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TSN: Heatley says "NO" TO EDM - Murray says deal is dead for now.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:23 PM
  #101
n8
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I would do Zherdev + Rosival (those two contracts would work out to even make this financially feasible) + Potter + 2nd. It'd be Sangunetti and a 1st if not for 1) $4M bonus 2) there is a ticking clock on the matter. 3) a trade was requested from their end (dealing from weakness).

I think that $4M has to factor into this somehow. Just like players with bad cap numbers, people forget just how much $4M is. In the RFA world, a $4M offer sheet translates to a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. There is some precedent for what that money should be worth.

oh yeah, Martin Havlat has every intention to resign with Chicago so you can scratch his name off the list. http://twitter.com/martinhavlat

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06-30-2009, 01:24 PM
  #102
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I'm barley following this, but the idea of trading Dubinsky in adeal to get Heatley just does not seem right.

I know we need goal scores, but Heatley just seems like more of the same.

Imo Heatley would be another in a long line of high priced stars that come to NYC and flame out.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
Although a Heatley-Tortorella combination seems like oil and water to me, this is a risk you have to take. This team needs scoring. Simply put, Heatley can provide that. Let's take a look at our options, shall we?

1. Gaborik- Questionable injury history, will cost more than Heatley's $7.5 million

2. Havlat- See number 1, but will cost less, but score less in a full season.

3. Gionta- Small, but had chemistry with Gomez. Would cost a lot less, but is getting up there in age. I don't see Sather signing any more former Devils.

4. Afinigenov- Sigh......pass

5. Cammalleri- You guys think Heatley would cause problems? This guy is worse. He'd probably cost about $6 million a year, but for lesser production.

6. Hossa- Probably by personal plan B. He'll be looking to cash in after taking a relative paycut to play in Detroit last year. The fact that he's unlikely to return to Detroit is an indication he's looking for at least 8 million/year long term, which is less than affordable right now.

There you have it. What would you rather have? Would you rather overpay AND lose a Gomez/Rozsival for next to nothing? Or take on a moderately priced contract and unload some salary at the same time?

Each of you is entitled to your own opinion, but for those of you balking at the possibility of Heatley, I better not see any of you complaining about the lack of scoring on this team ever again.
Those are the options, assuming we HAVE to solve this particular problem this year and that the only way to do it is to trade for/sign one of those players.

I don't agree with that. We really aren't in a position to add one of them as an UFA. We just don't have the cap space and we are unlikely to move any of our big contracts without bringing salary back.

We could trade for Heatley, but I'm not sure he's a good fit and I don't want to give up much for him.

But there is another option. We can be patient and look inwards for scoring. I expect the team in general to be better offensively playing in Tort's aggressive system. I also expect that we'll see improvement from players like Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski. We have players coming up like Grachev and Anisimov who are projected as top 6 players, and even Byers who can contribute from the 3rd or 4th line.

We also have Gilroy, Sangs and MDZ, at least one of which will help us THIS YEAR on the blue line. We'll get more production from our defense and maybe even our PP will be better.

We don't NEED Heatley. Not right now, anyway. What we need is to let our young guys continue to mature, get some kids into the lineup and try to fix our cap situation. We aren't winning the cup this year no matter what we do, so we should do everything we can to position ourselves for the future.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:28 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
People NEED to stop throwing Sanguinetti in every ******* trade proposal. The kid is going to be good. Just because he isnt the "shiny" new toy doesnt mean he isnt developing well and going to be good.

Rozsival, Zherdev, Potter/Byers, 2nd '10
I think it's more because he and Del Zotto are pretty much the same player, with DZ having more of an upside. Might as well use one as a valuable chip to address a need on the team.

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06-30-2009, 01:30 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
I think it's more because he and Del Zotto are pretty much the same player, with DZ having more of an upside. Might as well use one as a valuable chip to address a need on the team.
What is wrong with having multiple offensive d-men? If they develop properly they wont be negatives in the defensive zone and can put up a good amount of points every season and help spark the offense. If you want to trade them wait until they make the NHL and develop some good value. You dont trade a 21 y/o kid with 0 NHL games played because his value will be relatively low. Its not a good idea.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
I think that $4M has to factor into this somehow. Just like players with bad cap numbers, people forget just how much $4M is. In the RFA world, a $4M offer sheet translates to a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. There is some precedent for what that money should be worth.
$4M this year would only be 1st and 3rd, but even then, you can't equate that $4M to a $4M cap hit/offer sheet. It's purely money, with no impact on the cap. That $4M isn't even a consideration to the Rangers, though it obviously is to Ottowa and a bunch of other teams. Which is probably why we are one of the few teams with any interest in Heatley.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Those are the options, assuming we HAVE to solve this particular problem this year and that the only way to do it is to trade for/sign one of those players.

I don't agree with that. We really aren't in a position to add one of them as an UFA. We just don't have the cap space and we are unlikely to move any of our big contracts without bringing salary back.

We could trade for Heatley, but I'm not sure he's a good fit and I don't want to give up much for him.

But there is another option. We can be patient and look inwards for scoring. I expect the team in general to be better offensively playing in Tort's aggressive system. I also expect that we'll see improvement from players like Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski. We have players coming up like Grachev and Anisimov who are projected as top 6 players, and even Byers who can contribute from the 3rd or 4th line.

We also have Gilroy, Sangs and MDZ, at least one of which will help us THIS YEAR on the blue line. We'll get more production from our defense and maybe even our PP will be better.

We don't NEED Heatley. Not right now, anyway. What we need is to let our young guys continue to mature, get some kids into the lineup and try to fix our cap situation. We aren't winning the cup this year no matter what we do, so we should do everything we can to position ourselves for the future.

Agreed on almost all accounts. Believe me, I have the same philosophy as far as letting the kids play and develop right in front of us. I suppose most of my point was summed up in the last sentence of my post.

However, I can't help but to second guess my feelings on the issue a little bit. While I have faith Torts' high tempo system will produce a more potent offense, I'm not sure if the group we currently have is up to the task quite yet. It's nice to have the toolbox, but it's useless without the tools.

About your point about the defense corps., you said it yourself that MDZ, Sangs, and Gilroy are all capable of playing this season and contributing. Letting go of Rozsival and his 5 million and bringing in a sniper is addition by subtraction in that regard, and upgrades the team for the long run in a great way.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:49 PM
  #108
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We're in a ****** situation no matter how you look at it. We can either:

A) Make a move for Heatley or other high priced free agent (such as Gaborik) and hopefully improve our scoring IF they work out, yet if they don't work out we'll be indebted to another terrible contract.

or

B) Make no moves at all or make a play for a minor goal scorer equal to Antropov and sit through another season of scoring 1 or 2 goals per game and relying on Henrik to win every close game, sucking it up, and waiting till next off-season while developing our young core of players.


Sather screwed the team up so bad that it is going to take a lot more than 1 off-season to improve.

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:51 PM
  #109
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B) Make no moves at all or make a play for a minor goal scorer equal to Antropov and sit through another season of scoring 1 or 2 goals per game and relying on Henrik to win every close game, sucking it up, and waiting till next off-season
Worst part about that situation is we still probably end up between 6 and 12 in the conference and don't get a high pick, while being in the exact same situation as we are now next year.

I vote swing for the fences, because blowing it up and building through the draft just isn't an option (unfortunately).

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:52 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Yea, but if he is complaining about ice time being handed to him without earning it with hard work, in Ottawa...

You really think anything will change in NY with Tortorella?? Torts isn't just going to hand the guy ice time unless he busts his butt every shift.

And here, he won't have guys like Alfredsson and Spezza to spoon feed him the puck...

Heatley would be a disaster in NYC. A 7+ mil, whiny disaster.
LOL at a disaster in NYC...Come on this franchise can't win. Who's whiiining now?

The guy isnt even here yet and hes already an overpaid bust?

All year we *****ed that Gomez has no one to pass too? Who better than a bona fide 50 goal scorer.

Obviously Ottawa is broken...who knows why? Seems to me Heater is not the first star to want out of the gem that is Ottawa hockey.

I think Torts will LOVE having a Dany Heatley on his team. Love It

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Old
06-30-2009, 01:54 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
We can come to terms with the fact that we are not winning the Stanley Cup with Heatley or anyone else available.

Let the youth develop.

Dump some salary.

Sign Kovalchuk next summer.

A quick fix is not going to work. And we will be stuck with ANOTHER 7+ mil lousy contract.
This

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:01 PM
  #112
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We can come to terms with the fact that we are not winning the Stanley Cup with Heatley or anyone else available.

Let the youth develop.

Dump some salary.

Sign Kovalchuk next summer.

A quick fix is not going to work. And we will be stuck with ANOTHER 7+ mil lousy contract.
I agree. HOPEFULLY we can sign him though. BUT WHAT IF WE DON'T?

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
LOL at a disaster in NYC...Come on this franchise can't win. Who's whiiining now?

The guy isnt even here yet and hes already an overpaid bust?

All year we *****ed that Gomez has no one to pass too? Who better than a bona fide 50 goal scorer.

Obviously Ottawa is broken...who knows why? Seems to me Heater is not the first star to want out of the gem that is Ottawa hockey.

I think Torts will LOVE having a Dany Heatley on his team. Love It
7+ million dollars/year

If we are trading for Heatley, Gomez is going back the other way. So Gomez having someone to pass to is irrelevant.

We are not going to have 4 guys on the team making 6.5+ mil per year, 3 of them making 7+.

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06-30-2009, 02:07 PM
  #114
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I have a feeling Kovalchuk will make over 8-9 million. He's going to be one of the best UFA's available in years

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:08 PM
  #115
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It would be nice to get Heatley to play with Gomez BUT I still wouldnt move Dubinsky for him. I like having young players who play hard and have some developing still to do. Heatley to me would be a luxury, but not a necessity because either way, unless Sather can make some significant changes to this team for next season I dont see them as cup favorites.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:10 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
7+ million dollars/year

If we are trading for Heatley, Gomez is going back the other way. So Gomez having someone to pass to is irrelevant.

We are not going to have 4 guys on the team making 6.5+ mil per year, 3 of them making 7+.
If Torts is serious about adding youth to the lineup this year then moving Rozsival and Zherdev would open up the cap space necessary for this upcoming season. It may cause some problems in the future but trades can be made to accomodate as things come up. If he can be had for cheap then it is a legit answer to the scoring problems.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:18 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
$4M this year would only be 1st and 3rd, but even then, you can't equate that $4M to a $4M cap hit/offer sheet. It's purely money, with no impact on the cap. That $4M isn't even a consideration to the Rangers, though it obviously is to Ottowa and a bunch of other teams. Which is probably why we are one of the few teams with any interest in Heatley.
yeah, I'm not saying it should be worth that much only that it must be considered which is reflected in the lower offer of

Rosival Zherdev Potter 2nd
instead of
Rosival Zherdev Sanguinetti 1st

if this was any other day in the NHL with no stipulations, no bonuses, no deadlines, no special cases, Heatley is totally worth that second package but because of all the complicating factors, Ottawa gets the first package. We don't need to reach for Heatley that much as to offer a package that could really hurt us. I mean after 105 pts, dropping to 82, then 72, who is to say next season he doesn't score 62? That would be a ****ing disaster. Unless it was 62 goals.

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06-30-2009, 02:19 PM
  #118
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No way we should move all the assets being discussed in this thread for Heatley.
I posted this in the Plan A thread, will just copy it here.

Plan A... Suck it up for another year.

With the team we have Lundquist gives us a good chance of getting into the PO's. No one wants our bad contracts, next year Rozy becomes moveable for an actual return. Drury will have only 2yrs left which may make him moveable minus the NMC. Gomez and Redden we are stuck with most likely for a few more yrs. We won't be adding any long term or expensive contracts this summer unless we move our own and that will cost us assets, no thanks.
No Heatley, he is a great offensive player, but he is soft, does not backcheck, is a mediocre skater which does not necessarily fit Torts system, and will not help us challenge for anything more than a trip to the 2nd round. I think if Heater comes here it ends ugly. This is the second team he has asked to be traded from, maybe you give him a pass with the tragedy in Atlanta.
We will have some quality prospects coming up in the next few years, hopefully a couple of these guys will prove to be legit. This year we weather the storm and try to move money over the next yr+ so we can try to build around what looks to be a promising core.
If Slats can work some magic in the next month or two great, I just don't see it.

EDIT: This is like Deja Vu.
"it seems I have been here before"


And on that note I see this ending poorly. This is how the Rangers operate, trading young assets for older quick fix players that rarely deliver (all praise #11) always have always will.
I will be shocked ( but thrilled) if Heatley is not a Ranger this season.


Last edited by N9Y4R: 06-30-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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Old
06-30-2009, 02:20 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
We can come to terms with the fact that we are not winning the Stanley Cup with Heatley or anyone else available.
You can't be going into a new season with that attitude.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:20 PM
  #120
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I have a feeling Kovalchuk will make over 8-9 million. He's going to be one of the best UFA's available in years
we can fit Heatley in this year if they accept Zherdev and Rosival. If we can trade Gomez (MTL?) then we can reunite Heatley and Kovalchuk.

Heatley-Dubinsky-Kovalchuk anyone?
one can dream.

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06-30-2009, 02:21 PM
  #121
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How about this??

Rosival-Dubi for Heatley

Get rid of rozi's cap to get heatley..

Sign Zherdev and CALLY NO MATTER WHAT!!! they will our future

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:23 PM
  #122
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where've you been? Go to the Senators shopping Heatley Thread.

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Old
06-30-2009, 02:23 PM
  #123
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You can't be going into a new season with that attitude.
God forbid anyone be realistic here... it's all butterscotch and rainbows and butterflies. New York Rangers, Stanley Cup Champions 2010!

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06-30-2009, 02:24 PM
  #124
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There is no need to create a proposal thread when there are 1000+ entries regarding the subject already.

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06-30-2009, 02:25 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
We're in a ****** situation no matter how you look at it. We can either:

A) Make a move for Heatley or other high priced free agent (such as Gaborik) and hopefully improve our scoring IF they work out, yet if they don't work out we'll be indebted to another terrible contract.
I disagree Heatley is not a horrible contract, and it is so much less of a risk than Gabby. Heatley is a legit sniper. Putting him on the Rangers makes them 1000 times better than last season.

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