings, and without keeping Hossa and more than likely Sammy around, Huds is a good possibility to be back.
God Gawd.
Because Marian Hossa is an elite player? If you can get Hossa at a cap hit of $4M, you have to do it. Unless you're a fanboy with Jiri Hudler posters on his wall.

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Old
06-28-2009, 10:10 AM
  #73
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Like Holland said, if you can get him for 4 million, you do it. If he wants 6 million a year as a cap hit, you shake his hand, show him the door, and wish him well. It is up to Hossa, really.

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Old
06-28-2009, 10:16 AM
  #74
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if hossa wants 6mill, holland could let him walk and sign antropov to 5mill.

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Old
06-28-2009, 10:26 AM
  #75
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I'd love for Hossa to sign for $4M. But I don't think there's a chance in hell he signs that low.

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