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Give up: Kovalev, Tanguay, Komisarek for Sedins?

View Poll Results: Give up: Kovy, Tanguay, Komisarek for Sedins?
Yes I would give them up 41 35.96%
No I wouldnt 73 64.04%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-29-2009, 06:34 AM
  #26
Whitesnake
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Yes based on who we have as a coach, what he believes in, and what kind of players the Sedins are.

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06-29-2009, 07:04 AM
  #27
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No. We give up the cheaper cap hits for three players, hurt our D and get not much more talent and get less play-off performance.

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Old
06-29-2009, 07:33 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post
Would you? (at their asking price)

Why even ask that question?

We need to add the Sedins(or at least another frontline center) AND re sign 4-5 of our top UFA's.

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06-29-2009, 07:53 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why even ask that question?

We need to add the Sedins(or at least another frontline center) AND re sign 4-5 of our top UFA's.
Good luck.

If you sign the Sedins, at most, you can re-sign 3 other UFA (good ones).

There is absolutely zero chance you can sign our top UFAs plus the Sedins.

Tanguay, Sedin, Sedin, Komisarek = $20M
Koivu, Kovalev, Lang = $10M (min.)
Hamrlik, Markov, Price, Kostitsyn = $17M

That's already $47M for just 11 players. Good luck fitting 12 other players on the roster for $9M.

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06-29-2009, 07:56 AM
  #30
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I think the Sedin's would be more then a $5.2M cap hit each. That being said, if the price is right would definetly be worth looking into.

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06-29-2009, 07:57 AM
  #31
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
1) Kovalev and Tanguay will re-sign with the Habs. These are two of our elite players. If we trade them away, we have nobody else with only 5 guys or signed, and none of them really leaving any excitement.
Considering the Sedins are better than both of them plus at Kovalev's age, he should likely be considering downgrading his demands and likely will especially after another mediocre season.

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06-29-2009, 07:57 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Id give up on Bouillon, Dandenault and Brisebois for the Sedins.

Id keep Bouillon ( versitile ).. the other 2 can go.. I didnt like bringing Brisebois back in the 1st place..

I still think we make a run at Bouwmeester.. Do you really think Calgary can move enough pieces around to resign him in 2 days?

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06-29-2009, 08:00 AM
  #33
Kirk Muller
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the other thing on Komisarek is, it might not be giving up as making a good hockey decision. No way Komisarek is worth 5 million, 4 max.

people want change but dont want players to leave. Other teams manage bigger cap hits then the Sedins would command yet it cant be done in Montreal.

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06-29-2009, 08:01 AM
  #34
Blind Gardien
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I don't think the Sedins are much/any better than Kovalev and Tanguay. And I'd rather have the shorter term/flexibility of the presumptive Kovalev/Tanguay contracts than be locked into super-long-term deals with the Sedins.

So even before you add in Komisarek, I'd have said no thanks. Komisarek takes the slam dunk and shatters the backboard too.

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06-29-2009, 08:02 AM
  #35
Habsfanatical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Considering the Sedins are better than both of them plus at Kovalev's age, he should likely be considering downgrading his demands and likely will especially after another mediocre season.
There are something like 12 players who have averaged 70 points since the lockout.. The twins are 2 of them and their average points are 80.. their salary demands still wont reach them into the higher paid level of the 12 highest average scorers in the league..



http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=283179

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06-29-2009, 08:05 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillainy View Post
But the cap hit would still be 5.2 millions, so what's the problem ?


Nice avatar by the way !



They both averaged a PPG during this year's playoff.
OK, so? Besides the fact that stats don't tell the whole story, where have they been overall?

Seriously....I don't understand how people just look at stats and come to the conclusion that they make a difference. And besides, saddled with these guys for all those years makes no sense. You can't go on guessing whether they'll retire in time to make it make sense. No wonder the Canucks, who know these players better than any other team, are reluctant.

And natey...Ohlund has and is declining rapidly. His defensive blunders = Rivet part II....no THANKS.

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06-29-2009, 08:07 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Good luck.

If you sign the Sedins, at most, you can re-sign 3 other UFA (good ones).

There is absolutely zero chance you can sign our top UFAs plus the Sedins.

Tanguay, Sedin, Sedin, Komisarek = $20M
Koivu, Kovalev, Lang = $10M (min.)
Hamrlik, Markov, Price, Kostitsyn = $17M

That's already $47M for just 11 players. Good luck fitting 12 other players on the roster for $9M.
We currently have 16 players signed for 23 mil cap hit. that means we have 33 left for 6-7 players.

We can add the Sedin's at 11 mil(combined if we give them the 12 year deal they want a la Frantzen).

Give Tanguay and Komisarek 6-7-8 year deals so we can limit the cap hit to a combined 9 mil(front loaded).

that leaves us with about 14 mil to re sign Plekanec(RFA) Higgins(RFA) Latendresse(RFA) D'agostini(RFA) Schneider(UFA) Kovalev(UFA) Koivu(UFA) and maybe Lang(UFA) or Kostopoulos(UFA)...but we have 20 players signed already, we can afford to move or let a few walk, we don't need to sign 30.

The 4 RFA's should cost about 7 mil leaving us with 7 mil to re-sign Schneider Kovalev and Koivu.

By adding the Sedin's, we could let Kovalev or Koivu walk or trade Plekanec as we'd have 4 options on the top 2 lines(H.Sedin Koivu Plekanec plus maybe Lang).

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Old
06-29-2009, 08:08 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I think the Sedin's would be more then a $5.2M cap hit each. That being said, if the price is right would definetly be worth looking into.
The cap hit is reduced to 12 mil because they are asking for a 12 year deal, that makes the deals more cap-friendly. Much like the Fratzen contract.

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Old
06-29-2009, 08:08 AM
  #39
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No...I'd rather give up Plekanec, Higgins, Brisebois, Boullion and Dandenault instead.

We need to re-sign Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek to remain a strong franchise. If we can add the Sedins and keep Kovalev, Tanguay and Komi around....we will be that much stronger.

The key is to sign some of these players to long contracts with a low cap hit.

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06-29-2009, 08:08 AM
  #40
Melvin Udall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madvillainy View Post
If I am not mistaken, the twins are asking for 5.2 per year.


Komisarek's asking price is at the very least 5 millions, roughly the same for Tanguay and add another 4 millions for Kovalev.

Basically, that's 10.4 millions against 14. This poll should be Tanguay/Komisarek vs the Sedin's. And yes, I would take both Sedin before them.

The problem with what the Sedin's are reportedly asking for is a 12 year contract at $6 million each per season!

Although they are decent players - what have they won?

Are these guys worth $6 Million each?

It looks like Vancouver has their doubts - as contract talks have apparently broken off - and it appears that the Canucks are prepared to let them hit the UFA market!

I would be shocked if Gainey would sign the Sedin's (or practically any one else) for 12 years!


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Old
06-29-2009, 08:09 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesiac View Post
The Sedins must make more than $5.2 in the first 3-4 years
Doesn't matter....At this point everybody has to know the cap hit is the average of over the length of the contract. So if you can get them both at around 5.5 you wont have to giveup all those guys you are suggesting we give up.

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Old
06-29-2009, 08:10 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
OK, so? Besides the fact that stats don't tell the whole story, where have they been overall?

Seriously....I don't understand how people just look at stats and come to the conclusion that they make a difference. And besides, saddled with these guys for all those years makes no sense. You can't go on guessing whether they'll retire in time to make it make sense. No wonder the Canucks, who know these players better than any other team, are reluctant.

And natey...Ohlund has and is declining rapidly. His defensive blunders = Rivet part II....no THANKS.
This. And we both get to watch them play here in BC.

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Old
06-29-2009, 08:11 AM
  #43
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The Sedins are so underrated it's not even funny.

Here's a little something that can make people think twice...
"Only 12 forwards have scored 70 points or more in each season since the lockout. Thornton, Ovechkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Heatley, and Kovalchuk are among this dynamic dozen and with the exception of the Sedin's, the average salary of every player in this group is just above $7.5 million."

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06-29-2009, 08:11 AM
  #44
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
the other thing on Komisarek is, it might not be giving up as making a good hockey decision. No way Komisarek is worth 5 million, 4 max.

people want change but dont want players to leave. Other teams manage bigger cap hits then the Sedins would command yet it cant be done in Montreal.
Komiasrek's clan was asking for 5 mil, the Habs were probably offering 4, if they met in the middle it wouldn't be too bad. My thought is they should give him a longer term and add a year or two to lower the cap hit. 32 mil for 8 years, give him 5 mil the first 4-5 years then it declines. Do the same with Tanguay, that way you have them locked up long term and they are cap friendly deals even if the cap drops.

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06-29-2009, 08:12 AM
  #45
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I just don' wanna go all doom and gloom on this thread but...

next year we have to give new contracts to skost, laps, price, and halak (one will be gone but still) thats going to be raises for everyone not much while no one is really coming off the books besides metro....so the question being hmmmmm i don't wanna screw ourselves for when cap goes down next year so i wouldn't wanna add both sedins given we need defense....

i believe we need a first line centre and a top 4 d and we are set!!!

seriously though our line up would be

tangs-#1 centre-kovy
skost-plek/koivu-akost
lats-laps-patches/dags
stewie-metro/chips-laraque

markov-top 4 dman
hamr-gorges
obyrne-weber/vet ufa
#7 ufa


resign tanger and kovy at 9 mil,

koivu or keep pleks - max 7 mil, min 3 mil

1 # centre - 5 - 6.5 mil

#4 dman - 3.5 - 4.5 mil

ufa bottom pair - schneids 2 mil?

34 mil cap space - 9 - 7 - 6.5 - 4.5 - 2 = 5 mil in cap still left given that this is all on the higher end of salaries correct? plus i am sure if we get a nother number one centre pleks is gone for SURE! and we keep koivu for two more years

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Old
06-29-2009, 08:13 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
The problem with what the Sedin's are reportedly asking for is a 12 year contract at $6 million each per season!

Although they are decent players - what have they won?

Are these guys worth $6 Million each?

It looks like Vancouver has their doubts - as contract talks have apparently broken off - and it appears that the Canucks are prepared to let them hit the UFA market!

I would be shocked if Gainey would sign the Sedin's (or practically any one else) for 12 years!

Granted Van has an amazing goalie.. They also have a strong D core.. but when the Sedins are the only ones scoring on the team.. what do you expect them to win?

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Old
06-29-2009, 10:09 AM
  #47
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Habsfanatical View Post
Granted Van has an amazing goalie.. They also have a strong D core.. but when the Sedins are the only ones scoring on the team.. what do you expect them to win?

I see your point and your point is well taken.

At the same time, Crosby & Malikn were often the only reliable scorers on the Pen's roster - and we know what they were able to do for the Pens!

The point is - the Sedins are good - but unlike Crosby & Malkin - they weren't quite good enough to get Vancouver to the "next (playoff) level".

And, I just don't see Gainey offering these guys a 12 year contract, which in 5+ years could look more like an albatross that a great deal!



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Old
06-29-2009, 10:47 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Madvillainy View Post
I'll take those two PPG ''2nd line players'' any day of the week. Do you realize that they've both averaged about 80 points per year over the last three years ? That's very close to what our Golden Boy Vinny Lecavalier has averaged.

And just FYI, Kovalev is the only player who's reached the 80 points mark with Montreal Canadiens during the last ten years. I'm not sure how you would think that they wouldn't be a big upgrade on our team seeing how we've been looking for a good center for ages.
Yeah i would take them in the reg season but since they've been in Van i havent seen them do to much to put there team past the 2nd round this team needs a game changing player and a playoff performer.

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06-29-2009, 10:50 AM
  #49
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These guys are asking for 12 year deals, both of them? There are about 6 guys in the league I would give that kind of time to, never mind the actual cost just the 12 year commitment. The Sedin twins are not any of the 6. Even if I expand it to 15 players I may grant a 12 year deal to, they still don't make the list.

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06-29-2009, 10:51 AM
  #50
Biggsy
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Originally Posted by ND Irish View Post
I see your point and your point is well taken.

At the same time, Crosby & Malikn were often the only reliable scorers on the Pen's roster - and we know what they were able to do for the Pens!

The point is - the Sedins are good - but unlike Crosby & Malkin - they weren't quite good enough to get Vancouver to the "next (playoff) level".

And, I just don't see Gainey offering these guys a 12 year contract, which in 5+ years could look more like an albatross that a great deal!


Exactly my thought's, If you have a Sid or Geno on anytime taking up your top 2 lines it's easy for the other 2 lines to contribute because it obviously takes away the teams top defensive players, like you i am not saying they are bad players but they have not taken Van to the next level and with the goaltending and d core van has if they were THAT good shouldn't they go further than the 2nd round?

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