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Salary Cap/Lineup Discussion (Full contract chart 1st post)

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Old
07-12-2009, 06:47 PM
  #251
OnMyOwn
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if tangradi is healthy for camp, he makes the team over caputi IMO. he's just a better talent and will probably translate better to the NHL style than caputi will.

they are both excellent prospects though.

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Old
07-12-2009, 07:40 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
Why couldnt we still trade Godard? Is that not possible? What about Gonchars rumored extension that could drop his cap to 4million? Is that not a possibility?

Would that not be another 1.75 million in cap room?

We have currently 2.1 in cap space. 2.1-1.6(3-1.4) is 500,000. 500,000 + 1.75= 2.25mill.

So, we COULD have 2.25 for a 7th dman, injures, and a back up goalie. Is that enough for you? 2nd goalie and a 7th d man could easily be around 1.4 and then a million for injuries; sounds good to me.

Saying that it can't happen makes you look like a dumby. I am sure you also thought Guerin signing for 2million or Fedetenko signing for 1.8 were not going to happen either. Am I right? Way to be open minded.
In fact I said several times that I thought Guerin would be signed by us for around 2 million or not at all, and was optimistic for that. That Feds signed for 1.8 I don't think anyone had latched on to before it happened.

As for you seemingly being offended.... I added a smiley which you could have understood to signal 'tongue in cheek remark', but didn't.

The rest of your post I think 'Letang's Hair' already addressed very well and more succinctly than I would.

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Old
07-12-2009, 08:18 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
He's surprisingly productive for playing most of last season on the 3rd line.

I know some people say "don't do that to Staal", but what about Kennedy? His play and production has earned a promotion to the top-6 in my opinion.
I hate that argument as well. At what point is it Staal's job to make his wingers a little better-- as we see with Sid and Geno? Granted, if he's starting with Cooke and Dupuis, that hurts him. But once Talbot is back, he'll have one of Max or TK.

It seems a little like the football argument of getting a great QB some great WR-- at what point is it the job of the QB to raise the level of the WR's he's got?

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07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnMyOwn View Post
if tangradi is healthy for camp, he makes the team over caputi IMO. he's just a better talent and will probably translate better to the NHL style than caputi will.

they are both excellent prospects though.
My thoughts too, I see Tangradi as a legitimate top 6 forward, maybe a perennial 25-30 goal scorer. Luca arguably has that potential as well but based on what I've seen of him at WBS I'm thinking closer to 3rd line LW, who can become a 15-20 goal/40 point guy. That's what we need though, if both pan out as legitimate top 9 LWs it'd be a real boon for the organization.

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Old
07-13-2009, 12:20 PM
  #255
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Caputi is a year ahead of Tangradi in terms of pro development but I see Eric as the bigger talent as well. If one of our "big" 4 winger prospects (including Veilleux and CPZ) becomes a top 6 forward and another a bottom 6er, we're good. This upcoming season will be very interesting with all four playing on the same team in WBS.

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Old
07-13-2009, 03:02 PM
  #256
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I have been under the impression that Veilleux has been playing center throughout Juniors, which would mean that this year in WBS will be his first time really playing wing.

Am I right for those of you who have seen him play?

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Old
07-13-2009, 03:30 PM
  #257
Big McLargehuge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I have been under the impression that Veilleux has been playing center throughout Juniors, which would mean that this year in WBS will be his first time really playing wing.

Am I right for those of you who have seen him play?
You are correct. He has a body built for center, but its obvious he's not cracking this line-up as a center so you do what you have to do.


As for the temporary second line spot...I'm pulling for Kennedy getting the promotion with the chance of staying there full time with Jeffrey filling in on the third line.

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07-13-2009, 03:37 PM
  #258
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I really would love to see TFK get a 20 game tryout with Crosby.

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Old
07-13-2009, 04:00 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
You are correct. He has a body built for center, but its obvious he's not cracking this line-up as a center so you do what you have to do.


As for the temporary second line spot...I'm pulling for Kennedy getting the promotion with the chance of staying there full time with Jeffrey filling in on the third line.
Interesting. Sounds to be a mighty big project.

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Old
07-13-2009, 05:02 PM
  #260
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Caputi is a year ahead of Tangradi in terms of pro development but I see Eric as the bigger talent as well. If one of our "big" 4 winger prospects (including Veilleux and CPZ) becomes a top 6 forward and another a bottom 6er, we're good. This upcoming season will be very interesting with all four playing on the same team in WBS.
I think these are the Pens legit fwd. prospects (which is why I have followed all of them so closely):

Tangradi
Veilleux
Johnson
Caputi
CPZ
Jeffrey

If I could put money on two of them to become impact NHLers, I would place my roll on Tangradi and Johnson. Both of their styles are perfect for playing wing on the big club.

Both have a nice combo of skill, character and desire. When I watch them I can't find any holes in their game that worry me.

Veilleux as everyone probably knows by now has sick skills, but I am not sure how he will transition to wing at the pro level... and as has been mentioned many times, does he care enough to be a pro?

With Caputi, even if you put aside his immaturity, I don't see the high end skill like I do with Tangradi and Johnson. He could become a legit top 6 guy, but I bet his ceiling will most likely be a good third liner.

CPZ is a huge wildcard... he could max out and be a Ryan Smyth type... or be an AHL journeyman...

Jeffrey is going to be an NHLer... no doubt in my mind. He is such a smart hockey player with great instincts, but his offensive game is pretty limited... not sure where he fits right now. He is an ideal third line center... but so is Staal...

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Old
07-13-2009, 06:54 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
I really would love to see TFK get a 20 game tryout with Crosby.
Bill Guerin.

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Old
07-13-2009, 07:12 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Caputi is a year ahead of Tangradi in terms of pro development but I see Eric as the bigger talent as well. If one of our "big" 4 winger prospects (including Veilleux and CPZ) becomes a top 6 forward and another a bottom 6er, we're good. This upcoming season will be very interesting with all four playing on the same team in WBS.
Agreed, Tangradi could be a special player and, worst case scenario, a great bottom 6er.

With Caputi, I see a guy who should start out on the fourth line, see 8 minutes a night and maybe a PK here and there. Tell him to concentrate on taking "smart" penalties and playing a sound defensive game, and hope that eventually those offensive instincts around the net that he showed in the CHL and WBS start to emerge as he becomes more comfortable. If he gets his head on straight, there's a good chance we see him develop into a defensive 20-20 guy that is both affordable and versatile.

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:00 PM
  #263
D Heinze
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I may just be getting ballsy because the Penguins just won the cup. And I KNOW I am beating a horse that is beyond dead, but I can't resist.

What do you guys think of this line-up for the Max-injured interim:

Kunitz -Crosby -Guerin
Fedotenko -Malkin -Staal
Cooke - Rupp - Kennedy
Dupuis - Jeffrey - Adams

I know I know. We have a cup-winning formula in the 3-deep centers and probably need to keep Staal's minutes down for the PK, but I would have a heart attack if Staal broke out in a 30-goal year and became a PP monster.

Plus I want to see how Jeffery does with some decent NHL minutes

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Old
07-13-2009, 11:22 PM
  #264
AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
I really would love to see TFK get a 20 game tryout with Crosby.
The problem with that is none of Crosby's wingers (with whom he has great chemistry) are injured at this point in time. Malkin seems a bit easier to develop chemistry with, plus his right winger for the playoffs last year (Talbot) is out for the first two months of the season.

I have no doubt Kennedy moves into the top six for the start of the season, but it probably won't be on Malkin's line. That's unless Tangradi or Caputi absolutely wows the brass in training camp and earns that spot instead, but I doubt it. Either Tangradi, Caputi or Jeffrey will likely make the team now. Jeffrey is the best possibility because he could play in a bottom six role or as an extra with less hindrance to his development.

Opening night possible lines:

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Fedotenko-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
[Godard/Jeffrey]-Rupp-Adams

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Heinze View Post
I may just be getting ballsy because the Penguins just won the cup. And I KNOW I am beating a horse that is beyond dead, but I can't resist.

What do you guys think of this line-up for the Max-injured interim:

Kunitz -Crosby -Guerin
Fedotenko -Malkin -Staal
Cooke - Rupp - Kennedy
Dupuis - Jeffrey - Adams

I know I know. We have a cup-winning formula in the 3-deep centers and probably need to keep Staal's minutes down for the PK, but I would have a heart attack if Staal broke out in a 30-goal year and became a PP monster.

Plus I want to see how Jeffery does with some decent NHL minutes
The Penguins' all-world depth down the middle is completely down the ******* with that lineup.

Jordan Staal is a pure center. He has proven time and time again that it doesn't work well to move him to wing, even as nice as it looks to have him there on paper.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:19 AM
  #265
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
What has Caputi done to justify getting a crack at a top 6 role before Kennedy?

I really think some people around here overrate Caputi due to the fact that we had no one else in the system for so long. I think Caputi will most likely be a very good 3rd line player, with Chris Kunitz being Caputi's upside.
My main point was why tinker with two lines at one time. Line 1 and line 3 are set.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:40 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
The problem with that is none of Crosby's wingers (with whom he has great chemistry) are injured at this point in time. Malkin seems a bit easier to develop chemistry with, plus his right winger for the playoffs last year (Talbot) is out for the first two months of the season.

I have no doubt Kennedy moves into the top six for the start of the season, but it probably won't be on Malkin's line. That's unless Tangradi or Caputi absolutely wows the brass in training camp and earns that spot instead, but I doubt it. Either Tangradi, Caputi or Jeffrey will likely make the team now. Jeffrey is the best possibility because he could play in a bottom six role or as an extra with less hindrance to his development.

Opening night possible lines:

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Fedotenko-Malkin-Kennedy
Cooke-Staal-Dupuis
[Godard/Jeffrey]-Rupp-Adams


The Penguins' all-world depth down the middle is completely down the ******* with that lineup.

Jordan Staal is a pure center. He has proven time and time again that it doesn't work well to move him to wing, even as nice as it looks to have him there on paper.
I like Staal more @ center too. I wouldn't say he couldn't play wing 1 day yet, though. The guy is only 20 years old. Yes, he isn't a natural winger, but he could learn how to play the position more effectively in time since he's still ridiculously young.

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Old
07-14-2009, 07:43 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by odds View Post
My main point was why tinker with two lines at one time. Line 1 and line 3 are set.
Set unless an injury happens. It has...so...

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Old
07-14-2009, 09:55 AM
  #268
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....and as regards Pesonen, he apparently does not believe that there'll be room for him with Pittsburgh next season....

Perhaps one of our resident Suomi-members could translate in full.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/jaakiekko...2009/07/914396

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:16 AM
  #269
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The way I see things, the two players most susceptible to moving to RW to take Talbot's place in the interim are Fedotenko and Cooke. They seem to be the most comfortable on the other side of our LW's. Cooke actually played quite well when placed there to replace Bertuzzi in Vancouver. Fedotenko and Stillman went back and forth in TB as Lecavalier's wingers in their Cup year.

So, barring a Petr Sykora re-signing or long-shot RW with a monster training camp (such as a Nick Johnson or Nick Petersen), I think we may start camp like this...

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Caputi/Tangradi/Dupuis/Zabotel-Malkin-Fedotenko
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy
Rupp/Adams-Adams/Rupp-Godard

We could flip-flop Fedotenko and Cooke if Cooke proves to be the better RW. We may even see both playing with Geno to start off, and the rookie gets moved to the Staal line to ease them into the NHL.

Ideally, one of the youngsters takes the ball and runs with it, and claim a top-six winger spot right off the get-go.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:44 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
....and as regards Pesonen, he apparently does not believe that there'll be room for him with Pittsburgh next season....

Perhaps one of our resident Suomi-members could translate in full.
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/jaakiekko...2009/07/914396
- "I don't believe, that Pittsburgh has a place for me at next season. Pittsburgh's roster seems to be full of forwards and interest towards me seems to be relented."

- "Pretty many NHL-club has shown interest to me. Let's see, if one them is really after me."

- "At some point, I really have to scale my options from Europe, if I won't hear anything from NHL. I don't want to put any deadline to my contract, but it would be good to get things happening at early of August."

Sorry about my grammar.

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Old
07-14-2009, 12:59 PM
  #271
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Thanks mate!



Cuddle him, Bylsma!

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07-14-2009, 01:04 PM
  #272
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I see no reason to bring Pesonen back. He's right, we have 13 forwards on one-way deals, he's just not in the picture.

The exits of Minard and Pesonen will mean bigger offensive roles for Caputi, Tangradi and Johnson, in Wilkes-Barre. That's good news.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:10 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
I see no reason to bring Pesonen back. He's right, we have 13 forwards on one-way deals, he's just not in the picture.
Until Pesonen has played in the NHL - with us or with others - I will maintain that this is a mistake.

The top6 is set but for Malkin's right wing. We're looking at Talbot there at present, and since he will be out injured in the beginning we're looking at Dupuis, or moving up Kennedy or Cooke from the (very nice) third line for that matter.

Pesonen is a better top6 player than all of these guys with the potential exception of Kennedy. And I KNOW that I have nothing to point to to prove that at the NHL level, but if we could offload Dupuis tomorrow and sign Pesonen I'd be a happy camper just the same.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:29 PM
  #274
Muscles4Malkin
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Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
Until Pesonen has played in the NHL - with us or with others - I will maintain that this is a mistake.

The top6 is set but for Malkin's right wing. We're looking at Talbot there at present, and since he will be out injured in the beginning we're looking at Dupuis, or moving up Kennedy or Cooke from the (very nice) third line for that matter.

Pesonen is a better top6 player than all of these guys with the potential exception of Kennedy. And I KNOW that I have nothing to point to to prove that at the NHL level, but if we could offload Dupuis tomorrow and sign Pesonen I'd be a happy camper just the same.
I 100% agree. Pesonen was great in AHL, ruled in SM-liiga, but because of Therrien, he didn't get a leggit chance yet to show his skills. He has been grinding role too before in SM-liiga, before he got the chance to play in bigger role.

I'm pretty sad that Shero don't see him as possible Malkin's winger now that Fedotenko is signed. It's too bad. But..this is life. Maybe he gets a chance in other team and shows what he's made of.

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Old
07-14-2009, 01:42 PM
  #275
Jag68Sid87
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I agree with Jacob, it's time to move on. Tangradi, Caputi, Johnson, Zabotel, heck even Petersen...they need to play. And maybe even Veilleux gets a conversion to wing.

Last year was needed to bridge the gap because our winger prospects were junior-aged.

Signing a Pesonen and inserting him into the top six is not what Stanley Cup champions do.

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