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Scuderi to LA Kings, 3yr x 3.4M

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Old
07-02-2009, 05:34 PM
  #176
dbhinla
 
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Hello all,

My question is were does this leave Hickey and Teubert?

Doughty
O'Donald
JJ
Scuderi

Greene, Harold and Quincey were ALL very servicable low cost players they seem pushed out and what else is still missing? A quarterback, Hickey seems to fit that mold but we just spent $13M on a 3rd line defenseman or is O'Donald pushed out? And why?

I at least hope the deal is front loaded.

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07-02-2009, 05:36 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Hello all,

My question is were does this leave Hickey and Teubert?

Doughty
O'Donald
JJ
Scuderi

Greene, Harold and Quincey were ALL very servicable low cost players they seem pushed out and what else is still missing? A quarterback, Hickey seems to fit that mold but we just spent $13M on a 3rd line defenseman or is O'Donald pushed out? And why?

I at least hope the deal is front loaded.
This next season is O'Donnell's swan song, that's one of the main reasons we had to go out and get a Scuderi.

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07-02-2009, 05:37 PM
  #178
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The Odie replacement

it is interesting reading this thread, because except for the Stanley Cup, a lot of this discussion could be about Odie when he left the Kings the first time. Interestingly enough, Odie became a better defenceman when he learned to play within his limitations and his game just got better as he got older because he understood the game better and better every year.

Dmen take a long time to develop, and it seems that the defensive guys take longest to figure it out. With the way that the game is being played now and the conditioning that players go through, a defensive dman at 31 is probably just entering his prime.

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07-02-2009, 05:37 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Hello all,

My question is were does this leave Hickey and Teubert?

Doughty
O'Donald
JJ
Scuderi

Greene, Harold and Quincey were ALL very servicable low cost players they seem pushed out and what else is still missing? A quarterback, Hickey seems to fit that mold but we just spent $13M on a 3rd line defenseman or is O'Donald pushed out? And why?

I at least hope the deal is front loaded.
It leaves Hickey and Teubert more time to develop properly.

As far as those guys being pushed out the only one that has to worry is Harrold. Greene wears the A and gives 110% every night and Quincey is a huge part of the PP. As far as a qb goes look for Doughty, Quincey and JJ to assume that role.

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07-02-2009, 05:40 PM
  #180
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Surprising to see him get paid this much by the Kings. So is it officially bye-bye time for JJ?

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07-02-2009, 05:43 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
Surprising to see him get paid this much by the Kings. So is it officially bye-bye time for JJ?
I'm anticipating trade that includes JJ+<_____> for an offensive player.

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07-02-2009, 05:44 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
I love the move. This means Gauthier won't be back and OD doesn't have to eat up 20 minutes.

Scuderi/Doughty
JJ/Greene
Quincey/OD

Ex. Drewiskie
Yeah me too! OD plays less minutes, we'll win the Stanley Cup for sure!

Who needs top tier goal scorers? We'll just have all five players lie down in front of the net and win all 80 games in a 0-0 shootout.

Oops! wait we canít beat ANYONE in a shootout.

/sarcasm

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07-02-2009, 05:49 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by JMFJ 3 View Post
This next season is O'Donnell's swan song, that's one of the main reasons we had to go out and get a Scuderi.
I sure you are right but I regret the fact we are fazing out some lower cost serviceable players. Yes I said serviceable twice (misspelled it once). Let's face it DTs history with FA includes overspending on Cloutier, Pressing, and Blake.

Edit: DT? Have I been asleep ... DL

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07-02-2009, 05:54 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
I sure you are right but I regret the fact we are fazing out some lower cost serviceable players. Yes I said serviceable twice (misspelled it once). Let's face it DTs history with FA includes overspending on Cloutier, Pressing, and Blake.

Edit: DT? Have I been asleep ... DL
which low cost serviceable players are being phased out?

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Old
07-02-2009, 05:54 PM
  #185
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love this signing for numerous reasons.

- the guy may have got into the pro's at a later age, but since he got here he has continuosly improved. He is at his prime age, has just won a Cup, was an unwritten hero in the playoffs. He has good size, even if he isn't overly tall.

- A lot a people were against the Greene trade but I don't think there are many Kings fans that don't love what he brings, this guy is a Greene clone, a warrior and an on ice leader. The two paired together should be one of the best shut down tandems in the league.

- Gives O'Donnell less minutes, keeping him fresher and more effective.

- Lets the rook's be rooks and develop in the AHL properly. If one does pull a Doughty we can always trade a roster player. Every team seems to want a d'man come deadline time.

- I love Quincey and I hope he continues his uprising, but he also had surgery over summer and may not be as ready to go as he usually would or he may not play as well. With Scuderi we know what we have.

- Doughty is our savior, but he is also a sophmore, and not to jinx him but there have been many of players who took a step back in year two.

- Length of contract is perfect. SOD is in possibly his last year, JJ is rumored to go everywhere but here, and the only major signingover that time will be Frolov. Yes Doughty will get his money is 3 more years but Handzus and Preissing plus both buy-outs will be ofthe books.

Very solid signing, very happy fan

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07-02-2009, 05:57 PM
  #186
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I do agree it's a bit much, but if the guy can make Hall Gill into the other half of your top defensive tandem, and you can win a cup, then the man deserves some kudos.

Just watch how Gill does this next year without Scuderi.

Cup experience seems to be a valuable commodity these days with UFA's too.

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07-02-2009, 06:08 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
which low cost serviceable players are being phased out?
Don't know but I don't believe we signed Peter Scuderi so we could trade JJ, just MHO. Doughty, Johnson and Scuderi all have roster spots. I guess you could argue that Hickey needs another year in the minors but you can argue the reverse just as well. 2 World Juniors and 4th overall pick. That leaves Greene and O'Donald in particular, religated to lesser roles.

I hope this guy plays well for us but as I think you can tell I'm just not a Deano appologist. Every year he claims to have made a run at the top tier players and every year he has a long winded excuse why we fell short in those negotiations. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the top players would rather sign with the Red Wings and Rangers but until he steps up and does something bold that's not going to change.

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07-02-2009, 06:16 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Yeah me too! OD plays less minutes, we'll win the Stanley Cup for sure!

Who needs top tier goal scorers? We'll just have all five players lie down in front of the net and win all 80 games in a 0-0 shootout.

Oops! wait we canít beat ANYONE in a shootout.

/sarcasm
im afraid your sarcasm on the shootout subject is a bit dated, when we let Labarbera go and quick and Ersberg were in net for shootouts we actually improved a great deal .

I dont foresee JJ going anywhere right now. He's to much apart of our core as it is now, i think Deano will give him more time just as so long jack wants to stay and doesnt ask for a ridiculous amount. Deano wont voluntarily trade him but he will if he has no other choice.

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07-02-2009, 06:18 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Don't know but I don't believe we signed Peter Scuderi so we could trade JJ, just MHO. Doughty, Johnson and Scuderi all have roster spots. I guess you could argue that Hickey needs another year in the minors but you can argue the reverse just as well. 2 World Juniors and 4th overall pick. That leaves Greene and O'Donald in particular, religated to lesser roles.

I hope this guy plays well for us but as I think you can tell I'm just not a Deano appologist. Every year he claims to have made a run at the top tier players and every year he has a long winded excuse why we fell short in those negotiations. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the top players would rather sign with the Red Wings and Rangers but until he steps up and does something bold that's not going to change.
Scuderi was signed for multiple reasons. Cup winner who shows up every night. Veteran guy to replace OD after next year. This move isnt relegating Greene or OD to lesser rolls. It gives OD more of a chance to stay fresh. It keeps guys like Harrold to the 7th spot.

This moves solidifes the defense and gives the team more leeway in letting Hickey, Teubert and Voynov to develop properly instead of rushing them to the NHL. If those guys show up in camp and play well and force management to make decisions in the end its good for them team as it shows they have depth at the position. Something theyve lacked for a while.

Guys sign with the Wings because of the how the team is and has been run for years. Theyve got the right attitude instilled there and thats what DL is trying to do here. People seem to forget how bad the Wings were before Holland took over and helped change things.

Guys sign with the Rangers because of how much money they throw around. Look at the deals they gave to Gomez, Drury, Redden etc. Not smart contracts. Id rather DL be smart about contracts than hand out deals like that. If other teams are willing to overpay to acquire big names that arent going to push the team over the top good for them. Its why some teams are perpetually stuck and spinning their wheels.

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07-02-2009, 06:25 PM
  #190
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I don't understand whats so good aout Scuderi?

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07-02-2009, 06:25 PM
  #191
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So are Gill and Scuderi traitors now for leaving the Pens, just like Hossa was?

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07-02-2009, 06:26 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by AjaxPitt View Post
I do agree it's a bit much, but if the guy can make Hall Gill into the other half of your top defensive tandem, and you can win a cup, then the man deserves some kudos.

Just watch how Gill does this next year without Scuderi.

Cup experience seems to be a valuable commodity these days with UFA's too.
In Scuderi's defense he was second in minutes for Pitt defensemen during the playoffs. Barely, but still. And ... the Kings have young talent but you still have to learn HOW to win. Having veterans like Scuderi and O'Donald in the locker room does matter. Also two young goaltenders in Quick and Bernier.

Having said all that, this signing scares absolutely no one around the league. I hope the team improves but I'm not rushing to go buy my 12 game pack.

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07-02-2009, 06:27 PM
  #193
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As per TSN...shouldn't it say 4 years for 3.4M a piece?

http://tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=11850

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07-02-2009, 06:28 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Scuderi was signed for multiple reasons. Cup winner who shows up every night. Veteran guy to replace OD after next year. This move isnt relegating Greene or OD to lesser rolls. It gives OD more of a chance to stay fresh. It keeps guys like Harrold to the 7th spot.

This moves solidifes the defense and gives the team more leeway in letting Hickey, Teubert and Voynov to develop properly instead of rushing them to the NHL. If those guys show up in camp and play well and force management to make decisions in the end its good for them team as it shows they have depth at the position. Something theyve lacked for a while.

Guys sign with the Wings because of the how the team is and has been run for years. Theyve got the right attitude instilled there and thats what DL is trying to do here. People seem to forget how bad the Wings were before Holland took over and helped change things.
Guys sign with the Rangers because of how much money they throw around. Look at the deals they gave to Gomez, Drury, Redden etc. Not smart contracts. Id rather DL be smart about contracts than hand out deals like that. If other teams are willing to overpay to acquire big names that arent going to push the team over the top good for them. Its why some teams are perpetually stuck and spinning their wheels.
Holland wasn't the GM until '98. It was Jimmy Devellano who turned it around. He is now semi-retired but still holds a title in the organization and is still one of the major contributors in Detroit's decisions.

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07-02-2009, 06:39 PM
  #195
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Scuderi is a defensive specialist, while Johnson is an offensive specialist, so this, in no way, be read as an indication that Johnson will be dealt. As I pointed out earlier, including Johnson and Scuderi, the Kings have 3 offensive defensemen and 3 defensive defensemen, so the balance is perfect. Trade Johnson and the balance is off again.

As for Hickey, Lombardi would like him to play a year in the AHL first. If he surprises in camp and is ready for the NHL, then it makes it almost a given that Johnson would be traded. As for Teubert, he's at least a year away, probably two, at which point O'Donnell will be gone.

Finally, one has to always keep in mind injuries. Chances are that, at any given time, at least one defenseman will be injured. That means that everyone in your top-7 (not just top-6) will get significant playing time. So, there's still room for a rookie (ex. Hickey, Drewiskie, Voinov) this upcoming season. If two defensemen are injured at once, then there's room for two rookies. If, instead, you just set aside a spot for a rookie defenseman, then you'll likely be playing with two rookie defensemen for most of the season (because of one injury) and three at some point (because of two injuries). That's usually not a course that leads to the playoffs. Instead, fill up your top-6 with players that you know can play in the NHL now (as Lombardi has done) and let the rookies either play themselves into the lineup or play when inevitable injuries occur.

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07-02-2009, 06:39 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Scuderi was signed for multiple reasons. Cup winner who shows up every night. Veteran guy to replace OD after next year. This move isnt relegating Greene or OD to lesser rolls. It gives OD more of a chance to stay fresh. It keeps guys like Harrold to the 7th spot.

This moves solidifes the defense and gives the team more leeway in letting Hickey, Teubert and Voynov to develop properly instead of rushing them to the NHL. If those guys show up in camp and play well and force management to make decisions in the end its good for them team as it shows they have depth at the position. Something theyve lacked for a while.

Guys sign with the Wings because of the how the team is and has been run for years. Theyve got the right attitude instilled there and thats what DL is trying to do here. People seem to forget how bad the Wings were before Holland took over and helped change things.

Guys sign with the Rangers because of how much money they throw around. Look at the deals they gave to Gomez, Drury, Redden etc. Not smart contracts. Id rather DL be smart about contracts than hand out deals like that. If other teams are willing to overpay to acquire big names that arent going to push the team over the top good for them. Its why some teams are perpetually stuck and spinning their wheels.
Guys sign with the Wings because they're the Wings. Just like the Lakers or Yankees.

I agree with you on Holland but saying DL is trying to do what Holland did, everyone is trying to do what he did, only a few succeed.

Look at the talent that has disappeared from this team over the last several years. We've been in a 3 year rebuilding plan for 8 years. Dump all your high salaried (but talented and marketable) players and become so bad you accumulate high draft picks. My Grandmother could have come up with that strategy.

If this current roster improves and we make the playoffs and now we finally sign a tier one player then he's a genius, but that's a long ways off. If he keeps rolling over good veteran players and going back to the lottery then he's the Clippers.

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07-02-2009, 06:39 PM
  #197
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Holland wasn't the GM until '98. It was Jimmy Devellano who turned it around. He is now semi-retired but still holds a title in the organization and is still one of the major contributors in Detroit's decisions.
Holland was the assistant GM for a number of years before that and his actions have played the biggest role in instilling that winning attitude there since being named GM. The majority of their success has come since Holland took over.

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07-02-2009, 06:47 PM
  #198
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Holland was the assistant GM for a number of years before that and his actions have played the biggest role in instilling that winning attitude there since being named GM. The majority of their success has come since Holland took over.
I'm not trying to downplay the job he's done since becoming GM, but in the early-mid 90's he was playing the same sort of role that Yzerman is now, contributing but really just being groomed to become the GM. The winning truly started with Jimmy D, drafting by Neil Smith, and a focus on two-way play by Scotty Bowman (who really single-handedly turned over the roster in '97 when the won their first cup). Holland has done a spectacular job of not only maintaining, but growing the reputation of the organization, but it's mis-placed to say that he started it and they were bad before he took over. I think they only missed the playoffs once in the 10 or so years before Holland took over, won the division and the conference multiple times, and actually set the record for wins in a season in '96.

Also Holland has admitted that he has never had any real say in anything the Wings do during the draft, that's what Jim Nill does. He believes what good are scouts if you don't trust them.


Last edited by jose2hot: 07-02-2009 at 06:53 PM.
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07-02-2009, 06:50 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Guys sign with the Wings because they're the Wings. Just like the Lakers or Yankees.

I agree with you on Holland but saying DL is trying to do what Holland did, everyone is trying to do what he did, only a few succeed.

Look at the talent that has disappeared from this team over the last several years. We've been in a 3 year rebuilding plan for 8 years. Dump all your high salaried (but talented and marketable) players and become so bad you accumulate high draft picks. My Grandmother could have come up with that strategy.

If this current roster improves and we make the playoffs and now we finally sign a tier one player then he's a genius, but that's a long ways off. If he keeps rolling over good veteran players and going back to the lottery then he's the Clippers.
Which high salaried talented and marketable players has he dumped? Visnovsky? Demitra? Guys that led the Kings nowhere in their times here? This is a process that should have been started when Taylor was in charge but kept being put off until there was no other choice. Id rather deal with a few years like this to see this team become better off in the long run rather than the patchwork that was being done and some still want to see done. Teams like Detroit, Colorado, NJ were all built through the draft first and they all went through worse years than the Kings have. They didnt start adding free agents until their teams were built from within. The Kings arent at that stage yet.

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07-02-2009, 06:53 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by dbhinla View Post
Guys sign with the Wings because they're the Wings. Just like the Lakers or Yankees.
The Wings weren't always "The Wings"

1966-67 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1967-68 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1968-69 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1969-70 Detroit Lost in round 1
1970-71 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1971-72 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1972-73 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1973-74 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1974-75 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1975-76 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1976-77 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1977-78 Detroit Lost in round 2
1978-79 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1979-80 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1980-81 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1981-82 Detroit Missed Playoffs
1982-83 Detroit Missed Playoffs

That's a whole lot of suck. Kings' fans should really keep that in mind.

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