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First, don't assume I didn't look at the Flames roster just because I didn't post the long winded explanation you will now find below.
I don't see how taking 40-50 goals out of the Flames lineup and replacing it with 12-15 (Bouw) makes you a better team? Imo, the obvious answer is it doesn't. When looking at the stats I considered this...taking 35 goals (50-15) out of the Flames roster moves you from 8th in goals for (where you finished in 08-09) to 22nd overall ahead of only MIN, OTT, NSH, TBL, PHX, LAK, NYR, NYI and COL and tell me where they finished last year. For arguments sake this trade keeps you about even on defence while adding a top winger on offence. The question then becomes are you better off with Cammalleri or Heatley on your team. I would choose Heatley but maybe I'm biased . Finally throw Jokinen in there and now you have something special...
Cammy 40 goals is being replaced by Jokinen's who were traded for at the deadline.
If you watched the Flames last year you know their problem is defense...they can lose say 20 goals and still be better off if they play better defense.
First, don't assume I didn't look at the Flames roster just because I didn't post the long winded explanation you will now find below.
I don't see how taking 40-50 goals out of the Flames lineup and replacing it with 12-15 (Bouw) makes you a better team? Imo, the obvious answer is it doesn't. When looking at the stats I considered this...taking 35 goals (50-15) out of the Flames roster moves you from 8th in goals for (where you finished in 08-09) to 22nd overall ahead of only MIN, OTT, NSH, TBL, PHX, LAK, NYR, NYI and COL and tell me where they finished last year. For arguments sake this trade keeps you about even on defence while adding a top winger on offence. The question then becomes are you better off with Cammalleri or Heatley on your team. I would choose Heatley but maybe I'm biased . Finally throw Jokinen in there and now you have something special...
We were ranked somewhere near the top 5 in offence if I recall, and 23rd in defense. Offense simply isn't an issue. And you're telling me that Dion Phaneuf and Jay Bouwmeester, two players that are just entering into their prime and are both highly touted towards making the 2010 Olympic Team, playing together, won't make our team better?
First, don't assume I didn't look at the Flames roster just because I didn't post the long winded explanation you will now find below.
I don't see how taking 40-50 goals out of the Flames lineup and replacing it with 12-15 (Bouw) makes you a better team? Imo, the obvious answer is it doesn't. When looking at the stats I considered this...taking 35 goals (50-15) out of the Flames roster moves you from 8th in goals for (where you finished in 08-09) to 22nd overall ahead of only MIN, OTT, NSH, TBL, PHX, LAK, NYR, NYI and COL and tell me where they finished last year. For arguments sake this trade keeps you about even on defence while adding a top winger on offence. The question then becomes are you better off with Cammalleri or Heatley on your team. I would choose Heatley but maybe I'm biased . Finally throw Jokinen in there and now you have something special...
Because Jarome and Joker won't rebound from poor seasons (by their standard)? Because Langkow and Bourque won't be playing full seasons? Because guys like Boyd and Moss won't be getting bigger roles offensively?
Phanuef for Heatley alone adds only $1mm to the Flames cap. Not sure what the big issue there is, especially if Cammy walks.
If JBo can be signed for $6mm this deal makes a lot of sense for Calgary. The Flames biggest problem IMO is a lack of speed and a 2nd scoring line. Their offense will be hurting without Cammy and Bertuzzi.
Phanuef for Heatley alone adds only $1mm to the Flames cap. Not sure what the big issue there is, especially if Cammy walks.
If JBo can be signed for $6mm this deal makes a lot of sense for Calgary. The Flames biggest problem IMO is a lack of speed and a 2nd scoring line. Their offense will be hurting without Cammy and Bertuzzi.
Phaneuf and one of our bad contracts. Heatley isn't enough to get Dion.
Heatley + Picard for Phaneuf + Moss (or Glencross)
I don't mean that Moss or Glencross have bad contracts, but who else? Langkow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish
Calgary would be nuts not to jump all over that deal, especially if they get Bouwmeester. Phaneuf is quite a bit overated in my books.
Yup. Iginla-Heatley = ouch
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48
People are very quick to throw Heatley under the bus. He is easily one of the top-5 most talented goalscorers in the game, and can be argued for top-3. You all underrate him to an incredible level.
Yup. Maybe he asked to be traded but that doesn't mean he will ask to be traded again, and his play on the ice is the most important for his next teams, he will score a ton of goals.
Doubt this is anywhere near true. It sounds like Spector has been listening to too many fan boards.
If Heatley goes suck when the coach is mean to him, hows his lack of character going to react to not one but two Sutters.
Sutter loves Phaneuf he's not going to trade him for a guy that quits on his team. If Phaneuf doesn't bounce back next year then you could look at a move, but nobody gives up on a potential franchise defenseman who's only 23 after one year.
Nobody is going to get paid more then Iginla on the Flames.
The Flames aren't going to increase the cap hit.
Right now it would have to be Heatley + for Phaneuf.
There is no reason why the Flames would be interested in a player like Heatley, they could do better if they were going to trade Phaneuf.
I agree with everything you say in your post except the last part. There's no way you get anything better value wise than Phaneuf for Heatley. A 50 goal scorer on a market value contract does not have no value. Who are you going to trade Phaneuf for who is better? Kovalchuck? Ovechkin? Malkin? Crosby? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Lecavelier? Iginla? . Not likely. Players like this don't become available very often, especially when they are on a decent contract. The alternative is to go pay Gaborik or Hossa $8million+. Those guys haven't ever scored 50 either.
I'd think you'd want to trade Phaneuf for depth rather than another 50 goal scorer though. I guess maybe a very good top 6 forward and top 4 'D' to be a deeper team? Anyways I just wanted to point out that Healtey for Phaneuf straight up is good value for both teams, not to say that it will or should happen.
Offence isn't the Flames' problem...it's damn DEFENCE. This team is probably better off with Phaneuf and J-Bo than J-Bo and Heater...J-Bo and Heater is probably equal to Phaneuf and Cammy and that got us no where in the playoffs this year.
This. Kipper faces way too many quality shots and plays way too many games. Sign J-Bo and a decent back up goalie and maybe Flames get out of first round this coming season.
Cammy 40 goals is being replaced by Jokinen's who were traded for at the deadline.
If you watched the Flames last year you know their problem is defense...they can lose say 20 goals and still be better off if they play better defense.
You can bet that is what Sutter will bring to the table. Keenan did a mediocre job of coaching the team and a bad job of handling Kipper's minutes. Phaneuf for Heatly is a fair trade but will not help the Flames improve as a team IMHO.
Don't know where Spector was coming from on this, I would think that having Phaneuf back under Sutter might snap him out of last year's funk.
But for fun, it couldn't be a one for one deal, why not really shake things up?
We were ranked somewhere near the top 5 in offence if I recall, and 23rd in defense. Offense simply isn't an issue. And you're telling me that Dion Phaneuf and Jay Bouwmeester, two players that are just entering into their prime and are both highly touted towards making the 2010 Olympic Team, playing together, won't make our team better?
You were ranked 8th as I stated in my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan
Cammy 40 goals is being replaced by Jokinen's who were traded for at the deadline.
If you watched the Flames last year you know their problem is defense...they can lose say 20 goals and still be better off if they play better defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Highlander
Because Jarome and Joker won't rebound from poor seasons (by their standard)? Because Langkow and Bourque won't be playing full seasons? Because guys like Boyd and Moss won't be getting bigger roles offensively?
The reason I didn't include Jokinen in the totals is because some rumours have him going to Ottawa with Phaneuf and a bit more heading back Calgary (players/prospects). That said I took a look at the stats again and while some guys didn't have the best year last year some guys also had career years and you can't expect that to happen year after year either. Overall things will probably balance out.
We (Senators) have next to no need going forward for Phaneuf.. He would be useful for one season then we'd have too many prosp[ects ready to take his place and at under 2 million..
We need forwards not a 6.5 mil underachiever with next to no defensive ability..
. Finally throw Jokinen in there and now you have something special...
. Not likely. Players like this don't become available very often, especially when they are on a decent contract. The alternative is to go pay Gaborik or Hossa $8million+. Those guys haven't ever scored 50 either. 
