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Blues interested in Beauchemin, M. Schneider

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Old
07-02-2009, 08:53 AM
  #1
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Blues interested in Beauchemin, M. Schneider

Per Strickland. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/

Beauchemin is towards the top and Schneider is towards the bottom.

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07-02-2009, 09:30 AM
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Beauchemin would be a decent pickup, but I think he wants more than he's worth.

No to Schneider, he's 40 years old. We already have a vet leader in Tkachuk.

We are kind of jammed at D though - we've got 6-8 D depending on whether Brewer's ready and Piet makes the jump. I'm not too worried about that puck-moving D, I think EJ and possibly Piet will make a huge difference.

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07-02-2009, 10:09 AM
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Nein, danke... to both.

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07-02-2009, 12:44 PM
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I keep wondering why there is this constant call to add another puck-moving defenseman. The Blues don't need one. Last I remember Colaiacovo ain't no slouch.

If anything, the Blues need a stay-at-home type of d-man, like McKee, but cheaper and I think they also need one more forward; someone with some size and decent-enough hockey brains.

1) Stay-at-home defenseman

2) Large forward

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07-02-2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
I keep wondering why there is this constant call to add another puck-moving defenseman. The Blues don't need one. Last I remember Colaiacovo ain't no slouch.

If anything, the Blues need a stay-at-home type of d-man, like McKee, but cheaper and I think they also need one more forward; someone with some size and decent-enough hockey brains.

1) Stay-at-home defenseman

2) Large forward
1) We have Jackman, Polak, Brewer, Weaver and Strachan as "stay at home" D men.
We have EJ, Cola and Pietrangelo as puck movers.
The Stay at homes FAR outnumber the puckmovers.


2) We were dead last in the league in goals from the defense. Even if EJ comes back and notches 15 and Pie has a good year with 5-10, we're still middle of the pack. If we want to compete for the Cup, we need a LOT more puck moving ability than we currently have.

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07-02-2009, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
I keep wondering why there is this constant call to add another puck-moving defenseman. The Blues don't need one. Last I remember Colaiacovo ain't no slouch.

If anything, the Blues need a stay-at-home type of d-man, like McKee, but cheaper and I think they also need one more forward; someone with some size and decent-enough hockey brains.

1) Stay-at-home defenseman

2) Large forward
I can't be the only one who hasn't erased the multiple failed 5-on-3's from the playoffs, it was only a few months back.

EJ, Carlo and I suppose Petro are all "potential" ppqb, puck moving defencemen. My hope is that 1 of the 3 lives up to that as early as next season but our anemic PP was painful to watch. Vancouver didn't need to respect the point shot and we were stuck playing Plinko, trying to find an angle to bounce the puck off of one of our forwards or their defenders.

Needless to say it is my opinion that our lack of that 'puck moving defencemen' was the biggest reason we got swept.

That said, considering the prices that are being tossed around out there, I think its better the Blues pray for no injuries to either of those 3 this season and go with what they got to figure out what they got.

I don't know why we would need to replace McKee, again it seems as if you've forgotten how many games McKee was a healthy scratch, even without EJ/Brewer/Wagner/Strachan and even Polak in the lineup at times.

There's also no saying that the Blues can't resign McKee to a lesser contract should we need to replace him, he is still out there.

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07-02-2009, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
1) We have Jackman, Polak, Brewer, Weaver and Strachan as "stay at home" D men.
We have EJ, Cola and Pietrangelo as puck movers.
The Stay at homes FAR outnumber the puckmovers.


2) We were dead last in the league in goals from the defense. Even if EJ comes back and notches 15 and Pie has a good year with 5-10, we're still middle of the pack. If we want to compete for the Cup, we need a LOT more puck moving ability than we currently have.
1) I totally see what you're saying and I wouldn't think this if Brewer was guaranteed to come back and come back strong. We need his presence. So, in my thinking, Brewer is a non-factor. Of those listed, Jackman and Polak are the only two that I trust in that role, however Polak's the only one with size. Weaver is decent and somewhat trustworthy. Strachan is okay too, has some size, but I don't trust him. Besides, someone's bound to get hurt.

2) Again, we are in agreement that the Blues definitely need more offense from their d-corps. They will get more. Probably not enough for a strong Cup run, but the Blues are not quite there yet anyway. Pietrangelo is pro-ready--whether in Peoria or St. Louis--and will learn his way. He's "young and dumb" now, but he'll smarten up quickly.


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 07-02-2009 at 01:42 PM. Reason: correction
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07-02-2009, 01:33 PM
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puck passing as in pronger


or puck rushing as in Niedermeyer....please clarify puckmoving


because its vague

the D is fine

one more Backes type of power fwd is all thats needed plenty of skill guys already here

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07-02-2009, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
I can't be the only one who hasn't erased the multiple failed 5-on-3's from the playoffs, it was only a few months back.

EJ, Carlo and I suppose Petro are all "potential" ppqb, puck moving defencemen. My hope is that 1 of the 3 lives up to that as early as next season but our anemic PP was painful to watch. Vancouver didn't need to respect the point shot and we were stuck playing Plinko, trying to find an angle to bounce the puck off of one of our forwards or their defenders.

Needless to say it is my opinion that our lack of that 'puck moving defencemen' was the biggest reason we got swept.

That said, considering the prices that are being tossed around out there, I think its better the Blues pray for no injuries to either of those 3 this season and go with what they got to figure out what they got.

I don't know why we would need to replace McKee, again it seems as if you've forgotten how many games McKee was a healthy scratch, even without EJ/Brewer/Wagner/Strachan and even Polak in the lineup at times.

There's also no saying that the Blues can't resign McKee to a lesser contract should we need to replace him, he is still out there.
I knew my idea would not be well received, but that's okay.

Until Brewer is healthy, he does not exist. His hockey future is uncertain. I have not forgotten McKee's limited presence and merely-decent performance, but his presence and leadership will be missed.

We need more leadership on defense.

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07-02-2009, 02:44 PM
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I wonder if these are just tires being kicked by JD to look for a mentor type for Petro. It would certainly help since all our veteran blue-liners are stay-at-home d-men. Not only would they be there to mentor Petro, but it would also relieve some pressure off the kid to succeed right away. Plus, he wouldn't be forced to play the entire 82 games. I would like to only see him play 50-60 games to keep him fresh and healthy.

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07-02-2009, 03:03 PM
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Boston:
Chara - 19
Wideman - 13
Hunwick - 6

Carolina:
Babchuk - 16
Corvo - 14
Pitkanen - 7

Chicago:
Keith/Seabrook - 8
Campbell - 7
Barker - 6

Detroit:
Lidstrom - 16
Rafalski - 10
Kronwall/Lebda - 6

Pittsburgh:
Letang - 10
Goligoski/Gonchar - 6
Eaton - 4

San Jose:
Boyle - 16
Blake - 10
Ehrhoff - 8

Vancouver:
Bieksa - 11
Edler - 10
Ohlund - 6

Washington:
Green - 31
Jurcina/Poti/Morrisonn - 3

----

St. Louis:
Jackman - 4
Colaiacovo/Woywitka - 3
Wagner - 2

Next year:
Johnson - 15?
Pietrangelo - 7?
Colaiacovo - 6? (full season and no injury to rehab for the first time in his career)

Is a UFA defenseman really the answer? If EJ can score 10-15, that supposedly puts the Blues above teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago. I'm not sure that the number of offensive defensemen you have is directly related to the amount of success you have, unless the number is zero.

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07-02-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Is a UFA defenseman really the answer? If EJ can score 10-15, that supposedly puts the Blues above teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago. I'm not sure that the number of offensive defensemen you have is directly related to the amount of success you have, unless the number is zero.
I think it's much more about the total skill and points from your defense as opposed to just their number of goals. Usually guys who are in on more offensive plays end up getting more just by being in the right place at the right time. So there is a correlation.
I'd say you need forecheck-resistant puck control, quick first passing, and accurate stretch passing a lot more than you need straight up goalscoring from your defense.

But it's all incredibly beneficial. Hard and accurate shots from the point change the way a team has to defend against you and gives you a lot more options both on the powerplay and when you're cycling in the zone at even-strength. The Blues forwards have such good hands, they deserve defense that can give them put-away rebounds. Too many of the Blues' losses can be traced to a lack of second chances.

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07-02-2009, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ace2008 View Post
puck passing as in pronger
or puck rushing as in Niedermeyer....please clarify puckmoving
because its vague
the D is fine
one more Backes type of power fwd is all thats needed plenty of skill guys already here
Agreed, it's vague. Colaiacovo is a puck rusher. EJ can do both, but is more adept at passing. Pietrangelo is similar to EJ it seems, but we'll see just what type of player he is this coming season.

And I also agree that we need another large forward/power forward type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
I wonder if these are just tires being kicked by JD to look for a mentor type for Petro. It would certainly help since all our veteran blue-liners are stay-at-home d-men. Not only would they be there to mentor Petro, but it would also relieve some pressure off the kid to succeed right away. Plus, he wouldn't be forced to play the entire 82 games. I would like to only see him play 50-60 games to keep him fresh and healthy.
EJ, Cola and Petro are all supposedly puck-passing and/or puck-rushing d-men. That is exactly half of the d-corps. I am counting on Petro to play most of the season in St. Louis, but I am not expecting him to be a wunderkind in his 1st season.

That leaves Jackman, Pol'ak, Weaver and Strachan to fill the other half. If Brewer comes back healthy, then this whole scenario immediately changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
...Is a UFA defenseman really the answer? If EJ can score 10-15, that supposedly puts the Blues above teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago. I'm not sure that the number of offensive defensemen you have is directly related to the amount of success you have, unless the number is zero.
Yup! Last season the Blues had exactly one (1) offensive-d-man; Colaiacovo. That's it. And, while Cola is talented, he needs help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
...I'd say you need forecheck-resistant puck control, quick first passing, and accurate stretch passing a lot more than you need straight up goalscoring from your defense....
That's right. A transition game is what the Blues lacked.

And on the PP it was all plinky-tic tac toe-no shot.

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07-02-2009, 05:03 PM
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I really think with the return of EJ, that he will be able to fill the puck moving/rushing void we had last year. I truly believe that he will have a spectacular season with the work he has put in rehabbing and now this summer. He has a great shot, can rush the puck up the ice, and is a great passer. I remember his rookie season when we had more of an umbrella PP where he had the bomb from the middle with Kariya feeding him one timers from the right and Boyes on the left with a big body in front. The only reason why I would like the Blues to sign a Zubov or Schnieder is due to the fact that I do not believe Petro is ready yet, and if we can give him another year to develop, we should. Don't get me wrong, if Petro has a great camp and shows improvement in both strength and determination, then why not have him play 50 or more games. Injuries happen, it's just a part of the game, so you need to have depth to your roster.

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07-02-2009, 05:32 PM
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Because of Brewer's uncertain future, I think JD & co will wait until later in the summer to fully assess and address potential defensive needs.

Eric Brewer means a lot to anything the Blues do on D. I think it all hinges on him and it sux. I'll bet you anything that they are scrambling hard to figure what's going on with Brewer's back.

EDIT: This is from The Asylum. I got curious to see if JR addressed Brewer at all and found this exchange.

bloop91:
"JR. What are our real chances of getting Schneider and how is Brewer coming along.
Thanks for your tme"

Jeremy Rutherford:
"There's always a chance with Schneider, especially if he's looking for a one-year deal. That's probably all the Blues are interested in.

I spoke with Brewer about three weeks ago and he was excited to get his rehab started. A few days ago, JD told me that everything was fine with Brewer. JD hadn't heard of any setbacks."


--------------------------

Okay...so, we'll see how the rehab goes. I'm still betting that JD waits for an update on that further along in the rehab. Heck, according to this blurb, Brewer may already be in rehab.


Last edited by ChicagoBlues: 07-02-2009 at 05:43 PM. Reason: added something
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Old
07-02-2009, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Boston:
.
.
.

Vancouver:
Bieksa - 11
Edler - 10
Ohlund - 6

Washington:
Green - 31
Jurcina/Poti/Morrisonn - 3

----

St. Louis:
Jackman - 4
Colaiacovo/Woywitka - 3
Wagner - 2
This just reminded me of how awesome Green was... geez. Anyway I think it helps to Offensive D. I think Johnson could score 20 being optomistic. This also gets me excited for Rundbland maybe even Pie. It would be pretty sweet to have a D-man who could score 30+!!!

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07-02-2009, 10:23 PM
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I would definitely take Beauchemin.

Schneider, not so much. EJ + Carlo on the 1st PP unit, and Pietrangelo + Beauchemin on the 2nd unit? But then you'd have 4 extra guys, 2 spots. You have Jackman and Polak, who will start. Weaver as the 7th man. But what do you do when Brewer comes back? Can't bench the Captain.

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07-02-2009, 10:53 PM
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I would definitely take Beauchemin.

Schneider, not so much. EJ + Carlo on the 1st PP unit, and Pietrangelo + Beauchemin on the 2nd unit? But then you'd have 4 extra guys, 2 spots. You have Jackman and Polak, who will start. Weaver as the 7th man. But what do you do when Brewer comes back? Can't bench the Captain.
I really don't want them to sign Beauchemin. Not because I don't like him as a player but because I think he may be looking at a longer term. With the D-men we have coming up in our system, I don't want to have someone blocking them. I would much rather have Schneider or Zubov on a 1-year deal.

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07-02-2009, 11:49 PM
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I really don't want them to sign Beauchemin. Not because I don't like him as a player but because I think he may be looking at a longer term. With the D-men we have coming up in our system, I don't want to have someone blocking them. I would much rather have Schneider or Zubov on a 1-year deal.
Exactly how I feel. I really like Beauchemin but I just don't see him as a very good fit for the Blues at this point in time. I'd prefer Zubov or Schneider, in that order. Both are offensive guys. Both are coming off injuries which will likely reduce their price. Both have shown mentoring/leadership abilities. Both are over 35 and thus can be offered a one-year incentive laden contract. With their age and recent injury history, a 1 year contract with bonuses based on games played makes a lot of sense. Zubov's a little younger and is a little better defensively IMO so that's who I'd prefer but I'd be fine with either. Beauchemin will likely demand a long term contract for significant $$. He'd be a great add if the Blues didn't already have Brewer and Jackman.

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07-02-2009, 11:55 PM
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Exactly how I feel. I really like Beauchemin but I just don't see him as a very good fit for the Blues at this point in time. I'd prefer Zubov or Schneider, in that order. Both are offensive guys. Both are coming off injuries which will likely reduce their price. Both have shown mentoring/leadership abilities. Both are over 35 and thus can be offered a one-year incentive laden contract. With their age and recent injury history, a 1 year contract with bonuses based on games played makes a lot of sense. Zubov's a little younger and is a little better defensively IMO so that's who I'd prefer but I'd be fine with either. Beauchemin will likely demand a long term contract for significant $$. He'd be a great add if the Blues didn't already have Brewer and Jackman.
Where have you been lately? We have very similar visions of this team. Zubov would be my first option as well. I just don't think you can go wrong with offering a veteran an incentive based 1-year deal. Hopefully they can get him signed. Get it done JD!

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07-03-2009, 01:41 AM
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Of the two I would much rather have Schneider. He is a polished vet that still has some decent wheels (not great, but decent). He is more effective at opening up a play then Beauchemin by himself. I know here on Hf everyone always wants the younger player, but in this situation . . . . . . why? Schneider is a fine dman and we don't want either of these guys long term because we have our own guys coming up. What we need is a guy to play well this year and the better player is Schneider.

Beauchemin is overated. The guy really proved nothing without having one of Pronger or Niedermayer on his line. We do not have a dman of that calibre to put with him. Beauch is more of a compliment player.

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07-03-2009, 02:44 AM
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I want Zubov or Schniender in that order.

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07-03-2009, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Is a UFA defenseman really the answer? If EJ can score 10-15, that supposedly puts the Blues above teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago. I'm not sure that the number of offensive defensemen you have is directly related to the amount of success you have, unless the number is zero.
We don't have the offense of a Pittsburgh or Chicago yet. We proved last year we need some puck movers in the back. Could make do what we have...maybe. But I myself would rather add another one. Petro is no guarntee to stay, even though I think he will, so you have to plan accourdingly.

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07-03-2009, 03:56 AM
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OK, assume that the Blues are able to sign one of Beauchemin or Schneider. What does the defensive roster look like after training camp? (I'll assume its a one year contract for the sake of argument.)

Do the Blues stop trying to get Polak re-signed? (I'll be very very surprised if an offer sheet outside the auto-match ballpark arrives....or really, any offer sheet.)

Also, I think the fretting about Brewer is probably over-done. The nerve regeneration for full sensation in his foot is a slow process, but also not one that is really career threatening. I expect him to be able to participate in camp. Perhaps he will be a bit later than that, but again for argument's sake let's say Brewer is good to go.

In no particular order:
1) EJ
2) Brewer
3) Jackman
4) Colaiacovo
5) Weaver
6) Polak
7) Beauchemin or Schneider
8) Pietrangelo

Others
9) Junland
10) Cole
11) Strachan
12) Wagner (really starting to reach here)

Could Polak conceivably start the season in Peoria? If not, who of those top 8 would be off the roster? By current play level, its probably Pietrangelo...but he's a special case and returning him to junior hockey is just not looking smart. I think he's destined to be in that 7th spot (playing time meted out and rotating scratching with other players).

Its also possible the Blues would then make a deal to move someone...although its probably better to put someone in Peoria for the inevitable injuries.

I like the idea of creating competition for the spots. I think that only helps the club. I also like the higher quality reserves being available. (And we just bought out McKee....wow.) It looks like possibly Colaiacovo would be the odd man out, if he's playing below Beauchemin. Its like Toronto all over again.

I've had this sense that Pietrangelo is "dealable", if the right opportunity came along. What is that opportunity? I'm not sure. But I'm also not at all sure how this settles out. Of course, if Brewer is NOT able to play or at a good enough level to be a regular in the rotation, things clear up a bit. But then that begs the question as to why McKee would have been bought out prior to actually identifying an offensive defenseman to replace him.

Going into camp this season in both the forward and defenseman areas, there are more good players than there are spots. Guys like Eller, Palushaj, King, Janssen....in past seasons they might all have made the team. Definitely guys are going to start the year in the AHL that would usually be playing or at least on the NHL roster.

Should be great to see how it develops. I can't wait to see how this team is forged and what the lines/pairings turn out to be.

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07-03-2009, 04:44 AM
  #25
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I think Weaver would be the odd man left out, at least thats what I would do.

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