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Did Burke get Played? - All Burke draft talk here

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:12 AM
  #76
arrbez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrTurkelton View Post
What was Schenn's?
He was getting a wedgie from Luke at the time.

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:14 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
The Niedermayer syndrome.. except Sedins are closer than Niedermayers can ever hope to be. I had $10 down on the recessive one demanding a trade by the middle of his first season to be with the dominant one, had they gone to different teams.
Just curious who do you think is the recessive one and why?

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:23 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ARSens View Post
It seems like Murray didn't really care if Burke chose Kadri or not, I mean he was offering to flip picks or something until Burke cut him off and then he was like "whatever".
Yeah, it was either the above or Murray was afraid Dallas was going to take Kadri, and when he found out Burke was going to take him, he went to plan B. In earlier footage from TSN, Murray and Burke are talking but you can't make out much until the end when Burke says "Okay come speak to me when the time comes..." (as in, Murray was talking to Burke about the fear that Dallas is going to take the player he wants).

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:28 AM
  #79
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Personally, when I watched the clip I didn't see Burke as rubbing it in Murray's face, or saying that to spite Murray. I don't see it as angling for a trade offer, either.

I saw it as just him being up front about what he's doing. If he wanted to be a dick about it, he could have said nothing, then watch smoke come out of Murray's ears when he announces the pick on stage.


I also think it's awfully premature to say Burke and Nonis screwed up the pick.



An NHL staff (Burke's) just indicated that they had Kadri ahead of Cowen and Svensson-Pajaarvi. Are you smarter than an NHL scouting staff? Has Nazem Kadri played enough hockey in the past 6 hours to have dropped?

I don't know for sure if Murray's staff also had Kadri ahead of Cowen and MSP (he might have assumed Cowen and MSP would go 7 and 8, leaving him Kadri at #9) but obviously at least 2 NHL scouting staffs had Kadri in the top 9 picks in the draft, and many or most lists had him in this area of the draft, so taking him at #7 is not like some kind of big reach.

I'm stoked with the player that the Oilers got, I'm sure the Senators fans are excited about the guy they got... and apparently a lot of Leaf fans are jumping of bridges. But we won't know who *reallly* made the best pick for several years. There's no reason to think that Kadri was a bad pick. Again: are you really smarter than 2 NHL scouting staffs?

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:46 AM
  #80
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Can't they put a timer on the ... once the player gets picked...
the player hugs the dad, kisses the mom, the aunts, the uncles, brothers and sisters,
the neighbors and kisses the 50 other damn relatives and friends in the 3 rows around them
Sure it is a big event getting drafted... but keep it down to a few minutes

They should set a time limit on how long it takes the kid to come to the stage...

That's why the draft takes so long

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:49 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDU View Post
cowen> kadri and it's not even close...
And thats why we have many many years to find that out...how can you say someones better than someone who hasnt even played a game in the NHL? And at the same time...maybe Burke was thinking...well we have about 9 or 10 defencemen about now...and we kinda need someone other than Jason Blake to score...so...we probably need a forward...seeing as Alexei Ponikarovsky is gonna lead the team into the games so far...Its kinda a good idea to take a forward at this point considering theres barely anything worth talking about at the forward position on the Leafs. Good pick.

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Old
06-27-2009, 02:54 AM
  #82
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TSN was saying even before the Leafs took Kadri that the Sens wanted him. Way before they showed the clip of them to talking as well. So no, he didn't.

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Old
06-27-2009, 03:15 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by EvanderKANE View Post
From the video it looked like Murray thought Burke was gonna take Cowen and Murray wanted to trade up before Burke shut him down. And let him go on so he didn't have to waste other picks.
Exactly this. Obviously Burke wouldn't take a player to spite another team but I think he wanted Kadri all along and Murray wanted Cowen and once Murray realized Cowen would probably still be up there at 9 due to Burke cutting him off before he could propose a deal, he saved himself some picks.

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Old
06-27-2009, 03:17 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pierreification View Post
Burke: "so the rumor is that Lecavalier is either going to NYI or to you guys..."
Gainey: "..................yea?" (walks away)
classic gainey right there

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Old
06-27-2009, 03:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
Again: are you really smarter than 2 NHL scouting staffs?
Based on my history, no. With few exceptions the players the Leafs have actually drafted have turned out better then those I preferred at the time.
If I were smarter... I'd be employed by them.

Still, like every fan I'll have my opinion. And it will inevitably differ from the Leafs opinion at times, and the consensus opinion as well.


The idea that Burke intentionally took Kadri all while thinking he was a poor prospect just to spite Ottawa... that is far more ludicrous then thinking Cowen is better then Kadri and the Leafs were fools.
The latter is just the usual fan perceptions that are seen for every player in every year, and as usual the order of best player taken is never the actual order consensus opinion has them in much as we might like to believe otherwise. Pretty typical and unremarkable. We all spend time on here debating various players merits.

Believing that NHL GM's (Or perhape Burke alone) is willing to risk throwing away his career by intentionally and knowingly acquiring poor players out of spite is borderline insane though.

Whatever I or anyone else think of him, Burke and the Leafs staff definitely do like him.
As for the video, my take is Murray wanted Kadri. Doesn't much matter though.

I'm not really convinced either team took the best player available at the time, though I'm leaning towards Cowen over Kadri.

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Old
06-27-2009, 03:54 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
How many of those were can't miss top 5 picks that any casual hockey fan would have been able to make?
Well, IMO:

Pronger should have gone #1 (2 points per game in the playoffs as a big physical d-man in his draft year is ridiculous.

Sedins - draft consensus would have been Daniel Sedin and Pavel Brendl - so solid

Kesler was picked basically over Mike Richards (two guys Vancouver were considering), so that's kind of a burn

Umberger, good pick, bad asset management (traded due to $100K contract squabble for basically nothing) - solid pick

Ryan - easy pick, consensus would have been JMFJ - 50/50

Schneider - again, the Canucks were expected to pick Mike Green, so still a good player but kind of a burn

Edler - great pick, but more due to the Canucks one Sweedish scout then anything else (stolen from Detroit who ended up w/ Franzen instead...they did ok)

Bourdon - passed on Kopitar for Bourdon so that was a franchise f-ing decision

Raymond - solid pick IMO (I think I wanted Brock Bradford in that spot)

Overall its a bit of a mixed bag, he gets credit for some picks - mostly the late picks, but passed on much better players he would have been expected to pick in other circumstances. This latter scenario is possible (IMO likely) in the Kadri vs. Cowen situation.

P.S. I think OTT was going to trade up for Cowen but when Murray found out TML were picking Kadri he decided he didn't need to. Burke really showed all his cards.

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Old
06-27-2009, 04:00 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Burke to Murray: "Well, what do you want to do?"
Murray to Burke: "Well we can flip you..."
Burke to Murray: "We want Kadri, is that who you want?"
Muray to Burke: pause...."Uh.... yea"

It would be funny if before Burke cut Murray off Murray was going to lay out a deal to move up to 7th and finish by saying and we'll take Cowen with the pick. I'm not convinced the Sens wanted Kadri at all and I think they were more than happy to draft Cowen.
And I'm not convinced anyone here suggesting this crap has a brain. Seriously, where does this need to create drama come from? Go join a terrible local theatre group, it's sad (aimed at everyone creating your little "I hate Burke, so I'll create a humiliating theory!").

Murray wanted to flip picks with Toronto to get around Dallas, from his own mouth. Being that none of you can read minds, we can assume he wasn't lying about that for no reason. So saying, "uh...yeah" to the Kadri comment does NOTHING if he really wants Cowen; Dallas still picks in front of Ottawa.

Christ, you guys are hilarious. Yes, Burke was the only one who wanted Kadri, and everyone came out smirking at Burke's mighty ego and how it made him take an inferior prospect! Good call.

Edit: Seriously, are we also assuming all the sources saying "Ottawa wants Kadri!" simply said it to spite Burke in the end? Yeesh.

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Old
06-27-2009, 04:02 AM
  #88
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I hate the Leafs, but in this case, maybe Burke was backstabbed by the Sabres if we look at his reaction after Buffalo claimed Shenn. We all know that Burke has not many friends around the NHL because of his pretty shy comments...

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Old
06-27-2009, 04:35 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by phatfarmxxx View Post
I hate the Leafs, but in this case, maybe Burke was backstabbed by the Sabres if we look at his reaction after Buffalo claimed Shenn. We all know that Burke has not many friends around the NHL because of his pretty shy comments...
Or maybe the Sabres took the kid they felt was the best available at the time and Burke had been hoping he would fall to the Leafs?

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:19 AM
  #90
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I do wonderif Burke being wired had an effect on other GMs negotiating with him though. Gainey wasn't exactly garralous on that tape.

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:21 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jin View Post

Overall its a bit of a mixed bag, he gets credit for some picks - mostly the late picks, but passed on much better players he would have been expected to pick in other circumstances. This latter scenario is possible (IMO likely) in the Kadri vs. Cowen situation.

P.S. I think OTT was going to trade up for Cowen but when Murray found out TML were picking Kadri he decided he didn't need to. Burke really showed all his cards.
The whole point of them talking was because Murray wanted some protection from Dallas taking his guy. So if Burke wanted Kadri and Murray wanted Cowen, why wouldn't Murray make the trade?

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:25 AM
  #92
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lot of you people probably think 9/11 was fake too

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:55 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Call of the loonie View Post
The whole point of them talking was because Murray wanted some protection from Dallas taking his guy. So if Burke wanted Kadri and Murray wanted Cowen, why wouldn't Murray make the trade?
Exactly. This is one of the stupidest threads I've ever read completely through. Only one thing makes sense. Ottawa and Toronto both wanted Kadri. Ottawa was worried that Dallas wanted Kadri, so talked about moving up. Any chance of moving up was nixed once Burke realised they were moving up to get Kadri. It's not rocket science people.

Anyways, I'm pleased with the Kadri pick, he looks like a good hockey player. I didn't want to take a defenceman.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:09 AM
  #94
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What do the Sabres have to do with anything anyways?

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:24 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by phatfarmxxx View Post
We all know that Burke has not many friends around the NHL because of his pretty shy comments...
What the hell is this? How exactly do we know this? Because you don't like Burke's quotes?

For ****s sake, the NHL is a 2 billion USD business, every franchise is worth tens/hundreds of millions and some of you people think the GMs act like your average 8y old at schoolyard. "BOOHOO I'M NOT PLAYING WITH BRIAN BECAUSE HE'S MEAN!"

Get a grip people.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:35 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
Overall its a bit of a mixed bag, he gets credit for some picks - mostly the late picks, but passed on much better players he would have been expected to pick in other circumstances. This latter scenario is possible (IMO likely) in the Kadri vs. Cowen situation.

P.S. I think OTT was going to trade up for Cowen but when Murray found out TML were picking Kadri he decided he didn't need to. Burke really showed all his cards.
That logic is simply stupid. You can do that for EVERY organization in the league and come up with similar results. You're basing your selections on hindsight which none of the GMs at the time of the drafts have available.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:36 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by phatfarmxxx View Post
We all know that Burke has not many friends around the NHL because of his pretty shy comments...
We all know?? You mean YOU think. I'm gonna bet you don't know anything when it comes to Brian Burke and the other GMs.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:42 AM
  #98
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Murray got equally skunked.

Burke: What do you want to do?
Murray: Well, I'll flip you...
Burke (interrupting): Kadri's the kid we're gonna take, is that the kid you want?
Murray: Yeah
Burke: Well, we're gonna take him

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:43 AM
  #99
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I'm not sure why people get so down on Kadri. IMO he's a high end skilled player that could be a lot like Marc Savard and at worst could be a Henrik Sedin. There's not much downside to that kid.

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Old
06-27-2009, 06:51 AM
  #100
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I'm going to assume that the Leafs drafted on need. They NEED forwards. They felt they drafted the best available. I wish people would stop with the Cowen comparisons. It was not an organizational need.

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