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Giguere vs Luongo

View Poll Results: Luongo or Giguere?
JS Giguere 26 19.26%
Roberto Luongo 108 80.00%
Equal 1 0.74%
Voters: 135. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-30-2009, 04:35 AM
  #26
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
It's funny how big the difference seems to be here on HFboards compared to the actual stats.

Career NHL save-%:

Luongo .918
Giguere .914

GAA:
Luongo 2.57
Giguere 2.48

Quite close right?

Luongo gets the better rap because he makes more acrobatic saves. For some reason so many people see that as a sign of being the better goalie when usually it's just the opposite, the more you have to flail & flop around the grease, the more mistakes you have committed to get there.

Anyway, it's obvious that Giguere is far superior when it comes to actual accomplishments and that's good enough for me.
Great post. Also, it should be noted that Luongo's save percentages were slightly inflated by playing in Florida - a team notorious for inflating SOG counts (it's a well known secret that different arenas call things like shots, hits, takeaways, and giveaways differently).

The answer to "who is better?" is so obviously Luongo right now that it can't be what the poll is about. The answer to "who has had a better career" is "Giguere but it's close." Giguere right now is closer to being a HOFer than Luongo is.

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Old
06-30-2009, 04:51 AM
  #27
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Yes...lets use just numbers.

Marik Malik is the best defensive defenceman in the league because his +/- was number from 2002-2006. See how easy it is?


...Luongo. Not close.

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06-30-2009, 11:12 AM
  #28
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this is not fair to put giggy down like this, we all know it is lou

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:12 PM
  #29
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Roberto Luongo has had the better career, and I don't even see the logic for picking Giguere. Do people really see a Cup and a Conn Smythe as so incredibly valuable that it makes up for having fewer career wins, fewer career shutouts, a lower career save percentage, way fewer Vezina votes, way fewer year-end All-Star votes, and a distinct subjective difference in skill between the two of them?

Luongo simply owns Giguere in all awards voting except for the 2003 Conn Smythe. Giguere has no Vezina nominations and has never got a first-place Vezina vote and only 3 second places. Luongo has 2 nominations, 22 first place votes, and 25 second place votes.

In his entire career, J.S. Giguere only received one vote as one of the top 5 most valuable players in the league in any given season. Luongo has 175 Hart Trophy votes, 27 of them 1st place votes, and finished in the top 10 three times. I'd rate a second place Hart Trophy finish (Luongo in '07) at least as high as a Conn Smythe Trophy.

In my book, one unreal playoff performance does not an entire career make, and that's why the answer to this one is easily Bobby Lou.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:24 PM
  #30
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Roberto Luongo

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Old
06-30-2009, 03:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Center Shift View Post
Roberto Luongo has had the better career, and I don't even see the logic for picking Giguere. Do people really see a Cup and a Conn Smythe as so incredibly valuable that it makes up for having fewer career wins, fewer career shutouts, a lower career save percentage, way fewer Vezina votes, way fewer year-end All-Star votes, and a distinct subjective difference in skill between the two of them?

Luongo simply owns Giguere in all awards voting except for the 2003 Conn Smythe. Giguere has no Vezina nominations and has never got a first-place Vezina vote and only 3 second places. Luongo has 2 nominations, 22 first place votes, and 25 second place votes.

In his entire career, J.S. Giguere only received one vote as one of the top 5 most valuable players in the league in any given season. Luongo has 175 Hart Trophy votes, 27 of them 1st place votes, and finished in the top 10 three times. I'd rate a second place Hart Trophy finish (Luongo in '07) at least as high as a Conn Smythe Trophy.

In my book, one unreal playoff performance does not an entire career make, and that's why the answer to this one is easily Bobby Lou.
You just listed a bunch of plaque awards while shunning winning the cup. Amazing what makes a better player around here. Gigueres style of play will never get him the type of respect he deserves, especiaaly when guys like this value allstar appearences and vezina trophies over cups and smythes. Come talk to me when luongo actually leads his team somewhere noteworthy, something he hasn't proven capable of.

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06-30-2009, 03:08 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Yes...lets use just numbers.

Marik Malik is the best defensive defenceman in the league because his +/- was number from 2002-2006. See how easy it is?


...Luongo. Not close.
Along with the numbers, Giguere has lead his team to three separate WCF appearences and two cup finals....what has luongo ever done? Why exactly has he been the better goalie?

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Old
06-30-2009, 03:12 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Along with the numbers, Giguere has lead his team to three separate WCF appearences and two cup finals....what has luongo ever done? Why exactly has he been the better goalie?
So if Brodeur played for the Islanders and never won a thing but is still as good as he has been, Gigure would be the better goaltender?

I hate when people use team achievements as an excuse why someone is better. Giguere was awesome goalie few years back, but does that make him better goaltender than Luongo is now?

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06-30-2009, 03:17 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
So if Brodeur played for the Islanders and never won a thing but is still as good as he has been, Gigure would be the better goaltender?
That isn't a fair comparison. The ducks of the early 2000s are comparable to the panthers teams that luongo played for, and giguere did more with what he had. Being the goaltender that he was I'm sure broduer would have done the same had he been on a team of that talent level.

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06-30-2009, 03:18 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Along with the numbers, Giguere has lead his team to three separate WCF appearences and two cup finals....what has luongo ever done? Why exactly has he been the better goalie?
Generally, we regard the better goaltender as the one who is better at goaltending.

Luongo is better at goaltending.

Ergo, we state that Luongo is the better goaltender.

Can we argue that Dave Semenko was better than Adam Oates because Semenko has 2 cup rings and Oates has 0?

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06-30-2009, 03:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
Generally, we regard the better goaltender as the one who is better at goaltending.

Luongo is better at goaltending.

Ergo, we state that Luongo is the better goaltender.

Can we argue that Dave Semenko was better than Adam Oates because Semenko has 2 cup rings and Oates has 0?
please keep taking my posts out of conext. this is not some scrub agaisnt a legit player. giguere has numbers and seasons just as good as luongo and has lead his respective teams to heights luongo has never come close to. their style of platy is ithe only reason for the perceived level of difference in quality of play.


Last edited by Static: 06-30-2009 at 03:57 PM.
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Old
06-30-2009, 03:39 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
That isn't a fair comparison. The ducks of the early 2000s are comparable to the panthers teams that luongo played for, and giguere did more with what he had. Being the goaltender that he was I'm sure broduer would have done the same had he been on a team of that talent level.
I dont think you can compare those teams at all.... The Ducks played very very well in the playoffs when they won the cup, its not like Giguere did all the job. Besides, Luongo played well every season he spent in Florida and still they werent able to get to the playoffs so i guess the team couldnt have been very good either.

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Old
06-30-2009, 03:42 PM
  #38
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I took "up to now" to mean the better career so voted for JS. As for now, next season, Luongo is the correct answer.

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06-30-2009, 04:01 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
I dont think you can compare those teams at all.... The Ducks played very very well in the playoffs when they won the cup, its not like Giguere did all the job. Besides, Luongo played well every season he spent in Florida and still they werent able to get to the playoffs so i guess the team couldnt have been very good either.
I'm not comparing the cup team, rather those of the early 2000s. Those duck teams were awful, and comparable to the panther teams luongo played on

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06-30-2009, 04:24 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Static View Post
I'm not comparing the cup team, rather those of the early 2000s. Those duck teams were awful, and comparable to the panther teams luongo played on
Oh, okay.

Both teams missed the playoffs entirely in the early 2000's so whats your point?

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06-30-2009, 06:45 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
please keep taking my posts out of conext. this is not some scrub agaisnt a legit player. giguere has numbers and seasons just as good as luongo and has lead his respective teams to heights luongo has never come close to. their style of platy is ithe only reason for the perceived level of difference in quality of play.
By saying he's "led his teams to heights" you're making the false assumption that Giguere was solely responsible for his team's success. Yeah, he was the MVP of the 2003 playoff run and that might be one of the most impressive performances in NHL playoff history, but outside of that one run, he has not been nearly that impressive. That is a level he's never attained before or since so it's not appropriate to use it as an indicator of his talent level.

For the 2007 cup run and the playoff success surrounding that year, I'd be more inclined to credit the success to Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Perry and Selanne than I would to Giguere. He was solid in those years but in no way can you give him the credit for leading his team to that success.

Luongo is quite the opposite case of Giguere. He's displayed an elite level of play for his entire career, both in the regular season and the playoffs (save for game 6 against Chicago) but has fallen into dumb luck or played on teams that let him down, resulting in fewer official accolades.

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06-30-2009, 07:01 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4rde View Post
Its not Luongo's fault his team doesnt win the cup.
Dont forget that Giggy did take a average Duck team to the finals in 03.

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07-01-2009, 12:17 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeb View Post
By saying he's "led his teams to heights" you're making the false assumption that Giguere was solely responsible for his team's success. Yeah, he was the MVP of the 2003 playoff run and that might be one of the most impressive performances in NHL playoff history, but outside of that one run, he has not been nearly that impressive. That is a level he's never attained before or since so it's not appropriate to use it as an indicator of his talent level.

For the 2007 cup run and the playoff success surrounding that year, I'd be more inclined to credit the success to Pronger, Niedermayer, Getzlaf, Perry and Selanne than I would to Giguere. He was solid in those years but in no way can you give him the credit for leading his team to that success.

Luongo is quite the opposite case of Giguere. He's displayed an elite level of play for his entire career, both in the regular season and the playoffs (save for game 6 against Chicago) but has fallen into dumb luck or played on teams that let him down, rolades.
And yet giguere's numbers are just as good during the regular season as luongo. Tell me, how does that make luongo elite and giguere a step below him? Have you even bothered to look at JS's numbers over his career?

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07-01-2009, 02:05 AM
  #44
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If gigure is better based on Accomplishments, this mean Chris Osgood is the best goalie in the world.

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07-01-2009, 03:06 AM
  #45
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Not really a fan of either, but Luongo is simply a much better goaltender. The only time Giguere even got mentioned as one of the best in the league was for a short stretch when he wore shoulder pads that went above his ears.

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07-01-2009, 03:10 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
If gigure is better based on Accomplishments, this mean Chris Osgood is the best goalie in the world.
If you actually read my arguement you would have known that I said giguere has been just as good as luongo based on his numbers and his career accomplishments. Way to take things way out of context to support your arguement.

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07-01-2009, 05:09 AM
  #47
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Luongo is definitely better but although given only a limited opportunity, he really hasn't been too great in the playoffs. Giguere brought his team to two Stanley Cup finals and won one of them. I think for that exact reason, I'll vote for Giguere.

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07-02-2009, 09:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Squidz View Post
Luongo has a starting job
Giguere is the proven commodity in net for the NHL Playoffs. At this point you cannot even compare the career of each. Giguere has his name on a Stanley Cup, has made several appearences in the Stanley Cup Finals, is one of what... four people in NHL history to win the Conn Smythe when losing in the Cup Finals... Luongo might have more talent but he isn't nearly as proven as Giguere. I like Luongo a lot. But he isn't nearly as proven as Giguere is. Lundqvist is my favorite goaltender in the NHL. And heck, I think he has more talent than Giguere too but unless he can win a Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe it's meaningless. What does Luongo have? A single Vezina nomination? What does Giguere have? A Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe. Big difference.

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07-02-2009, 09:32 PM
  #49
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Luongo has a starting job
lol Touche

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07-02-2009, 09:35 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Giguere is the proven commodity in net for the NHL Playoffs. At this point you cannot even compare the career of each. Giguere has his name on a Stanley Cup, has made several appearences in the Stanley Cup Finals, is one of what... four people in NHL history to win the Conn Smythe when losing in the Cup Finals... Luongo might have more talent but he isn't nearly as proven as Giguere. I like Luongo a lot. But he isn't nearly as proven as Giguere is. Lundqvist is my favorite goaltender in the NHL. And heck, I think he has more talent than Giguere too but unless he can win a Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe it's meaningless. What does Luongo have? A single Vezina nomination? What does Giguere have? A Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe. Big difference.
What you're referring to is just personal achievements, not who's better. Osgood has more personal accomplishments then both of these guys but doesn't make him better then either. Luongo spent the majority of his career on a team that wasn't very good with no chance of competing for the cup. I don't see how that can be used against him.

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