HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers qualify zherdev, not sjostrom

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-29-2009, 10:20 PM
  #101
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 16,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
There's a huge difference in talent level. Alex Ladd is younger than Alex Ovechkin, and they've both spent considerable time in the NHL. But you'd never compare the two in terms of offensive talent, right? So why would you compare Zherdev and Sjostrom? Last year Zherdev had 23 goals. That's the career high in point for Sjostrom. Apples and oranges.
Is that Andrew's younger brother?

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 10:52 PM
  #102
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Is that Andrew's younger brother?
Haaaa...nah, it's his doppelganger.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 07:50 AM
  #103
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
There's a huge difference in talent level. Alex Ladd is younger than Alex Ovechkin, and they've both spent considerable time in the NHL. But you'd never compare the two in terms of offensive talent, right? So why would you compare Zherdev and Sjostrom? Last year Zherdev had 23 goals. That's the career high in point for Sjostrom. Apples and oranges.
Read my post. I never said the two had comparable talent level.

My point was you can read all over the boards here how Zherdev has only played 360 NHL games, and he can improve greatly on his stats. Sjostrom has played virtually the same number of NHL games, and people are talking like he has reached his ceiling.

In fact, Zherdev has played a regular shift most of his career, while Sjostrom has not. I'm not saying Sjostrom can put up Zherdev numbers. I'm saying people are dismissing Sjostrom's capability to improve on Sjostrom's numbers.

The two should not be paid the same, not even close. But we are losing Sjostrom for a few hundred thousand because Sather has handed out hundreds of millions in bad contracts.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 08:30 AM
  #104
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Read my post. I never said the two had comparable talent level.

My point was you can read all over the boards here how Zherdev has only played 360 NHL games, and he can improve greatly on his stats. Sjostrom has played virtually the same number of NHL games, and people are talking like he has reached his ceiling.

In fact, Zherdev has played a regular shift most of his career, while Sjostrom has not. I'm not saying Sjostrom can put up Zherdev numbers. I'm saying people are dismissing Sjostrom's capability to improve on Sjostrom's numbers.

The two should not be paid the same, not even close. But we are losing Sjostrom for a few hundred thousand because Sather has handed out hundreds of millions in bad contracts.
Sure Sjostrom has room to improve, but how much? And he has had regular shifts throughout his career. He played plenty in Phoenix, and he's played regularly here. He looks like a 15 goal guy to me, which isn't much more than what he's already done.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 09:04 AM
  #105
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sure Sjostrom has room to improve, but how much? And he has had regular shifts throughout his career. He played plenty in Phoenix, and he's played regularly here. He looks like a 15 goal guy to me, which isn't much more than what he's already done.
My point is, if Sjostrom is a 15 goal guy who adds so many intangibles (speed, tenacity, outstanding penalty kililng), but you still don't want to pay him $900,000. Zherdev has averaged 20 goals per year but we're willing to pay him $3.5 million?

I'm having difficulty thinking of the intangibles Zherdev adds along with his 20 goals per year. The only ones I'm thinking of, taking games off at a time, including playoff games, are not good ones.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 09:30 AM
  #106
t3hg00se
Registered User
 
t3hg00se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,396
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to t3hg00se
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
My point is, if Sjostrom is a 15 goal guy who adds so many intangibles (speed, tenacity, outstanding penalty kililng), but you still don't want to pay him $900,000. Zherdev has averaged 20 goals per year but we're willing to pay him $3.5 million?

I'm having difficulty thinking of the intangibles Zherdev adds along with his 20 goals per year. The only ones I'm thinking of, taking games off at a time, including playoff games, are not good ones.
Maybe his intangibles are say...40-50 more assists on top of those goals?

t3hg00se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 09:37 AM
  #107
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
 
Feed Me A Stray Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,287
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Feed Me A Stray Cat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
My point is, if Sjostrom is a 15 goal guy who adds so many intangibles (speed, tenacity, outstanding penalty kililng), but you still don't want to pay him $900,000. Zherdev has averaged 20 goals per year but we're willing to pay him $3.5 million?

I'm having difficulty thinking of the intangibles Zherdev adds along with his 20 goals per year. The only ones I'm thinking of, taking games off at a time, including playoff games, are not good ones.
Uh, Sjostrom's career high in goals is 12. That was the only time he was in double digits.

He is not a 15-goal scorer. And I expect a predictable response about ice time. He is not good enough to warrant more ice time.

Feed Me A Stray Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 10:36 AM
  #108
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
My point is, if Sjostrom is a 15 goal guy who adds so many intangibles (speed, tenacity, outstanding penalty kililng), but you still don't want to pay him $900,000. Zherdev has averaged 20 goals per year but we're willing to pay him $3.5 million?

I'm having difficulty thinking of the intangibles Zherdev adds along with his 20 goals per year. The only ones I'm thinking of, taking games off at a time, including playoff games, are not good ones.
Zherdev averages 54 points per 82 games. Sjostrom averages 20 points per 82 and had just 13 last season.

The going rate for a guy like Zherdev, and his 54 points, is about $3.5M (if not more). The going rate for a guy like Sjostrom, with his lack of offense but solid defensive play, is going to be around $700K. That's what the market dictates. Why pay him an extra $200K if you think you can get him for less? I want Sjostrom back, I just don't want to pay him more than we have to.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 11:36 AM
  #109
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Zherdev averages 54 points per 82 games. Sjostrom averages 20 points per 82 and had just 13 last season.

The going rate for a guy like Zherdev, and his 54 points, is about $3.5M (if not more). The going rate for a guy like Sjostrom, with his lack of offense but solid defensive play, is going to be around $700K. That's what the market dictates. Why pay him an extra $200K if you think you can get him for less? I want Sjostrom back, I just don't want to pay him more than we have to.
Surely you see why these numbers just don't add up...

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 12:45 PM
  #110
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Surely you see why these numbers just don't add up...
No, I really don't. If the market for a guy like Zherdev is $3.5M, you pay him that much. If the market for Sjostrom is less than 900k, you don't pay him 900k. I'm not the one dictating market demands here.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 02:32 PM
  #111
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Qualifying just means a player who is an RFA was offered a single year contract. They also remain a RFA, and can only be subject to offer sheets.

If you don't qualify a RFA, they become a UFA, and can sign anywhere, including the team that didn't qualify them.

There are a couple of rules based on how much the player made in the previous contract, so since Sjo made 800k, the Rangers needed to qualify him with a 5% raise. So they probably don't think he deserves that much, but it doesn't close the door on him returning.
So then Zherdev cannot even be used in a trade correct? So basically he's free to sign where ever he would like to go. So really, it doesn't look so hopeful that Zherdev will be back. I thought he was a RFA and we would just have match what another team offers or let him go but be compensated.

So basically a team can do this with any RFA? Or it's all based on pay scale as to who becomes qualified and who doesn't?

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 02:45 PM
  #112
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
So then Zherdev cannot even be used in a trade correct? So basically he's free to sign where ever he would like to go. So really, it doesn't look so hopeful that Zherdev will be back. I thought he was a RFA and we would just have match what another team offers or let him go but be compensated.

So basically a team can do this with any RFA? Or it's all based on pay scale as to who becomes qualified and who doesn't?
It's not that complicated.

This system of group II's ands group III's and qualifying offers has been in place for a while.

The Rangers gave Zherdev a QO to retain his rights. He is still their player. They can sign him or trade him. What don't you understand?

Boyle was a traded three days ago and he is a group II.

The QO offer system is in the CBA.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 02:53 PM
  #113
BrandNewDream
Registered User
 
BrandNewDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
So then Zherdev cannot even be used in a trade correct? So basically he's free to sign where ever he would like to go. So really, it doesn't look so hopeful that Zherdev will be back. I thought he was a RFA and we would just have match what another team offers or let him go but be compensated.

So basically a team can do this with any RFA? Or it's all based on pay scale as to who becomes qualified and who doesn't?
They qualified him, so they retain his rights. But until he signs a contract, he's free to sign an offer sheet.

BrandNewDream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 02:57 PM
  #114
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
It's not that complicated.

This system of group II's ands group III's and qualifying offers has been in place for a while.

The Rangers gave Zherdev a QO to retain his rights. He is still their player. They can sign him or trade him. What don't you understand?

Boyle was a traded three days ago and he is a group II.

The QO offer system is in the CBA.
I know, i know , i know. I just got confused with the way Ian worded something and people asking about what qualifying means and i thought it was this new term.

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 03:07 PM
  #115
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
They qualified him, so they retain his rights. But until he signs a contract, he's free to sign an offer sheet.
Thanks guy's. Similar to what happend to Joe Sakic when we gave him an offer sheet but Quebec or Colorado matched.

But being a group 2 free agent, I'm sure teams aren't going to offer Zherdev 3 mill per. Doesn't that mean we get a first round pick and even a third out of it if the Rangers decided not to match?

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 03:15 PM
  #116
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
I know, i know , i know. I just got confused with the way Ian worded something and people asking about what qualifying means and i thought it was this new term.
Here

Quote:
QUALIFYING OFFERS

How will qualifying offers work?

Players earning $660,000 or less will be entitled to qualifying offers (QO) at 110% of their prior year's salary; players earning more than $660,000 and up to $1 million will be entitled to QOs at 105% of prior year's salary; players earning more than $1 million will be entitled to QO at 100% of their prior year's salary.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366

A player has until July 15 to accept the QO. If the player rejects the QO,the team still retains the players rights AND the team can pull the QO off the table and offer a lower salary.

The QO offer system was changed in the new CBA. The previous system had a 110% increase to every player making less the league average salary. In the last season under the previous CBA, the average salary was $1.8 million.

RangerBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 03:49 PM
  #117
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
It's not that complicated.

This system of group II's ands group III's and qualifying offers has been in place for a while.

The Rangers gave Zherdev a QO to retain his rights. He is still their player. They can sign him or trade him. What don't you understand?

Boyle was a traded three days ago and he is a group II.

The QO offer system is in the CBA.
No it's not that complicated. Maybe for others it is and they may feel like morons probably asking these questions on here. In bold, nothing you haven't said here. I just didn't get back to my computer in time to ensure others that I do get it. Just a slight misunderstanding. Sorry. I would have saved you this post. Thanks though for the website .

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 03:57 PM
  #118
GAGLine
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Thanks guy's. Similar to what happend to Joe Sakic when we gave him an offer sheet but Quebec or Colorado matched.

But being a group 2 free agent, I'm sure teams aren't going to offer Zherdev 3 mill per. Doesn't that mean we get a first round pick and even a third out of it if the Rangers decided not to match?
The compensation ranges changed for 2009-10:

Quote:
$994,433 or below - No Compensation
$994,434 - $1,506,717 - 2010 3rd round pick
$1506,718 - $3,013,433 - 2010 2nd round pick
$3,013,433 - $4,520,150 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$4,520,151 - $6,026,867 - 2010 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$6,026,868 - $7,533,584 - 2010 1st round pick, 2011 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
Over $7,533,584 - 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 1st round picks.
So a 3 mil offer sheet would only get us a 2nd round pick if we didn't match, but I'm sure we would match that since we just qualified Zherdev at 3.25 million.

GAGLine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-30-2009, 04:29 PM
  #119
gravytrain6t
Registered User
 
gravytrain6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
The compensation ranges changed for 2009-10:



So a 3 mil offer sheet would only get us a 2nd round pick if we didn't match, but I'm sure we would match that since we just qualified Zherdev at 3.25 million.
So thats a bad situation we would be in if he has a great year. With all these contracts, there's no signing him.

gravytrain6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:13 AM
  #120
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Zherdev averages 54 points per 82 games. Sjostrom averages 20 points per 82 and had just 13 last season.

The going rate for a guy like Zherdev, and his 54 points, is about $3.5M (if not more). The going rate for a guy like Sjostrom, with his lack of offense but solid defensive play, is going to be around $700K. That's what the market dictates. Why pay him an extra $200K if you think you can get him for less? I want Sjostrom back, I just don't want to pay him more than we have to.
So Sjostrom goes to Calgary for 2 years/750k. I guess Sather thought that was too high. Are you still happy we lost an elite penalty killer? Please don't tell me Gaborik will take his place on the PK. Please.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:18 AM
  #121
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
So Sjostrom goes to Calgary for 2 years/750k. I guess Sather thought that was too high. Are you still happy we lost an elite penalty killer? Please don't tell me Gaborik will take his place on the PK. Please.
Sather? It wasn't his call, have you not noticed who's running this player in-player-out show the last few days?

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:22 AM
  #122
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Sather? It wasn't his call, have you not noticed who's running this player in-player-out show the last few days?
This time in English please.

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:23 AM
  #123
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
My point is, if Sjostrom is a 15 goal guy who adds so many intangibles (speed, tenacity, outstanding penalty kililng), but you still don't want to pay him $900,000. Zherdev has averaged 20 goals per year but we're willing to pay him $3.5 million?

I'm having difficulty thinking of the intangibles Zherdev adds along with his 20 goals per year. The only ones I'm thinking of, taking games off at a time, including playoff games, are not good ones.
Since when is Sjostrom a 15 goal a year guy? Hes gotten 22 and 13 points the past 2 seasons, you cannot compare him to Zherdev.

Hey, i liked the guy too, and Betts - but its not the end of the world the PK will be fine. They arent the only ones on the ice.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:36 AM
  #124
Jersey Girl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Since when is Sjostrom a 15 goal a year guy? Hes gotten 22 and 13 points the past 2 seasons, you cannot compare him to Zherdev.

Hey, i liked the guy too, and Betts - but its not the end of the world the PK will be fine. They arent the only ones on the ice.
You took my point out of context. Someone else was responding with Sjostrom as a max 15 goal a year player.

My original point stands, though. Isn't Sjostrom worth 2 years/750k?

Jersey Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-02-2009, 10:40 AM
  #125
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
This time in English please.
Ya see what happends when I try to have a normal conversation with you.....

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.