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2009 Philadelphia Phillies World ****ING Champions Thread Part III

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Old
07-19-2009, 03:46 PM
  #1
TheDrizzle81
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2009 Philadelphia Phillies World ****ING Champions Thread Part III

II is about to die.

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07-19-2009, 03:51 PM
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Dan Meyer, who is pitching for the Marlins now, went to my moms high school.

(Many years later, obviously.)

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07-19-2009, 03:55 PM
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TheDrizzle81
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one post from 6666 lol.

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07-19-2009, 04:01 PM
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Here is Mr. M. F'in Stairs. LOL

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07-19-2009, 04:02 PM
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Way to go, Matt.

Edit: There too.

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07-19-2009, 04:51 PM
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7 games up on the division.

awesome.

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07-19-2009, 04:53 PM
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one post from 6666 lol.
Damn, I blew right over that and didnt even notice. Thats what happens when Im doing the vbookie ****.

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07-19-2009, 04:55 PM
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Damn, I blew right over that and didnt even notice. Thats what happens when Im doing the vbookie ****.
ha. when u hit 7777 stop posting and play the lottery.

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07-19-2009, 05:08 PM
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Fun fact: JA Happ has a lower ERA this year than Roy Halladay. Discuss.

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07-19-2009, 05:29 PM
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Fun fact: JA Happ has a lower ERA this year than Roy Halladay. Discuss.
They need to give us Halladay++ if they want happ

discussion/

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07-19-2009, 05:40 PM
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Fun fact: JA Happ has a lower ERA this year than Roy Halladay. Discuss.
Halladay pitches in the AL in a division against the Yankees, Red Sox, AL Champion Rays and the Orioles.

Happ pitches in the NL in a division with the Amazingly injured Collapsibles, the weak hitting (under 0.500) Braves and Marlins, and the 26 games back Washington Nationals.

Halladay also faces the DH, where as Happ faces the pitcher. Not to mention, Happ is a rookie (a la flash in the pan Kyle Kendrick). Rookies tend to do well as the scouting reports are weak on them, but the real test is the sophomore season depending on if they can adapt.

Happ doesnt have good stuff, he relies on his fastball and control, while working in his changeup. It works(ed) for Hamels, but Happ will start to have games where he just gets shelled. His clock is ticking until he can develop another solid pitch.

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07-19-2009, 06:17 PM
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Let's hope that Toronto falls for that logic and gives us Halladay for Happ without demanding Drabek or Taylor too

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07-19-2009, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Halladay pitches in the AL in a division against the Yankees, Red Sox, AL Champion Rays and the Orioles.

Happ pitches in the NL in a division with the Amazingly injured Collapsibles, the weak hitting (under 0.500) Braves and Marlins, and the 26 games back Washington Nationals.

Halladay also faces the DH, where as Happ faces the pitcher. Not to mention, Happ is a rookie (a la flash in the pan Kyle Kendrick). Rookies tend to do well as the scouting reports are weak on them, but the real test is the sophomore season depending on if they can adapt.


Happ doesnt have good stuff, he relies on his fastball and control, while working in his changeup. It works(ed) for Hamels, but Happ will start to have games where he just gets shelled. His clock is ticking until he can develop another solid pitch.

Halladay's babip: .306
Happ's babip: .244

League average is like .270. And a lot of babip is luck so Happ has been pretty lucky.

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07-19-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Halladay pitches in the AL in a division against the Yankees, Red Sox, AL Champion Rays and the Orioles.

Happ pitches in the NL in a division with the Amazingly injured Collapsibles, the weak hitting (under 0.500) Braves and Marlins, and the 26 games back Washington Nationals.

Halladay also faces the DH, where as Happ faces the pitcher. Not to mention, Happ is a rookie (a la flash in the pan Kyle Kendrick). Rookies tend to do well as the scouting reports are weak on them, but the real test is the sophomore season depending on if they can adapt.

Happ doesnt have good stuff, he relies on his fastball and control, while working in his changeup. It works(ed) for Hamels, but Happ will start to have games where he just gets shelled. His clock is ticking until he can develop another solid pitch.
I think the Kendrick comparison is wrong here for a couple reasons.

A) Happ is much smarter than Kendrick. Better mound demeanor, stays calmer, mixes pitches better.

B) Kendrick had the sinker and nothing else even approaching a major league pitch which is the main reason for his eventual demise. That and his sinker stopped sinking which is usually a problem for a sinkerballer.

I think Happ just understands pitching which is a big plus, he knows how to work the ball inside and outside and his offspeed stuff is decent if not spectacular, I'd like to see him work on that curve a little more. I mean, I think there are some similarities between Happ and Hamels and while Hamels has better stuff, I think Happ has definitely been locating his fastball a lot better.

Greg Maddux is one of the 10 greatest pitchers ever because of location, as long as Happ can keep locating his fastball and using it to set up his offspeed stuff, he's going to have a good career.

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Old
07-19-2009, 06:48 PM
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Roy Halladay threw a complete 1 run game today against what many believe is the best team in baseball. If we could land him we'd immediately become the NL favorites. Plus he could probably win 25 + games in the National League next year.

Sorry JA, but a playoff rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer/Pedro makes me a lot more comfortable than Hamels, Happ, Blanton, Moyer/Pedro.

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07-19-2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Roy Halladay threw a complete 1 run game today against what many believe is the best team in baseball. If we could land him we'd immediately become the NL favorites. Plus he could probably win 25 + games in the National League next year.

Sorry JA, but a playoff rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Moyer/Pedro makes me a lot more comfortable than Hamels, Happ, Blanton, Moyer/Pedro.
Yeah, but is that 2 year upgrade worth giving up our 3 best prospects (including Happ)?

For me, it isn't.

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07-19-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Yeah, but is that 2 year upgrade worth giving up our 3 best prospects (including Happ)?

For me, it isn't.
I wouldnt give up all 3 2 of the 3 yes. and of those 2 id say Happ HAS to be included.

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07-19-2009, 07:21 PM
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Yeah, but is that 2 year upgrade worth giving up our 3 best prospects (including Happ)?

For me, it isn't.
If we don't have to give up drabek or taylor I do it. Knapp, Flande, Brown, Marson, D'arnaud, Donald, Happ...if they want any 3 or 4 of those I do it. I doubt we do a deal if he have to include drabek or taylor in addition to happ.

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07-19-2009, 07:36 PM
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I think Happ just understands pitching which is a big plus, he knows how to work the ball inside and outside and his offspeed stuff is decent if not spectacular, I'd like to see him work on that curve a little more. I mean, I think there are some similarities between Happ and Hamels and while Hamels has better stuff, I think Happ has definitely been locating his fastball a lot better.
This is why I've been such a big fan of Happ's for such a long time. He throws the same pitches as Hamels and despite the pure stuff not being as good, he gets just as much out of them. Why is Hamels the best thing since sliced bread and Happ considered such a throwaway? He was a third round pick, destroyed the minors (other than a rough transition to AAA), and has done nothing but pitch very well since moving to the majors. The kid's on a path to win rookie of the year. Considering age - both in terms of durability and career arc - and contract status, I'd honestly rather have Happ than Halladay. There, I said it.

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07-19-2009, 08:02 PM
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Considering age - both in terms of durability and career arc - and contract status, I'd honestly rather have Happ than Halladay. There, I said it.
I'm going to be perfectly honest, that's a ridiculous position to hold.

Halladay is considerably better than Happ, and there is no reason to believe that Happ will ever be a number 1 starter, let alone a dominant ace in the mold of Halladay. Yes, he's younger and cheaper, but this is the MLB; there is no salary cap and you don't get extra points for having young players. The Phillies are not a cash strapped franchise, and I highly doubt that the acquisition of Halladay would hamstring them in any way.

I'm sorry, but people need to temper their expectations when it comes to Happ. I'm as pleased as anyone else with how he's pitched, and it's come at the right time, but he isn't as good as he's pitched thus far, and he WILL come back down to Earth.

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07-19-2009, 08:22 PM
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Let's hope that Toronto falls for that logic and gives us Halladay for Happ without demanding Drabek or Taylor too
If you're trying to win right now, which is what the Halladay deal is about, then you want to keep Happ and trade prospects (Drabek or Taylor).

I'm firmly on the record in stating that the Halladay trade is not the key to all our hopes and dreams, but if the deal is centered around Drabek and doesn't involve Happ, then you won't see me muttering about it. If we give up Happ, I'll be annoyed...because I want to win now, and we need Happ to help with that, even if we have Halladay.

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07-19-2009, 08:24 PM
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I'm going to be perfectly honest, that's a ridiculous position to hold.

Halladay is considerably better than Happ, and there is no reason to believe that Happ will ever be a number 1 starter, let alone a dominant ace in the mold of Halladay. Yes, he's younger and cheaper, but this is the MLB; there is no salary cap and you don't get extra points for having young players. The Phillies are not a cash strapped franchise, and I highly doubt that the acquisition of Halladay would hamstring them in any way.

I'm sorry, but people need to temper their expectations when it comes to Happ. I'm as pleased as anyone else with how he's pitched, and it's come at the right time, but he isn't as good as he's pitched thus far, and he WILL come back down to Earth.
That's a bit of a naive series of statements...there is no salary cap (there is a luxury tax), but there are limits that teams will not cross and we are likely getting rather close to the Maginot line for the Phils. The salary expansion from last year to this is absurd given the spending history of this franchise.

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07-19-2009, 08:25 PM
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If we don't have to give up drabek or taylor I do it. Knapp, Flande, Brown, Marson, D'arnaud, Donald, Happ...if they want any 3 or 4 of those I do it. I doubt we do a deal if he have to include drabek or taylor in addition to happ.
For me Drabek, Taylor, Knapp, Brown, and Marson are untouchables. They might be able to convince me to move Knapp or Brown, but ultimately I'd like to keep them because of their high ceilings.

I'd offer something like Happ, Carrasco, Donald, and D'Arnaud. Happ is the young ML starter they covet. Carrasco was our #1 prospect who is struggling a bit, but has top of the rotation stuff and should have a bounce back year next year. Donald is the close to ML ready SS they need. D'Arnaud is a high ceiling catcher they loved from his draft year.

I was listening to ESPN950 the other day when several ESPN personalities were on. From what they were all saying is that the Phillies are really the only serious bidder who can afford him in both prospects and salary so there's no reason for us to outbid ourselves.

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07-19-2009, 08:27 PM
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This is why I've been such a big fan of Happ's for such a long time. He throws the same pitches as Hamels and despite the pure stuff not being as good, he gets just as much out of them. Why is Hamels the best thing since sliced bread and Happ considered such a throwaway? He was a third round pick, destroyed the minors (other than a rough transition to AAA), and has done nothing but pitch very well since moving to the majors. The kid's on a path to win rookie of the year. Considering age - both in terms of durability and career arc - and contract status, I'd honestly rather have Happ than Halladay. There, I said it.
The issue is when you look at Happ's peripherals you see why Hamels or Halladay is rated higher than Happ. Happ has seemingly been as lucky as he has been good. Also we've seen a ton of young guys have success their first time around a league. With Halladay, there is a guy you know why he is having success...you can't say that about Happ.

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07-19-2009, 08:28 PM
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.

I'm sorry, but people need to temper their expectations when it comes to Happ. I'm as pleased as anyone else with how he's pitched, and it's come at the right time, but he isn't as good as he's pitched thus far, and he WILL come back down to Earth.
I agree. I like Happ, but I still think he's more like a solid #4 type pitcher. I don't really like the idea of dealing someone from our current rotation, but ultimately I'd do it since his value may never be higher.

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