HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trading vs. letting an RFA get signed to an offer sheet

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-28-2009, 10:56 PM
  #1
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,233
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Trading vs. letting an RFA get signed to an offer sheet

Some of our players are going to be RFA's soon. Now, I'm aware that compensation is due from a club when they sign away your RFA's. Do you feel we could get more, in general from trading some of our RFa's-to-be, or would you just assume let them get tendered an offer from another team and either match, or take the compensation?

Of our upcoming RFA's, what kind of money do you think they're going to expect/command? If another team were to offer it, what would we be due in compensation? If these other teams don't offer what these guys feel they should get, or feel that the compensation due in return is too steep...do you think that would provide us with leverage to sign them for less?

With the salary cap potentially going down...some players are going to have to realize that they're going to have to accept smaller contracts.

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2009, 11:57 PM
  #2
brtriad
Registered User
 
brtriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Loop
Country: United States
Posts: 13,004
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to brtriad
This subject has been brought up in pretty much every thread on the Hawks' board.

Here is the compensation chart:

$660,000 or below = Nothing
>$660,000-$1mil = 3rd rounder
>$1 mil-$2 mil = 2nd rounder
>$2 mil-$3 mil = 1st & 3rd rounder
>$3 mil-$4 mil = 1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder
>$4 mil-$5 mil = 2-1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder
>$5 mil = 4-1st rounders

I would peg Versteeg, Barker, and Brouwer as the three most likely to get an offer sheet. Judging on the contract Bolly just got, i'd say Barker and Versteeg would each command a salary between $2-$4 mil. Brouwer would more likely be in the $1-$2 mil. range. So if one of the former were to go, we would receive either a 1st, and a 3rd, or a 1st,a 2nd, and a 3rd. That is a sharp price to pay, which as you said, gives us leverage. Not many teams will be willing to give up those draft picks, so hopefully we can retain these guys. A 2nd rounder for Brouwer though, is much more realistic. Calgary gave us a 2nd for Rene freaking Bourque last offseason. If it happens, we may have to let him slip away.

If I had to guess, Versteeg would be the one to get the axe. Sell while his value is at it's peak. Plus Barker's contributions on the powerpay would be harder to replace than Versteeg, given the depth we have on the wings.

brtriad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 03:20 AM
  #3
joolzie
Registered User
 
joolzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
Andy Strickland says the compensation for the upcoming season looks like this:

$994,433 or below None
Over $994,433 to $1,506,717 3rd Round Pick
Over $1,506,717 to $3,013,433 2nd Round Pick
Over $3,013,433 to $4,520,150 1st, 3rd
Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 (2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $7,533,584 (4) 1st Round Picks

I'm a little surprised by these numbers because the cap hasn't changed much (up only $100K) from last year... but it's based on league average salary, which I guess must have changed a lot.

It's a tough decision to make. The biggest risk in waiting for another team to make the offer sheet is that they can make it for only one year and the 'owner' team, if they match it, has to match it exactly--and they can't trade him for a year.

So say someone got Bolly to sign an offer sheet for $3.6M for one year. A first and a third for him is decent compensation, but for the position the team is in, it's not really a good deal because those draft picks sure aren't going to be playing this upcoming year and who's our 2nd line center? Is there anyone available as a UFA to fill that role at that price?

And if you match, you're giving him $3.6M for one year when you know he's not quite worth that yet, but at least he's still your RFA next season... but then how happy would he be with a pay cut? Would you then have to escalate from $3.6M here on out?

It's all so easy at home.

joolzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 08:07 AM
  #4
Blackwater13*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 1,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joolzie View Post
Andy Strickland says the compensation for the upcoming season looks like this:

$994,433 or below None
Over $994,433 to $1,506,717 3rd Round Pick
Over $1,506,717 to $3,013,433 2nd Round Pick
Over $3,013,433 to $4,520,150 1st, 3rd
Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 (2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $7,533,584 (4) 1st Round Picks


It's all so easy at home.
Ain't it though....

My lord did they adjust the compensation to make it more viable for a team to actually sign a RFA.

Blackwater13* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 08:20 AM
  #5
bleedcubbieblue
 
bleedcubbieblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lombard
Country: United States
Posts: 95
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joolzie View Post
Andy Strickland says the compensation for the upcoming season looks like this:

$994,433 or below None
Over $994,433 to $1,506,717 3rd Round Pick
Over $1,506,717 to $3,013,433 2nd Round Pick
Over $3,013,433 to $4,520,150 1st, 3rd
Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584 (2) 1st, 2nd, 3rd
Over $7,533,584 (4) 1st Round Picks

I'm a little surprised by these numbers because the cap hasn't changed much (up only $100K) from last year... but it's based on league average salary, which I guess must have changed a lot.

It's a tough decision to make. The biggest risk in waiting for another team to make the offer sheet is that they can make it for only one year and the 'owner' team, if they match it, has to match it exactly--and they can't trade him for a year.

So say someone got Bolly to sign an offer sheet for $3.6M for one year. A first and a third for him is decent compensation, but for the position the team is in, it's not really a good deal because those draft picks sure aren't going to be playing this upcoming year and who's our 2nd line center? Is there anyone available as a UFA to fill that role at that price?

And if you match, you're giving him $3.6M for one year when you know he's not quite worth that yet, but at least he's still your RFA next season... but then how happy would he be with a pay cut? Would you then have to escalate from $3.6M here on out?

It's all so easy at home.
I'm not so sure that is correct. I could be wrong, but wasn't the dustin penner signing the biggest RFA situation that has gone down so far? Cause I thought his deal was like $4.2 or $4.5m or something like that for about 5 years.

Wait, found it... this from the TSN website: "Penner signed a 5-year offer sheet from the Edmonton Oilers. (Anaheim declined to match the offer sheet)"

bleedcubbieblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 10:12 AM
  #6
joolzie
Registered User
 
joolzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedcubbieblue View Post
I'm not so sure that is correct. I could be wrong, but wasn't the dustin penner signing the biggest RFA situation that has gone down so far? Cause I thought his deal was like $4.2 or $4.5m or something like that for about 5 years.

Wait, found it... this from the TSN website: "Penner signed a 5-year offer sheet from the Edmonton Oilers. (Anaheim declined to match the offer sheet)"
My wording wasn't clear there-- I meant that like 'they are able to offer only a single year if they want to,' not 'they are only able to offer a single year period.' Sorry for confusion!

joolzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 10:57 AM
  #7
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,233
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Wow. Last years chart and this years charts are WORLDS apart....especially in the range that garners a 1,2 & 3. It used to top out at 4 millionish. Now it starts there and goes to the mid 6's.

That's such BS.

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 10:59 AM
  #8
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,233
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
The one thing that's comforting to me is, I think that most of our high octane RFA's are going to be in that 3-6 million dollar range. And while picks aren't guaranteed to pan out at all, much less crack the lineup anytime soon...it's a little bit comforting knowing that you're looking at at least a 1st and a 3rd coming back, if not more.

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 11:25 AM
  #9
Blackwater13*
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 1,232
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post
The one thing that's comforting to me is, I think that most of our high octane RFA's are going to be in that 3-6 million dollar range. And while picks aren't guaranteed to pan out at all, much less crack the lineup anytime soon...it's a little bit comforting knowing that you're looking at at least a 1st and a 3rd coming back, if not more.
Thats why I think they wait and see on Barker and Versteeg. If they get some crazy offer than we take the pics and sign a couple of midlevel guys for 1 or 2 years in there place.

Blackwater13* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 02:22 PM
  #10
brtriad
Registered User
 
brtriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Loop
Country: United States
Posts: 13,004
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to brtriad
Wow. Did the RFA compensation levels really change that much? That works against our favor. Anyways, I agree with Blackwater. Let's wait and see if they get an offer sheet, weigh our options, and let them go if the offer is too high to fit into our cap.

brtriad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 09:45 PM
  #11
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,233
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
Wow. Did the RFA compensation levels really change that much? That works against our favor. Anyways, I agree with Blackwater. Let's wait and see if they get an offer sheet, weigh our options, and let them go if the offer is too high to fit into our cap.
Really makes it a bit more palatable to go after RFA's when you know you don't have to give as much up in return. I guess the real penalty is that you're chewing up your own cap space too by making the offer, in addition to giving up the picks. See...here's what I'm curious about. Let me put together a scenario.

Barker's going to be an RFA. You feel that the type of money he'd be offered on an offer sheet would fetch you a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Do you think you can get MORE than a 1st and a 3rd for him in a trade, prior to him becoming an RFA? Or is the best route to just say **** it and take what the compensation dictates?

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 09:55 PM
  #12
brtriad
Registered User
 
brtriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Loop
Country: United States
Posts: 13,004
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to brtriad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retail1LO View Post

Barker's going to be an RFA. You feel that the type of money he'd be offered on an offer sheet would fetch you a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Do you think you can get MORE than a 1st and a 3rd for him in a trade, prior to him becoming an RFA? Or is the best route to just say **** it and take what the compensation dictates?

If I am understanding you right, what you're proposing is like gambling. Giving him a high offer which would dictate a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd by letting another team sign him to that offer? Seems a bit risky because if no one signs the offer sheet than you are stuck with an absurdly high contract.

brtriad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 10:28 PM
  #13
Retail1LO
Registered User
 
Retail1LO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 5,233
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Retail1LO Send a message via AIM to Retail1LO Send a message via MSN to Retail1LO
Quote:
Originally Posted by brtriad View Post
If I am understanding you right, what you're proposing is like gambling. Giving him a high offer which would dictate a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd by letting another team sign him to that offer? Seems a bit risky because if no one signs the offer sheet than you are stuck with an absurdly high contract.
I think you're a little confused on how offers to restricted free agents work. He's our RFA. When another team make an offer...we can MATCH that offer, and retrain his services...or let them have him...and take the picks the picks that result from losing him to another team.

We have the right to match. That's key. If no one even gives him an offer sheet, we're free to negotiate without any outside influence, so to speak. But if someone else tenders an offer, we can either match the offer and retain his services, or let him go to the other team, and take the draft picks that come along with it.

Retail1LO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.