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Manny Malholtra: going, going, gone?

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Old
07-01-2009, 09:32 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by maz-23- View Post
I personally really like the Marcel Goc idea.

he is just 25, a real good checking line center that earned something about 800k last year... you could get him cheap and spend more on the needed help in Defense.

he had some trouble with injuries the last two years but that is a risk on him i would take.
Didn't Goc play in Cleveland while working his way through the Sharks' system? Any of our NEOhio friends have thoughts on thus guy?

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Old
07-01-2009, 09:44 AM
  #52
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Much ado about nothing. Sure he would be great to have back but fact is he can be replaced by someone who is going to be making less or the same. Why in the world are so many getting this bent out of shape over a player who had 35 friggin points last season but seam to not give a crap that Williams is being allowed to test the market even though he was third on the team in scoring.

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Old
07-01-2009, 09:51 AM
  #53
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Worst case scenario for me, since I’m a Manny fan is that Manny has overpriced himself, the market opens, we sign a guy like Radek Bonk, Manny finds out he isn’t worth what he thought and ends up signing with someone else for the same deal we gave Bonk (or Pahlsson or whomever).
That would be sad for me and is why I’ve been somewhat fired up on this subject.

I still put my threshold at $2 million per. To go above that, I think we can find a better player than Manny (Madden and Chad Larose are two guys I like, assuming Larose can play center. Maybe Dominic Moore too). Going below that threshold, I think we sacrifice some ability (be it offense or defense), but not a drastic amount and you’re getting an 85-90 percent Manny (Fiddler and Pahlsson, I like. Goc would be fine too).

The second scenario is tempting because the more money you conserve here, the more that could be spent either to acquire a dman and/or bring back a guy like Williams who is versatile and useful.
If you can get Pahlsson for $1.5 and Manny takes $2.5 to play elsewhere, that's $1 million that can be spent elsewhere, but is Manny really worth $1 million more than Pahlsson? I don't think so.

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07-01-2009, 09:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Much ado about nothing. Sure he would be great to have back but fact is he can be replaced by someone who is going to be making less or the same. Why in the world are so many getting this bent out of shape over a player who had 35 friggin points last season but seam to not give a crap that Williams is being allowed to test the market even though he was third on the team in scoring.
I agree with you on Williams. He played 39 games for us last season, and had 29 points. How in the world do we not want/try to sign him is beyond me.

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07-01-2009, 10:04 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WapakJacketsFan View Post
I agree with you on Williams. He played 39 games for us last season, and had 29 points. How in the world do we not want/try to sign him is beyond me.
I'll second (third?) the sentiments on JWills. He may be somewhat less than defensively responsible, but if anyone can straighten up that aspect of his game it's Hitch. He puts up points, he can play on the PP, he can play center or winger and he fit in well with the team. I personally think bringing him back is a no-brainer.

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07-01-2009, 10:07 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by WapakJacketsFan View Post
I agree with you on Williams. He played 39 games for us last season, and had 29 points. How in the world do we not want/try to sign him is beyond me.
Hard to find a place for him on the team, in my opinion. He won't be in the top six. He's weak defensively and plays a low-intensity game, which doesn't make him too compatible with the bottom six either.

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07-01-2009, 10:10 AM
  #57
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Hard to find a place for him on the team, in my opinion. He won't be in the top six. He's weak defensively and plays a low-intensity game, which doesn't make him too compatible with the bottom six either.
and here I thought he did pretty well in that role for us last year

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07-01-2009, 10:25 AM
  #58
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Hard to find a place for him on the team, in my opinion. He won't be in the top six. He's weak defensively and plays a low-intensity game, which doesn't make him too compatible with the bottom six either.
I forgot to mention he was a +5 in his tenure with us, which leads me to believe he isn't all that much of a defensive liability.

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07-01-2009, 10:34 AM
  #59
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Here's my pitch for Williams:

Not that he’d want the role, but I like Williams as a PP specialist/depth. He’s very good on the PP (where we need all the help we can get) and he’d be a handy fall back if Filatov isn’t ready and/or there are injuries. I’d rather slide JWill back into the top 6 than Chimera or Torres (and I love Raffi).

This team has always struggled with scoring depth. Williams is a guy that provides that. We can always find guys to grind, but guys who can score goals has long been a weak point.

The problem, of course, is that if everyone is healthy and everyone is playing well, Williams is either on the 4th line or in the press box. Would he want that role?
I like having a fall-back though and not relying on the perfect situation. Williams, if he’d accept it, would be a nice plan B to have.

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Old
07-01-2009, 10:48 AM
  #60
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We know you know Peca won't be back-no big story there Hashmark..

As for Maholtra, his career is on the brink of being over and one of several reasons we were swept in the playoffs..

Time to move on Manny, we need better.


Same old same old...

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07-01-2009, 10:51 AM
  #61
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and here I thought he did pretty well in that role for us last year
I thought he was great for a while, mostly because he was on fire offensively. But as I watched him for the rest of the season, I became less and less impressed with how he played. I just think he has too much offensive talent to play outside of the top six, and too little of everything else to be our best option on the third line (given the other players we have to fit in). We'll miss his offense, more than likely.

If he has a decent salary, I'm fine with him being on the fourth and being used properly on the PP (and not as the point man). But frankly, I think there are teams out there that could find more (and better) use for him.

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Old
07-01-2009, 10:55 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
If his agent can sell Manny as being in that class and get him more than $3 million per, then he better earn himself a HUGE raise.

While Manny’s probably better defensively than those guys, I don’t see him as a comparable because his offense isn’t even close to them. Stoll’s had multiple 20 goal seasons and more than 60 points. Weiss has a 20 goal season and topped 60 points last year with 40+ assists. Hecht has never broke 60, but has been in the 50s several times and a consistent 15+ goal scorer for years. Filppula’s stats are similar to Manny’s, but he’s three years younger and both of his full seasons are still better than Manny’s in goals and points.

Manny’s best season was last year. A whopping 35 points (with Nash and Juice on his wings) and he’s averaged a shade over 10 goals a year in his five seasons here.

While he does several things well, $3 million+ per is an awful lot to pay for 10 goals. His offense isn’t improving with age and if he couldn’t make a quantum leap with Nash and Juice ridding shotgun, I don’t think he’s going to do it with Team X’s 3rd liners.

Personally, my ceiling was a deal at $2 million per (and even that I thought was high), even conceding that it could start out at $2.5-ish now and work its way down as the contract moved along.

That’d put him in a more appropriate class IMO (offensively limited guys with other skills) - Reinprecht, Pahlsson, Sillinger, Bonk (basically the same guys we’d look to replace him with).

Madden is somewhat comparable - similar career numbers, with Manny be several years younger - but Madden’s consistently put up more goals than Manny and is a 4-time Selke nominee.

Like I said, if he can get more, good for him, but bad for his new team’s budget. He’ll be the new Todd Marchant.
All of this.

I will add that although Madden and Pahlsson will be compariable in numbers, they are proven shutdown guys and can be trusted vs. other teams top players.


Last edited by hashmarks: 07-01-2009 at 11:01 AM.
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Old
07-01-2009, 11:00 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by WapakJacketsFan View Post
I agree with you on Williams. He played 39 games for us last season, and had 29 points. How in the world do we not want/try to sign him is beyond me.
Where does he fit? He isn't a real top 6 forward because he can't play vs. other teams best defensive players on a consistent basis and be trusted to be defensively responsible.

He isn't a bottom 6 forward either if you have one of those two lines as your checking line. He was only okay on the pp and is, yet another, 'tweener' player. We have a load of tweeners.

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07-01-2009, 11:11 AM
  #64
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Where does he fit? He isn't a real top 6 forward because he can't play vs. other teams best defensive players on a consistent basis and be trusted to be defensively responsible.

He isn't a bottom 6 forward either if you have one of those two lines as your checking line. He was only okay on the pp and is, yet another, 'tweener' player. We have a load of tweeners.
True, I don't want or expect him to play top 6 on a consistent basis. I agree, he is a tweener (God I hate that word ever since my oldest used it to describe herself).

Where do I see him fitting? 3rd/4th line duty on a nightly basis. PP duty. Fill in on the top lines if needed on short term. Playing wing or center, where ever he's needed.

I see him as versatile, and that's never a bad thing. Yes, he's better at certain positions and situations than others. But, as Kallio said, he is scoring depth. We have grinder depth. We don't have scoring depth.

I don't want to see him get a huge contract, but to not even offer him one given what he does bring to the team, is a bad idea, in my opinion.

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07-01-2009, 11:21 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by WapakJacketsFan View Post
True, I don't want or expect him to play top 6 on a consistent basis. I agree, he is a tweener (God I hate that word ever since my oldest used it to describe herself).

Where do I see him fitting? 3rd/4th line duty on a nightly basis. PP duty. Fill in on the top lines if needed on short term. Playing wing or center, where ever he's needed.
I think the jackets are tired of patchworking their roster together. Whether it happens short term or not, I believe they want to get guys in roles who can actually play the correct roles. The composition of our team last year was very much a patchwork variety and as the top 6 fills out, they also need to get guys with difinative roles in the bottom 6.

I see what you are saying about Williams and I like him too (although he is a better winger than center), but I am also ready for the team to start shaping up the right way.

Quote:
I don't want to see him get a huge contract, but to not even offer him one given what he does bring to the team, is a bad idea, in my opinion.
Not if they have a clear idea of what direction they want to head it isn't.

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Old
09-16-2009, 07:24 AM
  #66
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Anyone have any updates on where Manny may be headed? he has to be starting to think that he may have to head to Europe if he is going to get the kind of money he is after right now.

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09-16-2009, 08:01 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Anyone have any updates on where Manny may be headed? he has to be starting to think that he may have to head to Europe if he is going to get the kind of money he is after right now.
Right now he's one of the poster children for the awkward state of the market, so it's hard to say. I'm kind of surprised he hasn't gotten a tryout contract yet - but then again, we offered one to MAB and he said "I still want an NHL contract", so it could be a situation like that.

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09-16-2009, 08:17 AM
  #68
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From what I have heard he has had 3 offers on the table, one of them was a multi-year deal and two one year deals, and he turned them all down.

He has made his bed, albeit a half filled waterbed with no sheets on it, but he has to lie in it.

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09-16-2009, 09:04 AM
  #69
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Hmmm.......Scott call and give him an offer for fourth line center (with pay of a fourth line center/specialist)

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09-16-2009, 09:13 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Aging Goalie View Post
Hmmm.......Scott call and give him an offer for fourth line center (with pay of a fourth line center/specialist)
I'd like it. As odd as it sounds, a two-way deal might have to happen, though, seeing as it looks like 11 of our 12 forwards are locks & the potential that somebody could beat him out in training camp for the job.

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09-16-2009, 09:25 AM
  #71
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Even Fritsche got a PTO

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09-16-2009, 09:28 AM
  #72
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From what I have heard he has had 3 offers on the table, one of them was a multi-year deal and two one year deals, and he turned them all down.

He has made his bed, albeit a half filled waterbed with no sheets on it, but he has to lie in it.
I'm trying to figure out what exactly he plans to do...

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09-16-2009, 09:29 AM
  #73
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Maybe he just doesn't want to give up his NHLPA representative position w/ the blue jackets. Could keep some other guy from getting distracted by it during the season

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09-16-2009, 09:29 AM
  #74
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I like Manny, but this ship has sailed.

Even if he took $1 million or less at this point, I'd rather bank that cash, cross my fingers and hope it would be used to address needs during the season.

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09-16-2009, 09:32 AM
  #75
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I like Manny, but this ship has sailed.

Even if he took $1 million or less at this point, I'd rather bank that cash, cross my fingers and hope it would be used to address needs during the season.
I'm perhaps Manny's most ardent supporter, and even I can see this is the direction it's headed. While I would love to see Manny back in a CBJ sweater, I don't expect to see it.

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