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Hossa Signs with Chicago :( (Updated: Kopecky to Chicago too!)

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06-29-2009, 10:52 PM
  #101
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I'm gonna disagree and say that #2 hasn't even crossed his mind and #1 isn't something he'd ever plan for.

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06-29-2009, 10:55 PM
  #102
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I'm gonna disagree and say that #2 hasn't even crossed his mind and #1 isn't something he'd ever plan for.
Well seeing we won't find out for a few hours if Hossa accepts (doubtful), but let's say he does. Who does Holland cut so he can have 12 forwards (add Leino, Helm, Ericksson) and probably Hudler? We can assume Meech is a goner, but we need one more.

 
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06-29-2009, 10:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Well seeing we won't find out for a few hours if Hossa accepts (doubtful), but let's say he does. Who does Holland cut so he can have 12 forwards (add Leino, Helm, Ericksson) and probably Hudler? We can assume Meech is a goner, but we need one more.
No one knows because Holland has never been in this position before.

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06-29-2009, 11:11 PM
  #104
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I'm gonna disagree and say that #2 hasn't even crossed his mind and #1 isn't something he'd ever plan for.
Well option 3 and 4 are even more unlikely.

3. Holmstrom retires

4. We trade one of the NTC boys: Rafi, Cleary, Draper, Stuart

Its gotta be 1 or 2 unless you seriously think Holmstrom is retiring (i really doubt it).

I truly believe that Holland almost traded Filp for Hossa last year and I dont think he'd hesitate to do it this year.

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06-30-2009, 08:15 AM
  #105
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I think youre all thinking too much.

Hoss is a goner. The best we Wings fans can hope for is some team signing Hudler to a ridiculous RFA offer sheet. Thats our only hope outside those who want to trade Filpulla (I was one of those people, not anymore).

Face it, this is a boring, purging offseason. The only aquisitions the Wings will make are AHL prospects (Helm, Abdelkader, Leino, Ericsson, etc). Beyond that, bu-bye Hoss, bu-bye Sammy and hopefully an RFA offer sheet to Hudler.

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06-30-2009, 10:10 AM
  #106
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Hossa needs to go period!

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06-30-2009, 10:53 AM
  #107
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No one knows because Holland has never been in this position before.
I actually don't think it's that difficult to figure out. Let's look at it this way - if Hossa signs long term for a $4-4.5M cap hit, that means Holland has these forwards signed for multiple seasons (all of them through 2013).

Datsyuk, Z, Franzen, Hossa and Cleary

That list encompasses almost all of the top six, with someone like Homer or possibly Hudler/Leino filling out the top two lines. More importantly, note that it includes two centers.

Now, given all of that high end talent on the top two lines and the presence of two All Star centers, I assert that it is simply unreasonable to pay Filppula a $3M salary so he can center the third line. So it becomes an easy decision for Holland when he needs to move somebody to get in compliance with the cap - he trades Flip.

I also believe this is one of the primary reasons why Holland is holding Hossa to a ~$4M cap hit. Kenny is willing to eat the extra $1M per season to upgrade Filppula to Hossa. That makes Hossa the better value. But when Hossa's cap hit gets bigger than that, Filppula starts to look like the better bargain.

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06-30-2009, 10:55 AM
  #108
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Well option 3 and 4 are even more unlikely.

3. Holmstrom retires

4. We trade one of the NTC boys: Rafi, Cleary, Draper, Stuart

Its gotta be 1 or 2 unless you seriously think Holmstrom is retiring (i really doubt it).

I truly believe that Holland almost traded Filp for Hossa last year and I dont think he'd hesitate to do it this year.
Honestly, I don't think the Wings would totally dig their heels in about trading Kronwall. I think we've seen Kronwall's best, and while it's good, it's probably not going to be worth the 4.5+ he will command in his next deal. Maybe, maybe not.

His value right now seems like it can't be any higher. He's locked up to a nice contract for three more years, he could serve as a 1b type of top pairing dman for a team with a smaller payroll ceiling, he has a fan-pleasing skill set (handles the puck well, knocks people senseless), and most importantly... he doesn't have any trade-limiters in his deal (that I am aware of).

I like Kronwall, I believe Fugu and I were perhaps the only two people not actively-fashioning weapons of either murder or suicide when he was locked up to his contract, but I think if we're talking about retaining Hossa (who is more advanced at his position than Kronwall is at his), moving Kronwall would be something I could contemplate.

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06-30-2009, 10:59 AM
  #109
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I assert that it is simply unreasonable to pay Filppula a $3M salary so he can center the third line.
That's why Datsyuk and Zetterberg would probably be playing together in that scenario.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Filppula-Hossa.

And then, sure, if the third line is hinky the option is there to step Fil down and solidify that as needed.

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06-30-2009, 11:01 AM
  #110
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OKAY the bottom line here is, sign Hossa give up NHL players and play with AHL players.

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06-30-2009, 11:02 AM
  #111
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Honestly, I don't think the Wings would totally dig their heels in about trading Kronwall. I think we've seen Kronwall's best, and while it's good, it's probably not going to be worth the 4.5+ he will command in his next deal. Maybe, maybe not.

His value right now seems like it can't be any higher. He's locked up to a nice contract for three more years, he could serve as a 1b type of top pairing dman for a team with a smaller payroll ceiling, he has a fan-pleasing skill set (handles the puck well, knocks people senseless), and most importantly... he doesn't have any trade-limiters in his deal (that I am aware of).

I like Kronwall, I believe Fugu and I were perhaps the only two people not actively-fashioning weapons of either murder or suicide when he was locked up to his contract, but I think if we're talking about retaining Hossa (who is more advanced at his position than Kronwall is at his), moving Kronwall would be something I could contemplate.
I contemplate it regularly actually. But i figured it would be really unpopular around here. Kronwall has huge trade value and if you have faith in Kindl and Ericsson we dont really NEED him. Look at the push back we get when we mention trading Filp, I can only imagine the cries if we actively debated Kronwall. I personally dont think this is lidstroms last contract so under that guise we can afford to move kronwall.

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06-30-2009, 11:03 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Honestly, I don't think the Wings would totally dig their heels in about trading Kronwall. I think we've seen Kronwall's best, and while it's good, it's probably not going to be worth the 4.5+ he will command in his next deal. Maybe, maybe not.

His value right now seems like it can't be any higher. He's locked up to a nice contract for three more years, he could serve as a 1b type of top pairing dman for a team with a smaller payroll ceiling, he has a fan-pleasing skill set (handles the puck well, knocks people senseless), and most importantly... he doesn't have any trade-limiters in his deal (that I am aware of).

I like Kronwall, I believe Fugu and I were perhaps the only two people not actively-fashioning weapons of either murder or suicide when he was locked up to his contract, but I think if we're talking about retaining Hossa (who is more advanced at his position than Kronwall is at his), moving Kronwall would be something I could contemplate.
I'm one of the many that didn't like Kronwall's deal when he signed it. However, I think it is now the biggest reason to not trade him. He's a great value at a $3M cap hit. In a vacuum, there is no doubt that Hossa at $4M is a better value than Kronwall at $3M. However, we'd have to plug that hole in defense some way and that wouldn't be cheap.

Faced with the reality that next season might be Lidstrom's last, I don't see how Holland can realistically entertain the idea of moving any of Rafalski, Kronwall or Stuart.

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06-30-2009, 11:08 AM
  #113
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That's why Datsyuk and Zetterberg would probably be playing together in that scenario.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Cleary
Franzen-Filppula-Hossa.

And then, sure, if the third line is hinky the option is there to step Fil down and solidify that as needed.
That's a ton (too much) of money tied up in forwards. So this scenario involves either Homer going one way or another (retires or traded, both are pretty unlikely IMO), or you subtract a major piece from the defense. I have some big time reservations about the latter option given Lidstrom is nearing the end of his playing days.

-edit
Not to mention that Babcock prefers to split the twins up. There's really no good justification to have three natural centers in your top six. It's why the Penguins took some heat / were the subject of much trade speculation when they re-upped Malkin, Crosby and Staal. I believe if we keep Datsyuk, Z and Filppula that we will continue to see Flip on the 3rd line, just as Staal continues to anchor the third line for the Penguins. Pittsburgh gets away with it because they don't have any premium wingers, while we do / would.

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06-30-2009, 11:31 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I like Kronwall, I believe Fugu and I were perhaps the only two people not actively-fashioning weapons of either murder or suicide when he was locked up to his contract, but I think if we're talking about retaining Hossa (who is more advanced at his position than Kronwall is at his), moving Kronwall would be something I could contemplate.
No, it was more than just you two. I remember defending the contract on the Nashville boards when they believed the Kronwall contract was going to screw up their entire dreams of keeping their young defense. The Hamhius comparison was the high point.

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Not to mention that Babcock prefers to split the twins up. There's really no good justification to have three natural centers in your top six. It's why the Penguins took some heat / were the subject of much trade speculation when they re-upped Malkin, Crosby and Staal. I believe if we keep Datsyuk, Z and Filppula that we will continue to see Flip on the 3rd line, just as Staal continues to anchor the third line for the Penguins. Pittsburgh gets away with it because they don't have any premium wingers, while we do / would.
I'm pretty sure that's 4 natural centers in the top 6, possibly 5 but I'm not sure if Cleary played center all through juniors.

The natural center thing is irrelevant since Babcock loves to have two centers on every line because of how many times players get kicked out of faceoffs.

Filppula was almost always the first person moved onto Pavel's line, I don't see how that translates to being the most expendable player to lose. Filppula would go strictly winger if that's the case or he'd be the center and Datsyuk would be the winger or Zetterberg. It's worked that way for 4 years now.

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06-30-2009, 11:48 AM
  #115
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That's a ton (too much) of money tied up in forwards.
I don't think 25-26 mil in cap space for the whole top 6 is all that much, really.

Quote:
So this scenario involves either Homer going one way or another (retires or traded, both are pretty unlikely IMO), or you subtract a major piece from the defense.
They'll be some cap gymnastics involved, no doubt... but a little turnover can be good for a team sometimes, too.

Quote:
Not to mention that Babcock prefers to split the twins up. There's really no good justification to have three natural centers in your top six.
Enh. I think it's pretty constricting to get too formulaic about roster composition. In many cases when people talk about issues with too many centers in the top 6 the primary issue concerns having too many 20-60 guys and not enough guys 40-40 guys. Zetterberg and Datsyuk (slightly less so) have demonstrated a more than adequate goal-scoring game, which makes the usual concern regarding center population in the top six less relevant.

Quote:
It's why the Penguins took some heat / were the subject of much trade speculation when they re-upped Malkin, Crosby and Staal.
Personally, I think the problem was that they re-upped Staal to a deal he isn't worth, and had Crosby and Malkin signed to ginormous deals already.

Also, part of their problem is that Staal doesn't play well with Crosby or Malkin, and having Malkin and Crosby play together too severely limits the Pens ability to have a dangerous second line, since Staal really isn't good enough to play on the second line absent significant support.

Detroit doesn't have any of those problems. Filppula is good enough to center a second line, he does play well with those likely linemates, and Detroit can play Datsyuk and Zetterberg together (with Cleary) and still have a very formidable second line.

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06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #116
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I contemplate it regularly actually. But i figured it would be really unpopular around here. Kronwall has huge trade value and if you have faith in Kindl and Ericsson we dont really NEED him. Look at the push back we get when we mention trading Filp, I can only imagine the cries if we actively debated Kronwall. I personally dont think this is lidstroms last contract so under that guise we can afford to move kronwall.
As one of the people who 'pushes back' regarding Flip, let me describe why I think the ideas of trading Filpulla and trading Kronwall are totally seperate ones:

We've probably seen the best Kronwall has. He's 28, he's played well over 300 NHL games between the regular season and the playoffs, and I think he is now what he'll ever be. He's an undersized defenseman who can be physically punishing, and he makes a very good first pass but has an average to below average NHL-level shot. He's never had more than 7 goals in an NHL season, playing for one of the best offensive teams in the league, and Kronwall and I have scored the exact same number of NHL Playoff even strength goals. Zero.

On the other hand, Filppula's game has gotten better each year, and he has been a force in the postseason. I don't think Filppula is a finished project yet. I think he's very close to flipping the switch mentally and becoming a more assertive offensive player. Those are all largely opinion-based observations, of course, but I just get a different vibe when I watch him than when I watch Kronwall.

So, I am more reluctant to trade Filppula because I'm not sure yet what I would be trading. With Kronwall, I'm pretty sure I know.

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06-30-2009, 12:54 PM
  #117
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There is zero sense in trading Filppula because first of all he is a great player and secondly he's the only guy Hossa actually can play with. For some reason Hossa doesn't fit in with Pavel or Hank so no sense in trading Flipper to retain Hossa.

I want to get rid of Lilja to free up about 1.25 to try to sign Hossa.

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06-30-2009, 01:07 PM
  #118
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Eklund claims Hossa will stay

Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. Says the deal should be announced tonight.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...pdates/1/21862

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06-30-2009, 01:26 PM
  #119
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Hahahahahha

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06-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #120
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Well, that means he's gone.... oh well.

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06-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #121
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Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. Says the deal should be announced tonight.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...pdates/1/21862
Iím not taking it, full stop.

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06-30-2009, 01:34 PM
  #122
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Is there any chance that Hossa takes a cheap 1 year deal and them signs his long term next year. I know that's pretty much what he did last year but if he loves being here like he says this could be the only way he stays. There should be enough space next year to give him that long term 6 mill a year or a little more for doing this for the team this year.

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06-30-2009, 01:42 PM
  #123
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Is there any chance that Hossa takes a cheap 1 year deal and them signs his long term next year. I know that's pretty much what he did last year but if he loves being here like he says this could be the only way he stays. There should be enough space next year to give him that long term 6 mill a year or a little more for doing this for the team this year.
Zero chance.

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06-30-2009, 02:21 PM
  #124
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Take it with a HUGE grain of salt. Says the deal should be announced tonight.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...pdates/1/21862
Hasn't he been making these claims everyday for the past week?

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06-30-2009, 02:22 PM
  #125
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What about Hudler taking a one year deal and reupping next year when their is a bit more cash?

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