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Old
07-02-2009, 11:36 AM
  #101
ColePens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
I just think Rupp is far grittier than Ziggy.

Ziggy better at faceoffs.

Shero clearly doesn't value Ziggy that high and that says a lot to me. He could have given Ziggy the same deal that he gave Rupp, but he didn't. He clearly thinks Rupp > Ziggy. I'll trust Shero on this one.
Lol.. please don't throw that ******** at me. You don't know what Shero does/doesn't value. None of us do and none of us will. All the reports that came out made the agent of Ziggy sound like he was playing hardball w/ Shero.

You just don't know what went on and it's a joke that you even try to make that one of your valid points. All we know is that he's a good discussion pt here on the boards and was valuable enough to attain during the regular season last year. Anything beyond that... all went on behind closed doors.

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Old
07-02-2009, 11:48 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Lol.. please don't throw that ******** at me. You don't know what Shero does/doesn't value. None of us do and none of us will. All the reports that came out made the agent of Ziggy sound like he was playing hardball w/ Shero.

You just don't know what went on and it's a joke that you even try to make that one of your valid points. All we know is that he's a good discussion pt here on the boards and was valuable enough to attain during the regular season last year. Anything beyond that... all went on behind closed doors.
If Shero wanted Ziggy signed then he'd be signed! The guy only made like 600k last year and was on waivers and had a major injury and couldn't really increase his value because of it.

Shero clearly didn't want to meet the asking price of Ziggy. If he offered Ziggy a raise from around 600k to the 800k deal that he gave Rupp then Ziggy would be signed imo. I take that as Shero doesn't think Ziggy's worth it. He doesn't think he's as good as Rupp.

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:01 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
If Shero wanted Ziggy signed then he'd be signed! The guy only made like 600k last year and was on waivers and had a major injury and couldn't really increase his value because of it.

Shero clearly didn't want to meet the asking price of Ziggy. If he offered Ziggy a raise from around 600k to the 800k deal that he gave Rupp then Ziggy would be signed imo. I take that as Shero doesn't think Ziggy's worth it. He doesn't think he's as good as Rupp.
You can't be serious...?

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:04 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You can't be serious...?
Why are you acting like this guy's a God or something? He played 22 damn games last year after being picked up off ****ing waivers. How do you increase your value by getting claimed off waivers, playing 22 games and ****ing your shoulder up?

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:19 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
To me it's Grit > Faceoffs when it comes to the bottom 6 guys.

Faceoffs are important, but Staal or somebody else needs to start winning them and likely can with maturity/development. We shouldn't need a specialist to get the job done.
Lost defensive zone faceoffs, particularly on the penalty kill, seem to result in a great deal more goals against the team than a 'gritty' player such as Adams adds to the team.

If Ziggy signs for 6-800k then I think Shero messed up.

I think Ziggy isn't signed yet because he's trying to get Dupuis money however. I think he's trying to get 1.5 mill, get his big payday now when he's in his prime.

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:19 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Why are you acting like this guy's a God or something? He played 22 damn games last year after being picked up off ****ing waivers. How do you increase your value by getting claimed off waivers, playing 22 games and ****ing your shoulder up?
1) Go back and watch the tape. You clearly have not done any homework on analyzing Ziggy's worth to this team at all.

2) You have no clue what Shero is thinking about.. so why try to analyze it? Focus on what the player brings to the table and go from there.

3) Let's not hijack this thread and just agree to disagree right now.

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07-02-2009, 12:31 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
1) Go back and watch the tape. You clearly have not done any homework on analyzing Ziggy's worth to this team at all.

2) You have no clue what Shero is thinking about.. so why try to analyze it? Focus on what the player brings to the table and go from there.

3) Let's not hijack this thread and just agree to disagree right now.
I respect your opinion Cole, but a few things.

1. I watch as many games as you and anybody else on the board so spare me the watch the tape garbage.

2. His worth to our team? A whopping 22 games? and they won the cup without him too. Seems real valuable to me.

3. Why can't somebody look at Shero's moves and analyze them? He's doing these moves for a reason. I got a right to take a stab at what he's thinking.

4. I'll be waiting for somebody to give a guy like Ziggy that was on waivers last year, only played 22 games last year, was in the AHL the year before last year and is also coming off of a bad shoulder injury Dupuis money. If someone offers him 1.0 - 1.4 million than I'll admit to you I was wrong Cole. I just don't think Shero or any other GM values him that much. I think Shero valued Rupp more. I'm not speaking for Shero. I'm just giving my opinion about it.

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07-02-2009, 12:47 PM
  #108
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If Ziggy values himself at 1.5, then he shouldn't be signed. Simple as that.

But if there's an error being made, it's in assuming that Ziggy turned down the same offer that Rupp got.

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Old
07-02-2009, 12:56 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
What do you guys think about trading Dupuis and a pick to Boston for Marco Sturm? Salary dump (2 million saved) for the Bruins while we're getting a top 6 winger for effectively 2.1 million till 2011.

Sturm is a great skater who can play both special teams and is usually good for 25 goals and 50 points. He's a bit soft though and has never hit 30 goals in his career. Except for last season (where he missed 63 games with a concussion and a knee injury) he was also very durable, playing 760 of a possible 820 games. Has 2 years @ 3.5 million left on his contract.
Actually I like this idea a lot, but I don't think the Bruins would want any players back for him at all, just prospects/draft picks since they are so up against the cap right now. And I don't think he's that soft, he's just not a big hitter.

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Old
07-02-2009, 01:01 PM
  #110
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from reading reports out of both papers, it seemed clear that shero was looking to sign only one of adams or zigomanis. i would speculate that rupp was a guy he had on his mind to target from the get-go, but the important point is that signing both did not appear to be an option.

my opinion: adams signed for dirt cheap, which is why he's here and zigomanis is not. i don't think you can read into it any more than that.

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Old
07-02-2009, 01:35 PM
  #111
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I think what Rupp brings to the table is valuable to us because he does a few things.

He can fight. Not as well as Godard, but he can hold his own. Could make Godard expendable.

Rupp can play 8 mins a game. Godard cannot.

Dupuis doesn't have a place on this team. Rupp makes 600k less, and can fill the role Dupuis would be slotted into on this team.

So how I see it, with one signing, Shero made 2 players expendable. Not to mention, that would free up about 1.3 million is cap space.

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Old
07-02-2009, 01:51 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG32005 View Post
I think what Rupp brings to the table is valuable to us because he does a few things.

He can fight. Not as well as Godard, but he can hold his own. Could make Godard expendable.

Rupp can play 8 mins a game. Godard cannot.

Dupuis doesn't have a place on this team. Rupp makes 600k less, and can fill the role Dupuis would be slotted into on this team.

So how I see it, with one signing, Shero made 2 players expendable. Not to mention, that would free up about 1.3 million is cap space.
The Wings somehow survive without an enforcer so if Godard gets moved, oh well.

Godard spent the entire playoffs in the press box...

Rupp has playoff experience and he can throw down well enough... if the NJ Devils trusted him in those situations, that's good enough for me.

It isn't very hard to figure out who has more value.

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Old
07-02-2009, 01:55 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly> View Post
The Wings somehow survive without an enforcer so if Godard gets moved, oh well.

Godard spent the entire playoffs in the press box...

Rupp has playoff experience and he can throw down well enough... if the NJ Devils trusted him in those situations, that's good enough for me.

It isn't very hard to figure out who has more value.
Agreed completely, Jiggy.

I was reasonably content, upon hearing we signed Rupp, despite still having Godard on the roster. I'll admit though, that I'm hoping those ******** rumors of moving Dupuis and Godard have some steam.

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Old
07-02-2009, 03:23 PM
  #114
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You don't need an enforcer to fight Riley Cote halfway through the 1st. You need some guy to pounce on Pronger and hit him in the nose the second he takes a liberty with Crosby.

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Old
07-02-2009, 04:07 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
from reading reports out of both papers, it seemed clear that shero was looking to sign only one of adams or zigomanis. i would speculate that rupp was a guy he had on his mind to target from the get-go, but the important point is that signing both did not appear to be an option.

my opinion: adams signed for dirt cheap, which is why he's here and zigomanis is not. i don't think you can read into it any more than that.
Maybe this is a sign that Shero is confident in his bottom-6 forwards and rather than have one of them float up to the second line, LC and ET will get serious shots in training camp.

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Old
07-02-2009, 04:10 PM
  #116
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I'd like to see us take the gamble of signing Lovejoy to a two-year, one-way deal with a bottom-of-the-barrel cap hit.

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Old
07-02-2009, 08:41 PM
  #117
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I would like:

Trade Dupuis and Godard
Sign Bertuzzi(1.5 for 1 year) and Gauthier(2mil for 2-3year)
Trade for Ponikarovsky

Bertuzzi, Gauthier, Poni, and Rupp would add a lot of size and strength around the penguins core.

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Bertuzzi Enough size and grit on the top 2 lines; we do not need an enforcer besides Rupp.
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy Perfect 3rd line maybe the best in the league
Talbot-Rupp-Adams Perfect 4th line skill, speed, hitting ability, and Talbot can fill in top 2 line duty if there is an injury

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Gauthier
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury
Curry

That would be one tough team to play against. The size and hitting ability would be unmatched.

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Old
07-02-2009, 08:56 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
I would like:

Trade Dupuis and Godard
Sign Bertuzzi(1.5 for 1 year) and Gauthier(2mil for 2-3year)
Trade for Ponikarovsky

Bertuzzi, Gauthier, Poni, and Rupp would add a lot of size and strength around the penguins core.

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Bertuzzi Enough size and grit on the top 2 lines; we do not need an enforcer besides Rupp.
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy Perfect 3rd line maybe the best in the league
Talbot-Rupp-Adams Perfect 4th line skill, speed, hitting ability, and Talbot can fill in top 2 line duty if there is an injury

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Gauthier
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury
Curry

That would be one tough team to play against. The size and hitting ability would be unmatched.
Gauthier? Denis Gauthier? The guy who hasn't been effective since the "new NHL" implemented rules about clutching and grabbing, thus negating the effect of slow moving blueliners?

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:03 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
I would like:

Trade Dupuis and Godard
Sign Bertuzzi(1.5 for 1 year) and Gauthier(2mil for 2-3year)
Trade for Ponikarovsky

Bertuzzi, Gauthier, Poni, and Rupp would add a lot of size and strength around the penguins core.

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Bertuzzi Enough size and grit on the top 2 lines; we do not need an enforcer besides Rupp.
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy Perfect 3rd line maybe the best in the league
Talbot-Rupp-Adams Perfect 4th line skill, speed, hitting ability, and Talbot can fill in top 2 line duty if there is an injury

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Gauthier
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury
Curry

That would be one tough team to play against. The size and hitting ability would be unmatched.
Assuming you left out an extra forward and defenseman, I think that team is over the cap.

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:15 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pensown View Post
I would like:

Trade Dupuis and Godard
Sign Bertuzzi(1.5 for 1 year) and Gauthier(2mil for 2-3year)
Trade for Ponikarovsky

Bertuzzi, Gauthier, Poni, and Rupp would add a lot of size and strength around the penguins core.

Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin
Poni-Malkin-Bertuzzi Enough size and grit on the top 2 lines; we do not need an enforcer besides Rupp.
Cooke-Staal-Kennedy Perfect 3rd line maybe the best in the league
Talbot-Rupp-Adams Perfect 4th line skill, speed, hitting ability, and Talbot can fill in top 2 line duty if there is an injury

Gonchar-Orpik
Letang-Gauthier
Goligoski-Eaton

Fleury
Curry

That would be one tough team to play against. The size and hitting ability would be unmatched.
I know that your goal is to get size and everything but a few thigns you should keep in mind.

1. Bertuzzi's physical game hasn't been the same since the Steve Moore incident. Really don't want a guy like him on the Pens.

2. Gauthier has been absolutely awful since the clutch and grab era ended so this is just a terrible signing for 2M dollars. Maybe the worst idea on this board yet. Sign a guy like Seidenberg for around the same price who has actually been effective.

3. I like the Poni acquisition but you want it for the wrong reason. Poni does not use his size effectively at all. He's not in the least bit physical. But I still think he and Malkin would have good chemistry together.

Just not a fan of the first two ideas.

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:24 PM
  #121
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I'll defend the Bertuzzi idea a bit.

His physical game isn't what it used to be, his overall game isn't what it used to be. I don't think it has anything to do with the Steve Moore incident. I think it has everything to do with age and injuries, but that doesn't mean he can't be an extremely effective player. He's still got great size and strength and some of the best hands in the game.

His best years may be behind him, but so are Guerin's. If he can be a 20 goal, 50 point winger, I think he'd be a tremendous bargain.

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:24 PM
  #122
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Bertuzzi would just be another Recchi/Leclair/Sydor situation.

Gauthier is through.

I'd really like the Pens to add Seidenberg, but coming off such a great season, I doubt they can afford him.

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:35 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectraljulian View Post
Bertuzzi would just be another Recchi/Leclair/Sydor situation.
But not a Guerin/Gill/Conklin situation?

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Old
07-02-2009, 09:36 PM
  #124
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jmo, I wouldn't want Bertuzzi for free.


Last edited by td_ice: 07-02-2009 at 09:45 PM.
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Old
07-02-2009, 09:43 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
But not a Guerin/Gill/Conklin situation?
Maybe.

He's higher risk/higher reward than guys like Pyatt or Grier. With them you know you'll get 15-20 goals.

Bertuzzi you'll get 10-30 goals.


He's a better option than Kotalik though, because he contributes in more ways than just goalscoring, which is important in DB's system.

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